That didn't make a lot of sense. I don't see where anybody has
suggested taking from the retired or disabled and giving to the rich. I
don't see where anybody has suggested giving anything to the rich. I
don't see anybody worshipping the rich, either.I do see respect
for private property rights. I see the desire for people to have the freedom to
engage in fair and honest enterprise on a voluntary basis.You
shouldn't mistake the coveting of the property of others for charity,
because it isn't charity. Charity is when you give of yourself. It
isn't when you hold a gun to the head of someone else to confiscate their
property to give to someone else. That's theft.
Heaven help us!Only in Utah will you see the retired and disabled
dehumanized and demeaned. Only by repubs will you see the demand for their hard
earned benefits to be redistributed to the rich.Only in Utah will you see
the rich worshipped and the poor humiliated. You see so many defend the romneys
of our country at the expense of Joe Sixpack.I fear that our time of
probation is nearing an end. Just as the nephites, we are ripening for
destruction. Are we living our baptismal covenants? I think not!Only
heaven can save us. How much longer can our state endure such great wickedness,
greed, and selfishness???
Study: Rich get a lot richer, outpace middle class' - By Andrew Taylor - AP
- 10/26/11 'It finds that after-tax income for the top 1
percent of U.S. households almost tripled, up 275 percent, from 1979 to
2007.'Aw.Poor rich guys!GOP rivals turn
Romney’s jobs record against him' - By Kasie Hunt - AP - Published by
DSnews - 01/09/2012 'A separate AP analysis found that at least
4,000 workers lost their jobs at 45 companies bought by Bain...' –
@wrz"...Corporations don't pay taxes. Only people pay
taxes...".So, corporations aren't people after all...Inspite of what romney used as a failed talking point during his failed
@one old man"wrz -- Thank you for proving my point when you respond to
my comment about repeating lies with this: 'That factoid you cite has been
checked out and shown to be true by none other than R. Limbaugh. S. Hannity and
R. Madcow.'"Actually, old man, you're right. Obama
won't accomplish that threshold until sometime in the first year of his
current term. And he will likely double that by the end of his second term in
office... and triple it in his third term when the debt is somewhere in the
realm of $25 trillion.
How many of those 70 million who pay not income taxes are children who
don't earn a dime?-----------John Charity Spring
says:"... far too many of the younger generation has adopted the
entitlement attitude of the left-wing. They expect their country to give all to
them, while they give nothing in return."---Why
don't you do a little research before you make such sweeping
generalizations. We contribute every bit as much to our country as do you
conservatives. And then you wonder why we don't trust you? You need to
pull the giant sequoia out of your own eye before picking the speck of dust out
of other's eyes.
Mike,I suggest you read up on Romney's investments. I recommend
David Stockman's article in Newsweek, "Mitt Romney: The Great
Deformer." It will clear up some of the numbers you listed, as well as the
methods Bain used in its vulture capitalist game. Staples, for instance, only
became a huge success long after Bain took a very small gain and got out. And of
those 89,000 employees you cite, 40,000 are part-timers, and Staples put
hundreds of individually owned office supply stores out of business. Net gain?
@Open Minded Mormon:"How about we stop subsidizing Corportaions making
$Billions in PROFITS, before we start asking for your $25...?"That's a good idea. Since corporations add any tax they pay to the
product/service they produce, even the vary poor who pay no income tax will, in
effect, be paying a tax when they buy the product/service. Open Minded,
you're brilliant!@one old man:"Could it be that some
people DELIBERATELY refuse to check truthfulness because they are not interested
in being truthful? Does deliberately repeating a lie make the one who repeats it
a liar?"That factoid you cite has been checked out and shown to
be true by none other than R. Limbaugh. S. Hannity and R. Madcow.@Mike Richards:"If nothing else, this letter should point how how
incomprehensible the debt is. It should show the Left that there is not enough
money in America to pay down that debt and still have viable businesses."That's right, Mike. We are dead as a nation and don't know
it. The only question remaining is, how long before the inevitable... a total
collapse of our economy.
Great idea. How about we make taxes voluntary, sort of like tithing. The
government can tell us each year how much each person should give according to
income, consumption or happiness derived. Might work.My plan for
eliminating the deficit is that we sell all the public land belonging to the
American people in the states who want to secede from the USA to the highest
bidder. Allowing any nation, corporation, rich person local or foreign to bid.
Maybe we could even sell the states themselves. My guess is that Mexico, one of
the worlds richest nations, would pay a lot to own Texas.
For those who accept Obama's idea that there is a "rich guy" who is
hoarding all the money, why not spend a few minutes and do some homework?How many people are now employed because Mitt Romney invested HIS money
to make THEIR lives better? - Staples has over 89,000 employees.
- Sports authority has over 14,000 employees. - Stage
Stores employs 13,500 people. - Dade (formerly Baxter) employs
5,000. - DDI has 1,700 employees. - Gartner employs
4,400. - Steel Dynamics employs 6,000.All of those
enployees are tax payers.How many of those people would have a job
if Romney and his associates had not rescued those companies? Most of those
companies were either in bankruptcy or headed to bankruptcy. Roughly 145,000
people have a job because Mitt Romney and his associates pooled their money and
did something about businesses that were hurting.Obama wants Mitt
Romney's money. How many jobs has Obama created in the private sector?
If everyone files a 1040 form and pays some income tax, they will
understand that government spending hurts them personally. Killing the goose
that lays the golden eggs will not solve Obama's spending problem.
PaganThese lies again???"Regan tripled the
debt." (Not quite. This is a lie.)"W. Bush doubled the
debt." (Not quite. This is a lie.)"If we are going to
address the concern of debt, the very least we can do is address who adds more
to it."So you then talk about Romney? Why??? He hasn't
added to the national debt. Here is who adds more to it.Reagan 1st term - 733 billionReagan 2nd term - 1.02 trillionReagan total - 1.75 trillionGW Bush first term - 1.94
trillionGW Bush Second term - 3.10 trillionGW Bush total
- 5.04 trillionAnd the BIGGEST DEBT MAKER is... (drum roll)OBAMA 1st term - 5.7 trillionand that is just his first term!Obama has more debt in his first term than anyone else's total!Now you have the truth.
@Open Minded Mormon"2. Republicans keep promising ZERO tax increases
for ANYONE - including the 1% who could pay it and not loose sleep or change
their lavish lifestyles one iota."Actually the Grover Norquist
pledge only deals with federal income taxes and corporate taxes. Other taxes are
free game. That's why Republicans pushed Obama to give up the payroll tax
holiday and let those taxes go up (which Obama conceded to after it became
obvious he only had about half his caucus and some economists with him on
keeping the lower rates). Naturally those are regressive taxes that
disproportionately affect the poor.
To "airnaut" so now you confiscate all the wealth and collapse the
economy because now nowbody has investments.Your ilk seems to think
that the wealthy are like Scrooge McDuck, with a giant vault full of money that
they can go and swim in.The fact is that while Romney may be worth
$20 million, he may only have $100,000 in cash at any given time or less. While
that may seem like a lot to you, that is less than 1% of his wealth that
isn't tied to something else.
There was one suggestion in the comments that we could pay off the debt by
cutting the military. But the military is only 23% of the federal budget, so
completely eliminating defense spending wouldn't even eliminate the annual
deficit. The debt would still grow. And we would have no defense. Not a good
idea.Some have suggested raising taxes on corporations. US corporate
taxes are already the highest among industrialized nations. Strangely enough,
those who suggest this are usually the ones complaining about corporations
shipping jobs overseas. Let me suggest there's a connection between
corporate tax rates and jobs fleeing the country. I will also repeat what has
been said many times: corporations don't pay taxes, only people pay taxes.
When taxes are hiked on corporations, they raise the cost of their goods or
services, and/or cut the pay and benefits to their employees. How does that
solve anything?There was a lament about all the missed taxes due to
the Bush tax cuts. Wrong again. The relationship between taxes and revenue is
nonlinear due to the effect of tax policy on economic activity. Cutting taxes
increases revenue when taxes are too high.
ike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahLet me do the math for you. It
would take 16,000,000 "rich guys", yes, that's right, sixteen
MILLION rich guys. We don't have 16,000,000 rich guys who have $1,000,000
in their "spare change" piggy banks.12:39 p.m. Feb. 1,
2013=========== oronly 64,000 Mitt Romneys
and Paris Hiltons,oronly 16,000 Billionairesor only 80
Bill Gates or Warren Buffet types.andThat's only
individual citizens.What about the Corporations who pay nothing, and even
get Government kick-backs?the money is there, it alwasy has been -
it just keeps collecting more and more at the top,not with the old folks
like you imagine.
If nothing else, this letter should point how how incomprehensible the debt is.
It should show the Left that there is not enough money in America to pay down
that debt and still have viable businesses.It would be great if
government had a solution, but they don't. They're just like many
insurance companies that think that they can underpay those who provide doctors
and hospitals and still have good health care in America. The government thinks
that it can take most or all of the capital needed to build businesses out of
circulation.If 70,000,000 Americans paying $300 extra per year can
only cover the cost of running the government for six days, how will a handful
of "rich guys" support Obama's spending? See for
yourself how many "rich guys paying $1,000,000 MORE in taxes per year it
would take to pay off the $16,000,000,000,000 deficit. Let me do
the math for you. It would take 16,000,000 "rich guys", yes,
that's right, sixteen MILLION rich guys. We don't have 16,000,000
rich guys who have $1,000,000 in their "spare change" piggy banks.
Why is it so difficult for some people to simply check the truth or lack of
truth in a statement before posting it?For example, this blatant lie
popped again here: "OK. Obama added more to the national debt than all
presidents put together from George Washington to George Bush. How's
that?"Could it be that some people DELIBERATELY refuse to check
truthfulness because they are not interested in being truthful? Does
deliberately repeating a lie make the one who repeats it a liar?I
think it does.
While it is a kind effort, it will be wasted until the government learns to cut
spending.For example. In January Congress passed a tax law that
increased taxes to millionairs and billionairs. That tax brought in an
additional $50 billion. That is quite a lot of money. Then, less than 3 weeks
later they passed a bill to spend money on hurricaine Sandy victims. That
spending was more than what was collected in taxes.We see taxes,
then spending of those taxes.If the government wanted to cut its
debt so that the debt ceiling wasn't an issue for a few years they could
take SS and turn it into a pay as you go system, and eliminate the IOUs that
currently are on the SS books.
Now if my wife and I were to pay even $25 per month ($300) per year, and the
rest of the 70 million untaxed citizens were to do the same, it would ring in
some $21 trillion ($300 times 70 million), paying off the known portion of the
national debt in just one year.============ While I
agree that everyone should be putting some skin in the game -- 1.
That will take 1,000 years - not ONE year to come up with that kind of money.2. Republicans keep promising ZERO tax increases for ANYONE - including
the 1% who could pay it and not loose sleep or change their lavish lifestyles
one iota.3. How about we stop subsidizing Corportaions making
$Billions in PROFITS, before we start asking for your $25...?
@ugottabkidn:"I will accept your offer only after all loopholes are
closed for corporations..."You silly... Corporations don't
pay taxes. Only people pay taxes. Any 'tax' a corporation (or any
other business combination) pays is merely added to the cost of the
goods/services they manufacture/provide which means the consumer effectively
pays the tax. Corporate loopholes mean you're not paying as much for stuff
you buy from corporations.@Pagan:"Obama? x4 times. If we
are going to address the concern of debt, the very least we can do is address
who adds more to it."OK. Obama added more to the national debt
than all presidents put together from George Washington to George Bush.
How's that?"Mitt Romney paid zero taxes from 1996-2002 by
using tax shelters like putting his American dollars in Switzerland. Even the
Deseret news reported on this, 1/26/12."Don't blame Mitt.
He merely applied tax law. The same tax law available to you. If you're
not smart enough to take advantage, that'd be your bad.
@John Charity SpringI looked at my W-2 the other day and realized
that even though I barely make the poverty line of wages, my federal taxes were
about twice as much as the refund I got last year, putting me firmly in the 53%.
Maybe it's because I don't get a mortgage deduction since I don't
own a home... or pay a lower rate due to marriage since I'm not married...
or have child tax credits since I don't have kids. So if I'm still
paying income taxes that means that the people who aren't make very little
in wages, are retired seniors, are the unemployed looking for work, or are
somehow benefiting with deductions that wipes out what they owe. Romney won 8/10
states with the highest rates of people not paying income taxes (Obama only won
New Mexico and Florida). Maybe it'd be useful if this tax season everyone
notes their federal income tax (not all taxes) and their eventual tax refund (if
any) and sees if their refund is larger than their federal income taxes. If it
is, then they're a 47%er.
'The $2.5 Trillion tragedy: What America has given up for 10 years of Bush
tax cuts' - By Zaid Jilani – Think Progress – 07/07/11 'While doing so, Bush promised prosperity and growth, but the
nation got neither.
Verle, I will accept your offer only after all loopholes are closed for
corporations, and those enjoying the benefits of living in America while camping
their funds in Swiss bank accounts. Verle you don't take in account the
fact that if SS is your entire income then you are paying a greater percentage
of your income in all taxes, which are numerous. If you were a good Republican
you wouldn't be volunteering to pay because "we don't have a
revenue problem but a spending problem". I'll send one of the party
officers by to set you straight if you like.
Regan tripled the debt.W. Bush, doubled the debt.Obama...has done neither.Regan raised the debt x18 times.W. Bush, x7 times.Obama? x4 times. If we are going to
address the concern of debt, the very least we can do is address who adds more
to it. FYI? Mitt Romney paid zero taxes from 1996-2002 by using tax
shelters like putting his American dollars in Switzerland. Even the Deseret news
reported on this, 1/26/12
First, I appreciate the authors desire to contribute to reducing the deficit but
I wish to point out that the rest of the 70 million may not be so inclined. The
politicians in Washington depend on these 70 million to vote the back into
office so they can continue their profligate ways.Can you imagine
what would happen if only those paying taxes were allowed to vote?
Buford, when you wrote: "The lazy 70 million who don't pay a dime in
taxes need to buck up and start carrying their own weight."Didn't you realize that you were calling the writer of this letter
lazy?May I suggest, Sir, that you are a large part of our national
problem? Until we can quit calling one another names and start looking for wise
and fair solutions, there will be no solution.
It was men like Verle here who worked hard and sacrificed to make this Country
great. The selfish corporations and CEOs of today could learn something here.Perhaps, John "Charity" Spring, there is more than just one very
narrow truth in all of this.What's the saying, "There are
none so blind as those who refuse to see."
A shame really, allowing this poor man to embarrass himself like this. And the
idea is a terrible one. People who don't pay federal income tax pay plenty
of other taxes, including federal taxes.
I think we need more tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. And cut public
services. That will solve our problems!Verle, if we cut
your SS and gave the Koch Bros and Mitt Romney more in tax breaks, then I'm
sure you'll be better off!
Or better yet: stop buying bombs and close all the military bases around the
world. Since when does a national defense call for bases on every corner of the
globe?Also, have a 100% tax on guns and ammo.
Who cares whether the math is wrong? The letter writer is right. The lazy 70
million who don't pay a dime in taxes need to buck up and start carrying
their own weight. Better for them to pay $25 a month than nothing.
Good idea. The only problem is, the current government leaders would not apply
the funds to the debt. It would be mostly used to grow the government leaving
most of the debt in place for future generations to deal with.
I am confident that Mr Solt had good intentions with his letter.It
does help to highlight the magnitude of our debt problem.If we could
only cut his medicare and social security and give more tax breaks to those with
the most, surely we could make a dent. Hey, it's a start.
Mr. Solt, I commend you for your civic mindedness. Thank you.
Apparently Verle is a Republican. His solution, like all those proposed by GOP
candidates, is arithmetic-impaired. Verle, you and your 70 million fellow income
tax escapees would have to donate $25,000 per month to reach that pie-in-the-sky
number he tossed out.But even if Verle's math had been correct,
his solution would have been impossible for some families with low income and
several children, because each of the children would also have to pay that
$25.Still, why not ask the poor to pay more, so that we can allow
those with more money than they know what to do with to accumulate wealth even
faster? The GOP must believe that increasing wealth inequality is the solution
to our problems.
I suggested a couple days ago that US budgetary numbers are too big for the many
Americans to comprehend. I was right. But I am glad this letter doesn't
just assume the government has an infinite supply of money.While the
numbers are off, I still think the deficit would be diminished by more than just
the amount taken in, because when everyone understands the burden of taxes, they
are less likely to vote for frivolous services and more likely to guard the
public money from corruption with more vigor.I appreciate this
writer for not just thinking that someone else will pay for him. I suspect that
our seniors, who have paid for their social security, are more like minded with
Verle than our welfare recipients.
It was men like Verle here who worked hard and sacrificed to make this Country
great. The selfish young people of today could learn something here.Even today, Verle is willing to contribute what little he has for the good of
the nation. Unfortunately, far too many of the younger generation has adopted
the entitlement attitude of the left-wing. They expect their country to give all
to them, while they give nothing in return.We must do as Verle has
said and stop the practice of handing out tax dollars to those too lazy and
slothful to provide for themselves. This process of bankrupting the country must
That's an excellent idea; however, my calculator shows that $300 X
70,000,000 = $21,000,000,000. Nine zeros = billion. Twelve zeros = trillion.
Pretty sure that math doesn't work.... mixing up Trillions with Billions.
Good concept that everyone pays a little at least. As much as leftists like to
disagree with this, you cant take 21B out of peoples hands, without affecting
the economy a little bit. Just imagine the affect of the alleged 80B that we
just stole from the "wealthy" among us, in the name of class envy. The
letter writer probably just unknowingly stumbled onto the exact example or
argument, demonstrating how government spending needs to be cut to really
improve the deficit. Conservatives have known that all along.
You're off by a factor of 1000 - it would only bring in $21 billion. But I
agree that everyone should have some skin in the game.
This really is low of the DN to willingly embarrass one of their readers by
willfully printing a mathematical error of such magnitude. $300 times 70
million is tweinty one thousand million, or $21 billion dollars, not $21
trillion. I'm sure this author was sincere in their intention to solve a
complex problem but the DN editorial staff could have handled this a little
better by just responding back to the author to check their math rather than
publishing their mistake for all too see. Shame on you DN.
Your math is off by a factor of 1000. Your $300 times 70 million equals $21