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Letters: Deficit solution

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  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 10:48 a.m.

    That didn't make a lot of sense. I don't see where anybody has suggested taking from the retired or disabled and giving to the rich. I don't see where anybody has suggested giving anything to the rich. I don't see anybody worshipping the rich, either.

    I do see respect for private property rights. I see the desire for people to have the freedom to engage in fair and honest enterprise on a voluntary basis.

    You shouldn't mistake the coveting of the property of others for charity, because it isn't charity. Charity is when you give of yourself. It isn't when you hold a gun to the head of someone else to confiscate their property to give to someone else. That's theft.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Feb. 2, 2013 2:12 a.m.

    Heaven help us!

    Only in Utah will you see the retired and disabled dehumanized and demeaned. Only by repubs will you see the demand for their hard earned benefits to be redistributed to the rich.
    Only in Utah will you see the rich worshipped and the poor humiliated. You see so many defend the romneys of our country at the expense of Joe Sixpack.

    I fear that our time of probation is nearing an end. Just as the nephites, we are ripening for destruction. Are we living our baptismal covenants? I think not!

    Only heaven can save us. How much longer can our state endure such great wickedness, greed, and selfishness???

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 10:32 p.m.

    Study: Rich get a lot richer, outpace middle class' - By Andrew Taylor - AP - 10/26/11

    'It finds that after-tax income for the top 1 percent of U.S. households almost tripled, up 275 percent, from 1979 to 2007.'

    Aw.

    Poor rich guys!

    GOP rivals turn Romney’s jobs record against him' - By Kasie Hunt - AP - Published by DSnews - 01/09/2012

    'A separate AP analysis found that at least 4,000 workers lost their jobs at 45 companies bought by Bain...' – article

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 10:24 p.m.

    @wrz

    "...Corporations don't pay taxes. Only people pay taxes...".

    So, corporations aren't people after all...

    Inspite of what romney used as a failed talking point during his failed campaign.

    Thank you!

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 9:48 p.m.

    @one old man
    "wrz -- Thank you for proving my point when you respond to my comment about repeating lies with this: 'That factoid you cite has been checked out and shown to be true by none other than R. Limbaugh. S. Hannity and R. Madcow.'"

    Actually, old man, you're right. Obama won't accomplish that threshold until sometime in the first year of his current term. And he will likely double that by the end of his second term in office... and triple it in his third term when the debt is somewhere in the realm of $25 trillion.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 7:34 p.m.

    How many of those 70 million who pay not income taxes are children who don't earn a dime?

    -----------

    John Charity Spring says:

    "... far too many of the younger generation has adopted the entitlement attitude of the left-wing. They expect their country to give all to them, while they give nothing in return."

    ---

    Why don't you do a little research before you make such sweeping generalizations. We contribute every bit as much to our country as do you conservatives. And then you wonder why we don't trust you? You need to pull the giant sequoia out of your own eye before picking the speck of dust out of other's eyes.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    Mike,

    I suggest you read up on Romney's investments. I recommend David Stockman's article in Newsweek, "Mitt Romney: The Great Deformer." It will clear up some of the numbers you listed, as well as the methods Bain used in its vulture capitalist game. Staples, for instance, only became a huge success long after Bain took a very small gain and got out. And of those 89,000 employees you cite, 40,000 are part-timers, and Staples put hundreds of individually owned office supply stores out of business. Net gain? Who knows?

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 4:03 p.m.

    @Open Minded Mormon:
    "How about we stop subsidizing Corportaions making $Billions in PROFITS, before we start asking for your $25...?"

    That's a good idea. Since corporations add any tax they pay to the product/service they produce, even the vary poor who pay no income tax will, in effect, be paying a tax when they buy the product/service. Open Minded, you're brilliant!

    @one old man:
    "Could it be that some people DELIBERATELY refuse to check truthfulness because they are not interested in being truthful? Does deliberately repeating a lie make the one who repeats it a liar?"

    That factoid you cite has been checked out and shown to be true by none other than R. Limbaugh. S. Hannity and R. Madcow.

    @Mike Richards:
    "If nothing else, this letter should point how how incomprehensible the debt is. It should show the Left that there is not enough money in America to pay down that debt and still have viable businesses."

    That's right, Mike. We are dead as a nation and don't know it. The only question remaining is, how long before the inevitable... a total collapse of our economy.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 3:49 p.m.

    Great idea. How about we make taxes voluntary, sort of like tithing. The government can tell us each year how much each person should give according to income, consumption or happiness derived. Might work.

    My plan for eliminating the deficit is that we sell all the public land belonging to the American people in the states who want to secede from the USA to the highest bidder. Allowing any nation, corporation, rich person local or foreign to bid. Maybe we could even sell the states themselves. My guess is that Mexico, one of the worlds richest nations, would pay a lot to own Texas.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 1, 2013 2:38 p.m.

    For those who accept Obama's idea that there is a "rich guy" who is hoarding all the money, why not spend a few minutes and do some homework?

    How many people are now employed because Mitt Romney invested HIS money to make THEIR lives better?

    - Staples has over 89,000 employees.

    - Sports authority has over 14,000 employees.

    - Stage Stores employs 13,500 people.

    - Dade (formerly Baxter) employs 5,000.

    - DDI has 1,700 employees.

    - Gartner employs 4,400.

    - Steel Dynamics employs 6,000.

    All of those enployees are tax payers.

    How many of those people would have a job if Romney and his associates had not rescued those companies? Most of those companies were either in bankruptcy or headed to bankruptcy. Roughly 145,000 people have a job because Mitt Romney and his associates pooled their money and did something about businesses that were hurting.

    Obama wants Mitt Romney's money. How many jobs has Obama created in the private sector?

    If everyone files a 1040 form and pays some income tax, they will understand that government spending hurts them personally. Killing the goose that lays the golden eggs will not solve Obama's spending problem.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 2:28 p.m.

    Pagan

    These lies again???

    "Regan tripled the debt." (Not quite. This is a lie.)

    "W. Bush doubled the debt." (Not quite. This is a lie.)

    "If we are going to address the concern of debt, the very least we can do is address who adds more to it."

    So you then talk about Romney? Why??? He hasn't added to the national debt.

    Here is who adds more to it.

    Reagan 1st term - 733 billion

    Reagan 2nd term - 1.02 trillion

    Reagan total - 1.75 trillion

    GW Bush first term - 1.94 trillion

    GW Bush Second term - 3.10 trillion

    GW Bush total - 5.04 trillion

    And the BIGGEST DEBT MAKER is... (drum roll)

    OBAMA 1st term - 5.7 trillion

    and that is just his first term!

    Obama has more debt in his first term than anyone else's total!

    Now you have the truth.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    @Open Minded Mormon
    "2. Republicans keep promising ZERO tax increases for ANYONE - including the 1% who could pay it and not loose sleep or change their lavish lifestyles one iota."

    Actually the Grover Norquist pledge only deals with federal income taxes and corporate taxes. Other taxes are free game. That's why Republicans pushed Obama to give up the payroll tax holiday and let those taxes go up (which Obama conceded to after it became obvious he only had about half his caucus and some economists with him on keeping the lower rates). Naturally those are regressive taxes that disproportionately affect the poor.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 1:31 p.m.

    To "airnaut" so now you confiscate all the wealth and collapse the economy because now nowbody has investments.

    Your ilk seems to think that the wealthy are like Scrooge McDuck, with a giant vault full of money that they can go and swim in.

    The fact is that while Romney may be worth $20 million, he may only have $100,000 in cash at any given time or less. While that may seem like a lot to you, that is less than 1% of his wealth that isn't tied to something else.

  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 1:28 p.m.

    There was one suggestion in the comments that we could pay off the debt by cutting the military. But the military is only 23% of the federal budget, so completely eliminating defense spending wouldn't even eliminate the annual deficit. The debt would still grow. And we would have no defense. Not a good idea.

    Some have suggested raising taxes on corporations. US corporate taxes are already the highest among industrialized nations. Strangely enough, those who suggest this are usually the ones complaining about corporations shipping jobs overseas. Let me suggest there's a connection between corporate tax rates and jobs fleeing the country. I will also repeat what has been said many times: corporations don't pay taxes, only people pay taxes. When taxes are hiked on corporations, they raise the cost of their goods or services, and/or cut the pay and benefits to their employees. How does that solve anything?

    There was a lament about all the missed taxes due to the Bush tax cuts. Wrong again. The relationship between taxes and revenue is nonlinear due to the effect of tax policy on economic activity. Cutting taxes increases revenue when taxes are too high.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Feb. 1, 2013 12:56 p.m.

    ike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah

    Let me do the math for you. It would take 16,000,000 "rich guys", yes, that's right, sixteen MILLION rich guys. We don't have 16,000,000 rich guys who have $1,000,000 in their "spare change" piggy banks.

    12:39 p.m. Feb. 1, 2013

    ===========

    or

    only 64,000 Mitt Romneys and Paris Hiltons,
    or
    only 16,000 Billionaires
    or
    only 80 Bill Gates or Warren Buffet types.

    and

    That's only individual citizens.
    What about the Corporations who pay nothing, and even get Government kick-backs?

    the money is there, it alwasy has been - it just keeps collecting more and more at the top,
    not with the old folks like you imagine.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 1, 2013 12:39 p.m.

    If nothing else, this letter should point how how incomprehensible the debt is. It should show the Left that there is not enough money in America to pay down that debt and still have viable businesses.

    It would be great if government had a solution, but they don't. They're just like many insurance companies that think that they can underpay those who provide doctors and hospitals and still have good health care in America. The government thinks that it can take most or all of the capital needed to build businesses out of circulation.

    If 70,000,000 Americans paying $300 extra per year can only cover the cost of running the government for six days, how will a handful of "rich guys" support Obama's spending?

    See for yourself how many "rich guys paying $1,000,000 MORE in taxes per year it would take to pay off the $16,000,000,000,000 deficit.

    Let me do the math for you. It would take 16,000,000 "rich guys", yes, that's right, sixteen MILLION rich guys. We don't have 16,000,000 rich guys who have $1,000,000 in their "spare change" piggy banks.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 12:40 p.m.

    Why is it so difficult for some people to simply check the truth or lack of truth in a statement before posting it?

    For example, this blatant lie popped again here: "OK. Obama added more to the national debt than all presidents put together from George Washington to George Bush. How's that?"

    Could it be that some people DELIBERATELY refuse to check truthfulness because they are not interested in being truthful? Does deliberately repeating a lie make the one who repeats it a liar?

    I think it does.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 12:24 p.m.

    While it is a kind effort, it will be wasted until the government learns to cut spending.

    For example. In January Congress passed a tax law that increased taxes to millionairs and billionairs. That tax brought in an additional $50 billion. That is quite a lot of money. Then, less than 3 weeks later they passed a bill to spend money on hurricaine Sandy victims. That spending was more than what was collected in taxes.

    We see taxes, then spending of those taxes.

    If the government wanted to cut its debt so that the debt ceiling wasn't an issue for a few years they could take SS and turn it into a pay as you go system, and eliminate the IOUs that currently are on the SS books.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Feb. 1, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    Now if my wife and I were to pay even $25 per month ($300) per year, and the rest of the 70 million untaxed citizens were to do the same, it would ring in some $21 trillion ($300 times 70 million), paying off the known portion of the national debt in just one year.

    ============

    While I agree that everyone should be putting some skin in the game --

    1. That will take 1,000 years - not ONE year to come up with that kind of money.

    2. Republicans keep promising ZERO tax increases for ANYONE - including the 1% who could pay it and not loose sleep or change their lavish lifestyles one iota.

    3. How about we stop subsidizing Corportaions making $Billions in PROFITS, before we start asking for your $25...?

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 11:39 a.m.

    @ugottabkidn:
    "I will accept your offer only after all loopholes are closed for corporations..."

    You silly... Corporations don't pay taxes. Only people pay taxes. Any 'tax' a corporation (or any other business combination) pays is merely added to the cost of the goods/services they manufacture/provide which means the consumer effectively pays the tax. Corporate loopholes mean you're not paying as much for stuff you buy from corporations.

    @Pagan:
    "Obama? x4 times. If we are going to address the concern of debt, the very least we can do is address who adds more to it."

    OK. Obama added more to the national debt than all presidents put together from George Washington to George Bush. How's that?

    "Mitt Romney paid zero taxes from 1996-2002 by using tax shelters like putting his American dollars in Switzerland. Even the Deseret news reported on this, 1/26/12."

    Don't blame Mitt. He merely applied tax law. The same tax law available to you. If you're not smart enough to take advantage, that'd be your bad.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 11:34 a.m.

    @John Charity Spring

    I looked at my W-2 the other day and realized that even though I barely make the poverty line of wages, my federal taxes were about twice as much as the refund I got last year, putting me firmly in the 53%. Maybe it's because I don't get a mortgage deduction since I don't own a home... or pay a lower rate due to marriage since I'm not married... or have child tax credits since I don't have kids. So if I'm still paying income taxes that means that the people who aren't make very little in wages, are retired seniors, are the unemployed looking for work, or are somehow benefiting with deductions that wipes out what they owe. Romney won 8/10 states with the highest rates of people not paying income taxes (Obama only won New Mexico and Florida). Maybe it'd be useful if this tax season everyone notes their federal income tax (not all taxes) and their eventual tax refund (if any) and sees if their refund is larger than their federal income taxes. If it is, then they're a 47%er.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 10:53 a.m.

    'The $2.5 Trillion tragedy: What America has given up for 10 years of Bush tax cuts' -
    By Zaid Jilani – Think Progress – 07/07/11

    'While doing so, Bush promised prosperity and growth, but the nation got neither.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 10:45 a.m.

    Verle, I will accept your offer only after all loopholes are closed for corporations, and those enjoying the benefits of living in America while camping their funds in Swiss bank accounts. Verle you don't take in account the fact that if SS is your entire income then you are paying a greater percentage of your income in all taxes, which are numerous. If you were a good Republican you wouldn't be volunteering to pay because "we don't have a revenue problem but a spending problem". I'll send one of the party officers by to set you straight if you like.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 10:29 a.m.

    Regan tripled the debt.

    W. Bush, doubled the debt.

    Obama...has done neither.

    Regan raised the debt x18 times.

    W. Bush, x7 times.

    Obama? x4 times.

    If we are going to address the concern of debt, the very least we can do is address who adds more to it.

    FYI? Mitt Romney paid zero taxes from 1996-2002 by using tax shelters like putting his American dollars in Switzerland. Even the Deseret news reported on this, 1/26/12

  • DougS Oakley, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    First, I appreciate the authors desire to contribute to reducing the deficit but I wish to point out that the rest of the 70 million may not be so inclined. The politicians in Washington depend on these 70 million to vote the back into office so they can continue their profligate ways.

    Can you imagine what would happen if only those paying taxes were allowed to vote?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 10:00 a.m.

    Buford, when you wrote: "The lazy 70 million who don't pay a dime in taxes need to buck up and start carrying their own weight."

    Didn't you realize that you were calling the writer of this letter lazy?

    May I suggest, Sir, that you are a large part of our national problem? Until we can quit calling one another names and start looking for wise and fair solutions, there will be no solution.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    It was men like Verle here who worked hard and sacrificed to make this Country great. The selfish corporations and CEOs of today could learn something here.

    Perhaps, John "Charity" Spring, there is more than just one very narrow truth in all of this.

    What's the saying, "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 9:48 a.m.

    A shame really, allowing this poor man to embarrass himself like this. And the idea is a terrible one. People who don't pay federal income tax pay plenty of other taxes, including federal taxes.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    I think we need more tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. And cut public services.

    That will solve our problems!

    Verle, if we cut your SS and gave the Koch Bros and Mitt Romney more in tax breaks, then I'm sure you'll be better off!

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 9:24 a.m.

    Or better yet: stop buying bombs and close all the military bases around the world. Since when does a national defense call for bases on every corner of the globe?
    Also, have a 100% tax on guns and ammo.

  • Buford Buckley Provo, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 9:04 a.m.

    Who cares whether the math is wrong? The letter writer is right. The lazy 70 million who don't pay a dime in taxes need to buck up and start carrying their own weight. Better for them to pay $25 a month than nothing.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 8:52 a.m.

    Good idea. The only problem is, the current government leaders would not apply the funds to the debt. It would be mostly used to grow the government leaving most of the debt in place for future generations to deal with.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Feb. 1, 2013 8:45 a.m.

    I am confident that Mr Solt had good intentions with his letter.

    It does help to highlight the magnitude of our debt problem.

    If we could only cut his medicare and social security and give more tax breaks to those with the most, surely we could make a dent.

    Hey, it's a start.

  • micawber Centerville, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 8:33 a.m.

    Mr. Solt, I commend you for your civic mindedness. Thank you.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 8:19 a.m.

    Apparently Verle is a Republican. His solution, like all those proposed by GOP candidates, is arithmetic-impaired. Verle, you and your 70 million fellow income tax escapees would have to donate $25,000 per month to reach that pie-in-the-sky number he tossed out.

    But even if Verle's math had been correct, his solution would have been impossible for some families with low income and several children, because each of the children would also have to pay that $25.

    Still, why not ask the poor to pay more, so that we can allow those with more money than they know what to do with to accumulate wealth even faster? The GOP must believe that increasing wealth inequality is the solution to our problems.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 8:04 a.m.

    I suggested a couple days ago that US budgetary numbers are too big for the many Americans to comprehend. I was right. But I am glad this letter doesn't just assume the government has an infinite supply of money.

    While the numbers are off, I still think the deficit would be diminished by more than just the amount taken in, because when everyone understands the burden of taxes, they are less likely to vote for frivolous services and more likely to guard the public money from corruption with more vigor.

    I appreciate this writer for not just thinking that someone else will pay for him. I suspect that our seniors, who have paid for their social security, are more like minded with Verle than our welfare recipients.

  • John Charity Spring Back Home in Davis County, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 7:07 a.m.

    It was men like Verle here who worked hard and sacrificed to make this Country great. The selfish young people of today could learn something here.

    Even today, Verle is willing to contribute what little he has for the good of the nation. Unfortunately, far too many of the younger generation has adopted the entitlement attitude of the left-wing. They expect their country to give all to them, while they give nothing in return.

    We must do as Verle has said and stop the practice of handing out tax dollars to those too lazy and slothful to provide for themselves. This process of bankrupting the country must stop now.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Feb. 1, 2013 6:51 a.m.

    That's an excellent idea; however, my calculator shows that $300 X 70,000,000 = $21,000,000,000. Nine zeros = billion. Twelve zeros = trillion.

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Feb. 1, 2013 6:40 a.m.

    Pretty sure that math doesn't work.... mixing up Trillions with Billions. Good concept that everyone pays a little at least. As much as leftists like to disagree with this, you cant take 21B out of peoples hands, without affecting the economy a little bit. Just imagine the affect of the alleged 80B that we just stole from the "wealthy" among us, in the name of class envy. The letter writer probably just unknowingly stumbled onto the exact example or argument, demonstrating how government spending needs to be cut to really improve the deficit. Conservatives have known that all along.

  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    Feb. 1, 2013 6:29 a.m.

    You're off by a factor of 1000 - it would only bring in $21 billion. But I agree that everyone should have some skin in the game.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Feb. 1, 2013 6:25 a.m.

    This really is low of the DN to willingly embarrass one of their readers by willfully printing a mathematical error of such magnitude. $300 times 70 million is tweinty one thousand million, or $21 billion dollars, not $21 trillion. I'm sure this author was sincere in their intention to solve a complex problem but the DN editorial staff could have handled this a little better by just responding back to the author to check their math rather than publishing their mistake for all too see. Shame on you DN.

  • thinkitover BENTON, IL
    Feb. 1, 2013 5:56 a.m.

    Your math is off by a factor of 1000. Your $300 times 70 million equals $21 Billion.