Well said. Thank you.
We can still call homosexual relations a serious sin and those that have the
attraction supress it. An article in the Ensign in a talk DAllin H Oaks talked
about Tolerance. Thing is were is there tolerance for people that think
HOmosexual relations are a serious sin? What people do in private we may not
need to worry about. However do we need to facilitate or tolerate serious sin
or thinking it 's not sin. You can't change the laws of God any
easier than you can change the law of gravity.
Amen"I heard frequent comments made in LDS Church meetings and
classes I attended about how certain groups were attempting to destroy the
family. "Still happening.That was the overriding
message of the Prop 8 campaign. I'm don't think the Church has backed
away from that have they? If they have, the members are unaware. We still have
a very long way to go. I think if more gay members came out of the closet it
might help. It's easier to demonize others when we don't personlly
know or associate with the "others."
From the article:"Their church status is a matter between them
and church leaders. Our task as individuals is clear — showing love,
compassion and acceptance. We need to do so because they are our family members,
friends and neighbors. They are fellow children of God."Well
said. And that good counsel could be applied to a host of other situations as
higv: "We can still call homosexual relations a serious sin and those that
have the attraction supress it."You are both factually wrong and
on the losing side of this issue.Davis' article is the most
genuinely "Christian" position on this subject that I've read in
this newspaper in a very long time.
@ higv: You can still call homosexual behavior a sin and no one is asking you
to "facilitate" it in anyway. What consenting adults do in the privacy
of their bedroom really is nobody else's business. The LDS
Church considers drinking and smoking to be sins - but almost every grocery
store and gas station sells cigarettes and beer and the State of Utah sells
beer, wine, and hard alcohol. And we all know Mormons who do not strictly
follow the Word of Wisdom. Does allowing people free agency with
regards to the Word of Wisdom mean you are "facilitating" their sin? Why
are you - personally - so much harder on homosexuals, especially in light of the
LDS Church's recent statements?
And I remember 40 years ago the same awkwardness comments being made about
"blacks" and the Priesthood [during the civil rights movement].And I remember the halabaloo when WOMEN were finally asked to give prayers in
Sacrament Meetings [during the push for the Equal Right Ammendment].I remember many ultra-conservative LDS members who left the church back then
on account of the Prophet changing official Church policies. I vividly recall
them calling him a false or fallen prophet who caved to public opinion -- We
laugh now, but it's really no different than the FLDS and the changes with
polygamy.It's difficult at times for those who have dug in
their ultra-conservative heels and insist that things must always be held back,
and remain the same and never change [i.e., damnation].The fact is
we are a church of Eternal Progression - Progressives in other words.That's WHY we have a living Prophet today - to change things when needed
- If he only enforced laws given 2,000 - 6,000 years ago he'd be
nothing more than a Policeman (law enforcer), not a Prophet.Y2K
didn't usher in the millenium and MittRomney lost the WhiteHorse
Prophecy.Deal with it.
If Satan's plan is to destroy the family, then who's following
Satan by ridiculing, castigating, shunning, ostercizing, and completely
disowning a gay family member?Seems to me that Satan won twice, once for supposed "sinner" [even though you can be gay, and not even
"sin"] -- but I firmly believe that the greater sin lies
with the holier than thou family member who berated them and runs them out.
My cousin and her partner are raising a beautiful adopted daughter that they
rescued from a life of certain poverty. A gay couple I know are helping to take
care of their elderly aunt who was never married and has no other caring family.
When people see things like this it is hard to imagine that gay
couples are destroying the American family.
Terrific article. And it's certainly time to embrace other efforts towards
equality. I think we should show our support for the Boy Scouts, as they work to
change their discriminatory policy.
Everyone has a burden or two to overcome. Perhaps some heterosexuals would like
to have sex every day with anyone any time or marry several people at the same
time. But they abstain. Why? Because, for one thing, such conduct has been
labeled sinful.Homosexuals also have a burden to overcome. Sure,
they're attracted to the same sex. That doesn't mean the can't
do what society expects of them and marry a person of the opposite sex. It
takes effort and determination to overcome sin... including the homosexual as
well as heterosexual drives.The unanswered question deals with
official church policy. The church tell us to love our fellow man (woman)
including the homosexual. But the unanswered question is... what will be the
afterlife inheritance of the homosexual? The church teaches marriage is
required for top positions in heaven. And such marriages must between a man and
a women. We need clarification which is woefully lacking.
Miss PiggieOgden, UTHomosexuals also have a burden to
overcome. Sure, they're attracted to the same sex. That doesn't mean
the can't do what society expects of them and marry a person of the
opposite sex. ---------Seriously?You'd be
just fine and happily married and having sex with someone you knew full well
didn't find you the least bit attrative, let alone desired in anyway?1. You are lying to no one but yourself. Try being honest with yourself,
before judging others.2. I've seen many couples of 2 sisters in
prayer circles holding hands...so, some of those questions have already been
answered...if you open your mind, and know what to look for. [Eyes to see,
hears to hear.]
@LDS lib,It must be tough pretending to twist your church's
teachings to fit what you want your church to believe, am I right?All I know is your church teaches that marriage should only be between a man
and a woman. And your prophet(who you claim speaks for God) says that
homosexual relationships are a sin. Having those feelings perhaps not, but
acting on them yes.Am I right? Is it tough pretending to support a
church you clearly don't?
Relative morality and situational ethics are still as wrong as ever. They are
the surest path down the proverbial slippery slope. Too bad so many people have
fallen into their sweet, deadly trap.
Chris BSalt Lake City, UT@LDS lib,It must be tough
pretending to twist your church's teachings to fit what you want your
church to believe, am I right?Am I right? Is it tough pretending to
support a church you clearly don't?12:58 p.m. Jan. 30, 2013======= My church has stated it's position on
homosexual behavior.I am in 100% compliance.I support
"marriage" as between one man, and one woman.per the LDS
Church.I support "Civil Unions" or "Domestic
Partnerships" at a Court House of Law to those seeking legal recognition for
realtionships not meeting that definition of marriage.per the LDS
church.My Church has also stated clearly to treat those who have
SameSex Atrraction, with love, respect, support just like anyone else.So -
once again - I am in 100% complince with that as well.BTW - if you
are LDS - it is you who are not supporting the LDS church, not me.FYI - the Church has changed it's definition of Marriage several times
over the years.In fact, my Great-Great-GrandFather went to jail several
times for his strange and rather unorthodox marriages.
@LDS Liberal:"Seriously? You'd be just fine and happily married
and having sex with someone you knew full well didn't find you the least
bit attrative, let alone desired in anyway?"Depends entirely on
whether you want reach the highest of echelons in the next life. Entirely our
call. For sure, you can't make it marrying someone of your same sex. How
you gonna has eternal increase? Adoption wouldn't seem to be an option."You are lying to no one but yourself. Try being honest with
yourself, before judging others."I'm simply suggesting that
both homosexuals and heterosexuals has sex urges to deal with. I know
heterosexual guys who'd like to have 'it' twenty-four seven with
anyone anytime. And others who'd like to have several at a time... and not
even married. Everybody has sexual urges to train and conquer."I've seen many couples of 2 sisters in prayer circles holding
hands..."Holding hands is a far cry from being married or even
having sex. What's your point?"...so, some of those
questions have already been answered..."What questions?"Eyes to see, hears to hear."What's a
@Open Minded(Second screen name to try and make it seems like you have a
supporter of your original screen name of LDS Liberal?) Funny. I'm far from Mormon. Frankly I dont care much for the Mormon religion,
other than your stance on homosexual behavior. Curious though is
your accusation that I dont support your church if I were a member How is that exactly? Where in my posts do I say my views and you can tell
that my views are not in line with the Mormons? Or was that just a
randon unsupportable accusation?Not that I care to be honest, since
I'm not Mormon I just wanted to call you out on your unsupportable
accusation.Seems you also failed to clarify your stance as to if you
really do support your church or not.Do you think a gay man should
be celibate his entire life, unless he decides to marry a woman?That's what the Mormon prophet says. Again, seems your
jumping around the question and not anwering it. Still seems you
dont support your own church. Am I wrong?
@chris b You do of course realize we can all go back and read the
exchanges between previous posters right? You asked about marriage
which open minded answered directly, they also directly addressed you question
about their support for what the believe their churches stance is on the issue.
it would appear to me that you are the one trying to jump around their response
because you cannot address it directly. I do see now why you so often resort to
one line hit and run post though, when you stick around your reasoning skills
I think one major theme of this letter - love and compassion for those with
same-sex attraction - is a wonderful message that needed to be around decades
ago. But the professor seamlessly equates such brotherly compassion with
support of gay clubs for minors in schools, implied support of gay marriage,
etc. Those are most certainly NOT the same thing. I see a lot of posters on
here who profess faithful membership in the Church, while walking a fine line
with sin by strongly implying that homosexuality & gay marriage is great,
harmless, the same as race, and the ultimate end-game of a long history of
battling discrimination on other issues (race, gender, etc.) This is very
cynical political calculation, and wholly disconnected from reality.
Homosexuality is extremely dangerous. It kills 20 years early on average. Gay
marriage is most certainly NOT supported by the Church, and God has made it
very, very clear that there will be no "evolving" towards gay marriage
over time as we caveman members come to realize what the enlightened LDS
Liberals of the world already know. That's not progress - that is a
decline into sin predicted by the BOM cycle of civilizations.
The nation is moving forward. Something is holding Utah back.
@Miss Piggie"That doesn't mean the can't do what society
expects of them and marry a person of the opposite sex. "As a
straight guy I honestly can't see myself ever wanting to marry another man
and I have to think any married couple would tell you that their attraction to
their spouse is something more than just sexual attraction. "The
church teaches marriage is required for top positions in heaven"Small wonder why Utah is #1 in the nation in anti-depressant usage. The state
has a 3:2 female:male gender split among 20-40 year olds (or some age group like
that) in the church.
I was in a Mormon scout troop with a gay kid 40 years ago, right here in Zion.
He was a nice kid, kind of shy. Then we got to junior high and he was tormented
mercilessly, primarily by the "jocks," all of whom were Mormons. These
loudmouth bullies haven't changed one bit in 40 years--they're still
around, only fatter and more offensive than ever. Nice letter. I wish it could
get through to some people.
@Irony Guy,How did you even know the kid was gay 40 years ago? I
was in scouts 20 years ago and I dont remember any of the other 12 year olds
telling me they were straight. It didnt come up. I'm curious,
why, if your story is true(which I'm not convinced of), this kid would need
to share with everyone when he was 12 that he decided to be gay?None
of the straight scouts I was in scouting with did that.
@voice of reason "Homosexuality is extremely dangerous. It kills 20
years early on average." thats a pretty serious claim care to
support it with some credible research? You do now lying is also considered a
sin. just so we don't waist time since this is my last post articles
referencing each other is not research.
Dear Richard Davis,Thank you.When I have to defend that
there are decent and understanding persons in the LDS faith, in the face of Prop
8 and other attacks against LGBT Americans... I will use this
letter, as an example that there are people in the LDS faith, who want to treat
their gay and lesbian friends and family, like Christ intended.God
Voice ofReasonLAYTON, UTThat's not progress - that is a
decline into sin predicted by the BOM cycle of civilizations.3:54
p.m. Jan. 30, 2013=============== Tell me, show me one
Book of Mormon scriptural reference that says the Nephites were destroy due to
sexual immorality.ONE. do it.My Book of Mormon said - They loved war more than peace.They loved their money more than the
poor, the sick and the needy.They willing followed the Gadianton's,
who creed was GAIN ($) over all else....and I see conservative Utah
Mormons falling into that very same trap.
Interesting read. Sure, we can all relate to the idea of loving everyone.
However, it leaves out (perhaps on purpose) the issue of morality and virtue. If
being a practicing gay becomes acceptable--that is, that it is no longer
immoral, then we must accept any and all sexual behavior. Otherwise, those with
other sexual tendencies could claim they're being discriminated against.
Further, how does the writer justify this evolving view with the
doctrine/scriptures he and his church regard as the Word of God? Either
scripture is true, or it is myth. Or can we by our own choice determine which
scripture/commandments are true--enjoying selective obedience?I know
it's hard to face the harsh criticism the rest of the world dishes out
against us because of our "Victorian" views on morality. It really comes
down to conviction and courage. And I'm not convinced that either of those
attributes (let alone morality and virtue) are as prevalent today as they used
Gallup Poll: Majority of Americans support gay marriage' - By Elizabeth
Stuart - DSNews - 05/20/2011'For the first time since Gallup
started studying the issue in 1996, the polling organization found a majority of
Americans favor legalizing same-sex marriage.