Comments about ‘Richard Davis: Collective views about gay issues are changing, even in Utah’

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Published: Wednesday, Jan. 30 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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Maudine
SLC, UT

Well said. Thank you.

higv
Dietrich, ID

We can still call homosexual relations a serious sin and those that have the attraction supress it. An article in the Ensign in a talk DAllin H Oaks talked about Tolerance. Thing is were is there tolerance for people that think HOmosexual relations are a serious sin? What people do in private we may not need to worry about. However do we need to facilitate or tolerate serious sin or thinking it 's not sin. You can't change the laws of God any easier than you can change the law of gravity.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Amen

"I heard frequent comments made in LDS Church meetings and classes I attended about how certain groups were attempting to destroy the family. "

Still happening.

That was the overriding message of the Prop 8 campaign. I'm don't think the Church has backed away from that have they? If they have, the members are unaware. We still have a very long way to go. I think if more gay members came out of the closet it might help. It's easier to demonize others when we don't personlly know or associate with the "others."

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

From the article:

"Their church status is a matter between them and church leaders. Our task as individuals is clear — showing love, compassion and acceptance. We need to do so because they are our family members, friends and neighbors. They are fellow children of God."

Well said. And that good counsel could be applied to a host of other situations as well.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

higv: "We can still call homosexual relations a serious sin and those that have the attraction supress it."

You are both factually wrong and on the losing side of this issue.

Davis' article is the most genuinely "Christian" position on this subject that I've read in this newspaper in a very long time.

Maudine
SLC, UT

@ higv: You can still call homosexual behavior a sin and no one is asking you to "facilitate" it in anyway. What consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom really is nobody else's business.

The LDS Church considers drinking and smoking to be sins - but almost every grocery store and gas station sells cigarettes and beer and the State of Utah sells beer, wine, and hard alcohol. And we all know Mormons who do not strictly follow the Word of Wisdom.

Does allowing people free agency with regards to the Word of Wisdom mean you are "facilitating" their sin? Why are you - personally - so much harder on homosexuals, especially in light of the LDS Church's recent statements?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

And I remember 40 years ago the same awkwardness comments being made about "blacks" and the Priesthood [during the civil rights movement].

And I remember the halabaloo when WOMEN were finally asked to give prayers in Sacrament Meetings [during the push for the Equal Right Ammendment].

I remember many ultra-conservative LDS members who left the church back then on account of the Prophet changing official Church policies. I vividly recall them calling him a false or fallen prophet who caved to public opinion -- We laugh now, but it's really no different than the FLDS and the changes with polygamy.

It's difficult at times for those who have dug in their ultra-conservative heels and insist that things must always be held back, and remain the same and never change [i.e., damnation].

The fact is we are a church of Eternal Progression - Progressives in other words.

That's WHY we have a living Prophet today - to change things when needed -
If he only enforced laws given 2,000 - 6,000 years ago he'd be nothing more than a Policeman (law enforcer), not a Prophet.

Y2K didn't usher in the millenium and MittRomney lost the WhiteHorse Prophecy.

Deal with it.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

If Satan's plan is to destroy the family,
then who's following Satan by ridiculing, castigating, shunning, ostercizing, and completely disowning a gay family member?

Seems to me that Satan won twice,
once for supposed "sinner" [even though you can be gay, and not even "sin"] --

but I firmly believe that the greater sin lies with the holier than thou family member who berated them and runs them out.

liberal larry
salt lake City, utah

My cousin and her partner are raising a beautiful adopted daughter that they rescued from a life of certain poverty. A gay couple I know are helping to take care of their elderly aunt who was never married and has no other caring family.

When people see things like this it is hard to imagine that gay couples are destroying the American family.

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT

Terrific article. And it's certainly time to embrace other efforts towards equality. I think we should show our support for the Boy Scouts, as they work to change their discriminatory policy.

Miss Piggie
Ogden, UT

Everyone has a burden or two to overcome. Perhaps some heterosexuals would like to have sex every day with anyone any time or marry several people at the same time. But they abstain. Why? Because, for one thing, such conduct has been labeled sinful.

Homosexuals also have a burden to overcome. Sure, they're attracted to the same sex. That doesn't mean the can't do what society expects of them and marry a person of the opposite sex. It takes effort and determination to overcome sin... including the homosexual as well as heterosexual drives.

The unanswered question deals with official church policy. The church tell us to love our fellow man (woman) including the homosexual. But the unanswered question is... what will be the afterlife inheritance of the homosexual? The church teaches marriage is required for top positions in heaven. And such marriages must between a man and a women. We need clarification which is woefully lacking.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Miss Piggie
Ogden, UT

Homosexuals also have a burden to overcome. Sure, they're attracted to the same sex. That doesn't mean the can't do what society expects of them and marry a person of the opposite sex.

---------

Seriously?
You'd be just fine and happily married and having sex with someone you knew full well didn't find you the least bit attrative, let alone desired in anyway?

1. You are lying to no one but yourself. Try being honest with yourself, before judging others.

2. I've seen many couples of 2 sisters in prayer circles holding hands...so, some of those questions have already been answered...
if you open your mind, and know what to look for. [Eyes to see, hears to hear.]

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

@LDS lib,

It must be tough pretending to twist your church's teachings to fit what you want your church to believe, am I right?

All I know is your church teaches that marriage should only be between a man and a woman. And your prophet(who you claim speaks for God) says that homosexual relationships are a sin. Having those feelings perhaps not, but acting on them yes.

Am I right? Is it tough pretending to support a church you clearly don't?

Robert
Rexburg, ID

Relative morality and situational ethics are still as wrong as ever. They are the surest path down the proverbial slippery slope. Too bad so many people have fallen into their sweet, deadly trap.

Open Minded Mormon
Everett, 00

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT
@LDS lib,

It must be tough pretending to twist your church's teachings to fit what you want your church to believe, am I right?

Am I right? Is it tough pretending to support a church you clearly don't?

12:58 p.m. Jan. 30, 2013

=======

My church has stated it's position on homosexual behavior.
I am in 100% compliance.

I support "marriage" as between one man, and one woman.
per the LDS Church.

I support "Civil Unions" or "Domestic Partnerships" at a Court House of Law to those seeking legal recognition for realtionships not meeting that definition of marriage.
per the LDS church.

My Church has also stated clearly to treat those who have SameSex Atrraction, with love, respect, support just like anyone else.
So - once again - I am in 100% complince with that as well.

BTW - if you are LDS - it is you who are not supporting the LDS church, not me.

FYI - the Church has changed it's definition of Marriage several times over the years.
In fact, my Great-Great-GrandFather went to jail several times for his strange and rather unorthodox marriages.

Miss Piggie
Ogden, UT

@LDS Liberal:
"Seriously? You'd be just fine and happily married and having sex with someone you knew full well didn't find you the least bit attrative, let alone desired in anyway?"

Depends entirely on whether you want reach the highest of echelons in the next life. Entirely our call. For sure, you can't make it marrying someone of your same sex. How you gonna has eternal increase? Adoption wouldn't seem to be an option.

"You are lying to no one but yourself. Try being honest with yourself, before judging others."

I'm simply suggesting that both homosexuals and heterosexuals has sex urges to deal with. I know heterosexual guys who'd like to have 'it' twenty-four seven with anyone anytime. And others who'd like to have several at a time... and not even married. Everybody has sexual urges to train and conquer.

"I've seen many couples of 2 sisters in prayer circles holding hands..."

Holding hands is a far cry from being married or even having sex. What's your point?

"...so, some of those questions have already been answered..."

What questions?

"Eyes to see, hears to hear."

What's a 'hears?'

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

@Open Minded(Second screen name to try and make it seems like you have a supporter of your original screen name of LDS Liberal?) Funny.

I'm far from Mormon. Frankly I dont care much for the Mormon religion, other than your stance on homosexual behavior.

Curious though is your accusation that I dont support your church if I were a member

How is that exactly? Where in my posts do I say my views and you can tell that my views are not in line with the Mormons?

Or was that just a randon unsupportable accusation?

Not that I care to be honest, since I'm not Mormon I just wanted to call you out on your unsupportable accusation.

Seems you also failed to clarify your stance as to if you really do support your church or not.

Do you think a gay man should be celibate his entire life, unless he decides to marry a woman?

That's what the Mormon prophet says.

Again, seems your jumping around the question and not anwering it.

Still seems you dont support your own church. Am I wrong?

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

@chris b

You do of course realize we can all go back and read the exchanges between previous posters right?

You asked about marriage which open minded answered directly, they also directly addressed you question about their support for what the believe their churches stance is on the issue. it would appear to me that you are the one trying to jump around their response because you cannot address it directly. I do see now why you so often resort to one line hit and run post though, when you stick around your reasoning skills fail you.

Voice ofReason
LAYTON, UT

I think one major theme of this letter - love and compassion for those with same-sex attraction - is a wonderful message that needed to be around decades ago. But the professor seamlessly equates such brotherly compassion with support of gay clubs for minors in schools, implied support of gay marriage, etc. Those are most certainly NOT the same thing. I see a lot of posters on here who profess faithful membership in the Church, while walking a fine line with sin by strongly implying that homosexuality & gay marriage is great, harmless, the same as race, and the ultimate end-game of a long history of battling discrimination on other issues (race, gender, etc.) This is very cynical political calculation, and wholly disconnected from reality. Homosexuality is extremely dangerous. It kills 20 years early on average. Gay marriage is most certainly NOT supported by the Church, and God has made it very, very clear that there will be no "evolving" towards gay marriage over time as we caveman members come to realize what the enlightened LDS Liberals of the world already know. That's not progress - that is a decline into sin predicted by the BOM cycle of civilizations.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

The nation is moving forward. Something is holding Utah back.

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