Published: Friday, Jan. 25 2013 12:00 a.m. MST
@LDS Liberal,As my father used to say when one of us made ridiculous
comments, "You're full of baloney".Twisting the facts
won't make them true. The "War Powers Act", requires that the
President notify Congress of any military action within 48 hours. The Act
allows the President to pursue war for 60 days without the consent of Congress.
Without their consent, he has an additional 30 days to remove all military
personnel from the war zone.Congress approved all military actions
authorized by President Bush. Congress approved all spending for the military
actions authorized by President Bush.Your argument has no merit. It
is false in its premise and it is false as you presented it.Meanwhile, the "wealthy" will not continue to carry your water.
They're tired of being your "gofer". They are tired of you
demanding that they pay for Obama's programs. As was already
posted, the top 1% pay 36% of all taxes. In addition, they are not a burden on
the government. They do not cost the government 36% of its expenses; they
don't even cost the government 1% of its expenses.
@ECR "I'm only disparaging those whose only priority in life is the
accumulation of wealth."And I'm saying, a man who does his
charitable giving with money he has voted out of the pockets of others has no
right to assume he is morally superior to them.
@Emajor,Either you are wrong or Obama is wrong. He told all of
America that if Congress did not give in to his demands, that taxes would be
raised on all Americans when the Bush Tax Cut expired. Using those same words,
you say that your taxes and the taxes of every household in America did not
increase when Obama's "tax holiday" expired. Who is right, you or
Obama? Are you telling us that Obama lied to us? Are you telling us that he
used an empty threat because taxes were not going to go up if the Bush Tax Cuts
expired? You're redefining words to hide a tax increase. You know it. I
know it. Every taxpayer in America knows it. You claim that you
don't want the "rich guy" to pay your way. Why don't you
demand that he be taxed at the same rate as you are taxed? Unless you're a
"rich guy", he'll still pay much more than you, but he'll pay
the same rate.When the left redefines words to tell us that
"up" is "down" because they walk lock-step with Obama, they
insult our intelligence.
J Thompson,You are conflating two separate tax issues.The expiration of the tax holiday was never in question. Neither side wanted
to extend the holiday.The expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts was, of
course, a matter of significant discussion and political chatter.I
am unconcerned about Obama so please don't direct any of that at me. I am
simply trying to help you understand that there are two wholly separate tax
@J Thompson,And as my Grandfather used to say when one of us made
ridiculous comments, "That's a bunch of Malarkey".Congress approved all military actions authorized by President Bush. Congress
approved all spending for the military actions authorized by President Bush.BUT (and you conviently ignored this KEY part of it -- Congress never approved
FUNDING for it -- hence the Deficeit Debates now.)So, it is your
argument that has no merit.SECOND of all now -- You
never answered my question s either The Bush Wars were never
"Constitutional".1. Congress declares war - not Bush -- per
the Constitution [you must've been asleep at the switch on that train
wreck], 2. The "War Powers Act", we've already
discussed -- and 13 years is still ridiculous.But what about this
one:3. What enemies? [Foreign and Domestic...blah, blah, blah] Iraq
never invaded or declared War on the United States, neither did Afghanistan.Oh, and one other thing, You can split my Bush War portion of the
bill with your friend Mike Richards...Perhaps RedShirt will chime in, and
you all can split it 3 ways....lighten the load.
"The top 1% pay 36% of all taxes."When the top 1% owns 40%
of all the wealth in this country, and take home triple the percentage of
national income that they did 30 years ago, I have no problem with the
percentage of all taxes that the top 1% pay. What's absurd is
that they have convinced so many people that the increasing concentration of
wealth in the hands of a few is somehow a "good" thing when it is the
very antithesis of democratic values.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I'm onto you, Mike
Richards. There's no way a sober person could make the statements you make
with a straight face. I suspect you're really a liberal and are making all
these outrageous claims just to illustrate just how ridiculous the reasoning of
the Right is. Bravo, Mike. You're succeeding.
J Thompson,There is a third option, and it involves you being wrong. As
Twin Lights stated, you are badly mixing two separate issues. And it's a
transparent deflection to avoid admitting that Obama gave everyone a temporary
tax break which conservatives refuse to acknowledge, and then blame him for not
renewing it even though a) neither Republicans nor Democrats wanted to, so it
wasn't going to happen, and b) it was known from the very beginning that it
would be a temporary 2-year tax holiday. It isn't my fault that you
didn't pay enough attention to the news to know this was going on.Using the specter of Obama lying as leverage against me is a waste of your
time. Obama isn't my prophet, he is the better of two candidates. Like all
politicians I can find several examples of him lying at Politifact. So it really comes down to why you are so unable to admit that Obama did
something right by giving us a 2-year tax break. Or criticize Republicans for
not pushing for its renewal. You may have insulted your own intelligence,
unfortunately.Fourth comment, I'm out.
People,Why do we let Mike Richards and J Thompson(who are obviously the
same person) suck up all the oxygen on these boards day after day with
ridiculous statements and assertions? Choosing to ignore people who refuse to
acknowledge reality is a better alternative that spending numerous posts in
@Emajor,Your reasoning implies that Obama's "tax
holiday" was meant to be temporary; that everybody knew that he would add
$1,200 per year to their tax bill anytime that he wanted; that paying more in
taxes is not an increase; that "up" is "down" and that
"red" is "cyan". You also infer that Bush's tax holiday is
somehow different because Obama said that the Bush tax holiday, if removed,
would be a tax increase. Obama ran a campaign where he told every an
woman and child in America that their taxes would not increase unless they made
more than $250,000 per year. I don't make $250,000 per year. I don't
even make $60,000 per year, but he increased my families taxes by $1,200 a year.
You can claim that increasing taxes on every family in America is not an
increase. No one but Obama agrees with you. "More" =
"increase". "Less" = "decrease".The rich
guy is through with Obama's threats. Obama might fool his followers, but
he doesn't fool the people who pay the government's bills.
Nate - The only ones who think they are morally superior to anyone are those who
actually think that folks who make less money than they do aren't entitled
to healthcare, education and other basics of life. For many of the wealthy
class it is a matter of them thinking poor people just don't deserve to be
educated or cared for. It's a prejudice as old as our country.
What a hoot!Is 1aggie serious? Who made him/her America's
free speech censor? People, let's turn the question around.
Should we let 1aggie post anti-conservative comments? Isn't that just what
LDS Liberal, Open Minded Morom and the rest of the liberal posters do? Oh I get
it. They're all the same person. They have to be. There couldn't be
more than one person in Utah that holds those views.Do liberals
understand that even though they own the East Coast newspapers, they don't
own the Deseret News and they were not appointed by our Creator to be
America's censors. They can't make a convincing argument
to support their point of view so they resort to attacking people like M
Richards, J Thompson, Redshirt and other reasonable posters. Isn't that
what Obama does? Doesn't he throw everybody under the bus if their
viewpoint contradicts his?Somebody told us that the "rich
guy" has had enough. I think that most Americans have had enough.
We're all getting tired of the personal attacks. If the left has a point,
let them make it.
So basically the author and the posters here believes the wealthy are five year
olds that are going to take their toys and go home if they don't get their
way? The same way they did when the tax rate was the same throughout the
90's? oh thats right they are not five year olds. Its sad when liberals
think more highly of the rich then so called conservatives.
@ECR "...entitled..."None of us are entitled to health care,
education, or even food, if it means taking from someone else against their
will. Our true entitlement is the freedom to earn these things for ourselves.We do have a moral obligation to help those in need. This doesn't
give the needy a right to take steal from us. Nor does it give anyone the right
to steal in order to give to the needy; we should care for the needy with money
that belongs to us. Nor does it give anyone the right to send the tax collector
to do the stealing for them; a person cannot delegate to others powers which he
himself does not have. A majority cannot grant themselves this right by voting
it to themselves.This is where we've gone wrong, and the reason
why so many people of means are saying enough is enough. You should be grateful
that they put up with your immoral scheme for as long as they did.
With all the people leaving the state with higher rates, these states are just
going to become welfare states. The only people living there will be the people
who can't pack up and leave because they have been living off the
government for so long. And then we will have them going to the federal
government begging for a bail-out, just like California tried to do a few years
ago to force the federal government to buy it's state bonds.When will people stop looking at only the benefits of all the different issues
they want passed and start looking at the costs associated with them. Obama has
approved over $1 trillion in stimulus and is requesting more. Congress
hasn't passed a budget in over 6 months. We have been running a budget
deficit for more than a decade and yet people clamour for more and more of the
government money for this project of that one. What people don't realize is
that they are begging the people in Washington to steal from their children and
"When will the greed ever end?"
Actually, L White, if you reread what I said you will see that I didn't say
people shouldn't be allowed to post, but rather to take up all the oxygen.
And the way to stop that is for the reasonable people (of any persuasion) to
start ignoring the irrational posters who drone on day after day.
Total trash reporting. If this had any weight behind it, you would find no rich
people in California nor New York State - two states with the some of the
highest state income tax rates. And yet, you don't see a whole host of
rich people moving from the peninsula in the bay area to tax havens like Utah
valley. There are so many other factors that drive where people live - taxes
is only a minor factor.... even for the ultra rich.Louie - if you
are paying 63 percent of your income in taxes.... you need a lot of help. A lot
of help. Go find yourself a good accountant or certified financial planner....
because your situation is out of control. Even Frances proposed 75% tax (which
failed to get approved) on had that tax rate on income over and in excess of the
first 3 million dollars earned. I personally never paid more than 25% nominal
tax rate on the total taxes you claim. Romney and Warren Buffet, half of what I
pay. So you are doing something very wrong.... very very wrong.
Is this a proposal to evade taxes? Some people hate anyone and anything that
takes what they hoard out of insecurity.
@J Thompson:"Your reasoning implies that Obama's "tax
holiday" was meant to be temporary;" What part of "tax
holiday" implies otherwise? The law specified how long it would last before
automatically expiring."that everybody knew that he would add
$1,200 per year to their tax bill anytime that he wanted;"No,
everyone knew (or should have known) that the extra money in their paychecks for
two years was temporary. Obama couldn't change that anytime he wanted --
Congress would have to repeal the existing law. "that paying
more in taxes is not an increase;"You're not paying a
higher percentage now than you were in 2010. Without the holiday, your rates
would not have gone up this year and you'd have paid the higher rate for
the past two years. Perhaps you'd prefer that? "Obama ran
a campaign where he told every [m]an (sic) woman and child in America that their
taxes would not increase unless they made more than $250,000 per year."He was discussing *income tax* increases. That's different from
payroll tax. Context matters."but he increased my families
taxes by $1,200 a year"Take it up with Congress for not
extending the holiday.
DeseretNews.com encourages a civil dialogue among its readers. We welcome your thoughtful comments.— About comments