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In our opinion: Abortion's anniversary

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  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Jan. 23, 2013 6:45 a.m.

    The anniversary of abortion? There are historical references of abortion in Egypt. Women have been having abortions in India since anyone there can remember with natural concoctions. Not to mention their outright infanticide issues.

    Nobody likes abortion. But it's simply not an issue the government is prepared to ban because just like a "ban on guns" which wouldn't work, neither would a ban on abortion.

    Can you really investigate every miscarriage as an illegal abortion when something as simple as a fall or herbal concoction can cause a miscarriage? Leave it up to women.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Jan. 23, 2013 7:34 a.m.

    We Can't stop all crimes but can make laws against them.

  • George Bronx, NY
    Jan. 23, 2013 9:04 a.m.

    Higv
    Your right we can but abortion is not a crime and is protected under the consitution just like your precious guns. When you are willing to place the same type of rrestrictions on guns as already exist on abortion let me know we can talk, until then you do not hold any credability.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 23, 2013 9:46 a.m.

    @ George. How can you defend killing an unborn child and calling it a "right"? The blood of the unborn cries to God for justice!

  • George Bronx, NY
    Jan. 23, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    @moutainman
    Because do not start with the very subjective assumption that it is an "unborn child,." And no from past experience there is no reason to waist post trying to change your mind or mine on when life begins.

  • Mukkake Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 10:20 a.m.

    Mountanman:
    [How can you defend killing an unborn child and calling it a "right"?]

    Is "unborn" the opposite of "undead"? Like reverse-zombies?

    [The blood of the unborn cries to God for justice!]

    Blood isn't capable of speech.

    Women aren't just baby factories/farms. Their bodies aren't sacrifices to god(s). If they don't want to be pregnant, they shouldn't have to be. Some women can't afford, don't want to afford, the health costs of a pregnancy.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 23, 2013 10:20 a.m.

    Since 1976, the Deseret News reported that there has been 55,000,000 abortions in America. Let's do the math. 2012 - 1976 = 36 years. 55,000,000 / 36 = 1,528,000 abortions per year. 1,528,000 / 365 = 4,186 abortions per day. 4,186 / 30 = 139 kindergarten classrooms that will never be filled.

    Look at the public outcry when many of the children in ONE classroom were senselessly killed! Look how the President is flying around the country demanding that we do something about that! Look how the Vice-President is stomping his feet and shouting that now is the time to stop these senseless killings.

    Since December 14, 2012, there have been 8,372 "Sandy Hooks" in America. Where is the outrage for those 167,440 unborn children who were torn out of their mothers' womb?

    It is incredible that the same people who demand the right to destroy the unborn with a vacuum or knife or drugs are the same people demanding that 330,000,000 Americans must give up their guaranteed right to keep and bear arms.

    By midnight today, another 122 "Sandy Hooks" classrooms will be empty. Tomorrow, another 209 will be empty.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 23, 2013 10:57 a.m.

    @ George and Mukkake. You are betting the life and agency of an unborn child that life did not begin at conception? Who or what gives you that right to make the choice for other people? If you are wrong, what are the consequences of your actions? How will you answer to God for your actions in taking the life of another human being unborn or not? Abortion as a form of birth control is the ultimate act of selfishness and interferance! Like it or not, whether you believe it or not, we are all going to be accountable to God for our actions. Unfathomable risk you are taking with unborn people's lives! It is ironic to me that the only people who favor abortion as a form of birth control have already been born. Who speaks for the unborn other than God?

  • George Bronx, NY
    Jan. 23, 2013 11:25 a.m.

    @mountain man

    Did it ever occur to you that you maybe wrong and that your desire to limit others free agency may have consequences as well? Under what authority do you claim to limit the free agency of others? I do not tell others to have an abortion, I do not claim the right to make that those types of decisions for others and you do.

  • George Bronx, NY
    Jan. 23, 2013 11:30 a.m.

    @mountainman

    You also seem to be willfully ignoring that I do not accept you subjective premise that it iis an "unborn child. "

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 11:43 a.m.

    All this talk of innocent children.

    20 children were gunned down in an elementary school just last month and people do nothing.

  • Mukkake Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 11:58 a.m.

    Mountanman:
    [Abortion as a form of birth control is the ultimate act of selfishness and interferance!]

    I support a woman's right to make decisions regarding her individual body, health, and use there of. A person's body does not exist for the forcible use of any other person. It does not exist for another to use forcibly for sex (rape), forcibly for manual labor (slavery), or forcibly for birth.

    I would feel far more disgusted with myself to force a person to use their body against their will. If a person doesn't have a right to self, than they don't have any rights.

    A woman is not just a test-tube, she is sentient and her body is her own. She is not "borrowing" her body from the fetus, the fetus is "borrowing" her's, and she can reject that arraignment. She has the right to say no to sex, manual labor, and birth. Why do you care more about a person who doesn't exist then one who does? One that already has thoughts, feelings, and dreams.

    I don't care what her reason is, she shouldn't even need to give one.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Jan. 23, 2013 12:18 p.m.

    George, George, George: Its not me interfering with the right of an person to be born! Its you who are doing that! I want every person conceived to have a birthday! And you have no right to deny them that right! And once again, you do NOT get to decide when conception occurs, that's way, way above your pay grade and for you to do so is evil and wickedness!

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Jan. 23, 2013 12:26 p.m.

    I am no more "alive" at one cell,
    Than I am finally "dead" at one cell.

    The LDS Church's official policy regarding when and under what circumstances aborations may take place is still allowed under the Roe v. Wade ruling.

    Rape, Incest, Life and Health of the Woman, and viability of the fetus are still Constitutional and NOT a sin - evern to Momrons - no matter what false doctrine Mike Richards continues to preach.

    When the Prophet tells us to name and seal the "unborn" - including miscarriages - and disallows for ALL abortions for any reason whatsoever, per the offical GOP platform -- then I will flip over to the darkside.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Jan. 23, 2013 12:30 p.m.

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah
    Since 1976, the Deseret News reported that there has been 55,000,000 abortions in America. Let's do the math....

    Ok, thanks for using math to prove that at least 27,500,000 of them were by Republicans.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 23, 2013 12:34 p.m.

    D&C (dilation and curettage) is a medical procedure commonly used for miscarriages.

    Roe v. Wade Constitutionally affirms and protects that a woman and her Doctor can't go to jail for performing one.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 23, 2013 12:38 p.m.

    Once again we witness the All-or-Nothingisms with total lack of compromise of some extremists [and it seems to emit mostly from the uber-far-right]:

    Federal Budget = all or nothing.
    Elections = all or nothing.
    Guns = all or nothing.
    Gay rights = all or nothing.
    abortion = all or nothing.

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes ~ Obi Wan Kanobi

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Jan. 23, 2013 1:53 p.m.

    The abortion rate has dropped nearly in half in the last 20 years. Why? Couldn't it be at least in part the result of better sex ed? Shouldn't we be investing more in that? We also ought to educate kids in marriage and family success.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 2:19 p.m.

    The best course is for pro-lifers to continue to persuade people on making the right choice once they get pregnant. But, for them to control the only choice goes against free will, the rights of a woman, and what America stands for. If they believe that is murder, that is their right but it is not shared by the fetus's mother or the law of the land.
    In addition to trying to persuade pregnant women on carrying the baby to full term, they should support the use of contraceptives to avoid unwanted pregnancy. But, it seems that a lot of pro-lifers are the same people who disagree with birth control, planned parenthood or insurance mandates supporting prevention.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Jan. 23, 2013 5:02 p.m.

    Were in the consitution is there a right to an abortion? Illegal abortions will occur just as illegal theft occurs. However with punishment there will be less of it. Besides abortion is unconstitional roe vs wade as didn't the 9th and 10th amendment prohibit the supreme court in meddling in that issue.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 5:45 p.m.

    When you can get pregnant you are entitled to an opinion on abortion.

  • red state pride Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 5:59 p.m.

    It seems most of the commentary regarded whether abortion is right or wrong. I think the focus of the editorial tended to be more on the negative societal effects of the decision in Roe V Wade. Correlation may not indicate causation but I really cannot see any positive benefits to the devaluation of human life esp now that we have ultrasound. Another point is that Roe V Wade was wrongly decided and the Supreme Court stepped in and made a decision that should have been left up to States ( many if not most liberals would tend to agree with that). I believe that abortion and gay marriage are issues that individual States should be allowed to address- they should not have either forced upon them by a central government.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 6:22 p.m.

    Illegal? Not constitutionally protected? Do you honk we are in Ireland. According to the law and the subprime court abortion is both legal and constitutional.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 7:40 p.m.

    Red state

    Rights are not a states issue or open to popular vote.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 8:00 p.m.

    @ Mountanman 9:46 a.m. Jan. 23, 2013

    Wow! You need some work on context & syntax. George (at 9:04a) meant that Higv was correct. Hannity & Beck have taught you well.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Jan. 23, 2013 9:12 p.m.

    bebyebe do you beleive in the Bill of rights? I think the 1st amendment applies to all not those that just happen to agree with you. Declaration of Independence mentions rights. Constitution prohibits taking life without due process. Seven justices gave someone the right to take away there unborn child. Two dissented. Dred Scott was supreme court right there? Right to take life of unborn no were in constitution.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Jan. 24, 2013 7:38 a.m.

    Larry no one wante offensive wars, Are we to lay prostrate on the ground though? Death penalty says you value life of victim. And that murderer chose to take life. Fetuses didn't choose to be impregnated. Sometimes war is necessary as is capital punishment though good people wish either of those things didn't need to take place.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 24, 2013 9:35 a.m.

    higv
    Dietrich, ID

    Fetuses didn't choose to be impregnated.

    =======

    And neither did the victims of Rape or Incest.

    but I agree with some of what you said -
    Sometimes abortion is necessary, because good people wish those things didn't need to take place.

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Jan. 24, 2013 1:45 p.m.

    To my thinking, parental rights are a sacred issue.

    Parents must have the right to make important decisions about their children, including whether and when to have them. No government agency or Church should dare trample parental rights with reckless abandon.

    It seems to me right and reasonable that a parent, exercising her parental rights, can make life or death medical decisions about her child. For instance, the law empowers a parent to decide to withhold life-sustaining medical technology from a child that is brain-dead and in a vegetative state. The law empowers a parent to decide to subject a child to life-threatening surgeries.

    In this same spirit, the decision in Roe vs Wade set a standard that empowers a woman to make the important decision to terminate the "life support" her body is providing to a fetus when the fetus is "brain dead" and in a vegetative state.

    I see no problem with that.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Jan. 24, 2013 4:42 p.m.

    how many dead children over that 40 years? how many lives - that could have been - but never were? What a sick and selfish society we live in. We loath the Nazi's for their disrespect for human life and yet we champion the death of millions of children? Again - what a sick society. A womans's right to choose or a womans's right to kill - which is it? And by the way, who gave that woman the right to kill her child? Certainly not the creator. One thing is an absolute truth here - those involved in abortion in any way - mother, father, doctor, politician all have blood on their hands and will be judged by a higher court - beyond the veil - where there are no special interest groups or corrupt judges or politicians. "Thou shalt not kill and he who killeth shall be in danger of hell fire". One other thing is certain too - death. We all face it and we have NO choice as to what happens next.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Jan. 24, 2013 9:06 p.m.

    In the early 2000s, the National Center for Health Statistics found that while contraception use in American women had been climbing for decades, it stalled in the 1990s. Loss of access for poorer women seemed to be the sole reason for this troubling trend, which led to an explosion in unplanned pregnancy, and therefore abortion. While poor women have seen a spike, women in the middle class continued to see unplanned pregnancies decline.

    The most recent data suggests that the disparity has only gotten larger. Today, a full 42 percent of women having abortions live under the poverty line, and another 27 percent have incomes within 200 percent of the poverty line. Taken together, 69 percent of women who have abortions are economically disadvantaged

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Jan. 25, 2013 8:19 a.m.

    Guess it's not a person when it's up against your bottom line?

    A Catholic hospital in Colorado has argued in court documents that it is not liable for the deaths of two 7-month-old fetuses because those fetuses are not people. (USA Today)

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 25, 2013 10:31 a.m.

    patriot
    Cedar Hills, UT

    We loath the Nazi's for their disrespect for human life...

    =========
    Yes,
    The Nazi gassed millions;
    Liberals, Immigrants, Communists, Homosexuals, Non-Christians, Poor & Homeless, Terminally Sick & Elderly.

    BTW - The Nazis also banned abortions.



    "Thou shalt not kill and he who killeth shall be in danger of hell fire".
    Ironic, coming from the pro-Death Penalty, Pro-war, Pro-gun advocates.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Jan. 25, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    I believe the decision to have an abortion (certainly an early term one) should be between the mother and her doctor.

    That said, Roe v Wade strikes me as one of the most egregious acts of judicial activism (Dred Scott comes to mind as well) as we have ever seen.

    SC Judges should not be judged based on preferred outcomes but rather on how they interpret the Constitution and their level of judicial restraint (i.e., deference to the legislative process). Otherwise, we do not live in a democracy but in a dictatorship of the black-robed nine.

  • pelon Las Vegas, NV
    Jan. 25, 2013 3:20 p.m.

    Mountanman Hayden, ID, God through Jesus Christ gave us the right to choice what ever we wanted to do on this earth during our life time no matter what it was. Making abortion against the law you are preventing people from the agency God has given us, if God didn't want us to have a choice to have abortions he would have let Satan be the leader and force us to do right.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Jan. 26, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    Between a third and a half of all fertilized eggs do not implant in the uterus and, therefore, do not establish a pregnancy . Those fertilied eggs are washed away during the woman's next period without gestation ever occurring and without the woman who produced the egg even knowing tht fertilization had occurred (the same thing that emergency conraception promotes). Of the pregnancies that are established, between a quarter and a third self-terminate in the first trimester, and many more self-terminate in the second and third trimester.

    Nature is in no way protective of, or concerned about, the products of conception. To the people who are SOOOO concerned about fertilized eggs that don't go on to establish a pregnancy -- do you also condemn "Mother Nature" for "her" actions in preventing the pregancy from starting, or terminating it before the pregnancy concludes ith a birth?

    It seems to me that the concern should be for the actual, living, breathing life-in-being -- the woman -- rather than something which may become a human being if the pregnancy runs to conclusion without "Mother Nature" intervening.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Jan. 28, 2013 2:00 p.m.

    Scientist-

    Your assertion that fetuses are brain dead and vegetative are incorrect. Fetuses respond to stimuli, unlike brain dead and vegetative people.

    Nice try at rationalizing a heinous act, but it doesn't fly in the light of science.

  • ApacheNaiche PINETOP, AZ
    Feb. 17, 2013 7:55 p.m.

    It seems strange that everyone who is pro abortion has already been born.