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Letter: 'Liberty dies with thunderous applause'

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  • homebrew South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 25, 2013 9:23 a.m.

    Libert dies,, Death of america,, End of liberty, marxist, communist, wasnt born here. If president Obama somehow created world peace, The GOP would say he ruined the defense industry. Dillusional republicans. After 9-11 when over 3,000 americans were killed, Republicans like rudi Gulliani, in the 2004 campaign would say that George Bush"Kept us safe" How did Bush keep us safe, when 9-11 happened right under his nose.?? This is the kind of dillusional thinking that has envelouped the republican party, both on Hate radio, and Faux News. Dillusion. Alternate reality. Come back to reality people, and try a little science, and reason for once. Living in a fairytale where Ronny Reagan was the "Greatest president ever" is getting old. Reagan Quadrupled our national debt. CONservatives!!

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Jan. 21, 2013 10:19 p.m.

    "We currently have laws against murder, robbery, fraud, assault, abuse, speeding and countless other issues, and not one of these has prevented people from breaking the law."

    Well alrighty then... there's a whole laundry list of laws that are obviously no longer needed. And no doubt the rates of occurrence will remain unchanged after we get rid of them.

    But seriously, thanks for pointing out just how bad our education system is. Although that's probably unfair; after all, as the saying goes, you can't fix stu...

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 21, 2013 8:53 p.m.

    Re: "When are the gun advocates going to take responsibility for making it possible to shoot the good guys?"

    I suppose whenever liberals and anti-gun advocates take responsibility for all the permissive promotion and enabling of bad stuff that makes the bad guys bad in the first place.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 21, 2013 8:11 p.m.

    Jack47
    Sandy, UT

    NOTHING: a magazine (no, it is not called a CLIP) is nothing more than a small metal box with a spring, and it would be trivial for determined criminals to get around this law even if 100% of all larger capacity magazines in this country were seized and sales of new ones prohibited.

    2:17 p.m. Jan. 21, 2013

    =============

    Except that if they did break the law,
    whatever they did would be added upon.

    Kind of like --
    Drunk Driving,
    and an open container,
    and speeding,
    and driving without a license,
    and without insurance,
    and without a seatbelt,
    and, and, and...

    You see -
    if a criminal IS breaking one law,
    They most likely are braking many others as well.

    Might as well throw them in the clink for EVERYTHING they did wrong.

    Same goes for those committing crimes with guns.
    Pass the laws.
    and if they break them -- throw the book at them.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2013 5:05 p.m.

    Hey look at that, another gun nut that has absolutely no clue what he's talking about.

  • Jack47 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 21, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    "Exceptionally mild and sensible firearms regulations currently proposed"? There is NOTHING mild about the current administration's proposals. If these were fully implemented then about 47% of all weapons currently in circulation would be deemed illegal. For example, most hand gun magazines in Utah hold 13-15 rounds, yet the president would limit it to 10 rounds or less. This would accomplish NOTHING: a magazine (no, it is not called a CLIP) is nothing more than a small metal box with a spring, and it would be trivial for determined criminals to get around this law even if 100% of all larger capacity magazines in this country were seized and sales of new ones prohibited.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 21, 2013 8:51 a.m.

    The Military and the Police are "required", "restricted" and "regulated" to secure their assault weapons in armories and guns safes.

    It's not a Constitutional requirement -- it's called COMMON SENSE.

    The Fouding Father's didn't spell everything out in the Constitution because they expected enlighted, intelligent humans to use it.

    Meanwhile --
    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure.

    Use some common sense, and avoid the problem all together.

  • omni scent taylorsville, UT
    Jan. 21, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    I want to play the Star Wars III quote game:

    "So Uncivilized" -Obi Wan Kenobi (reffering to a gun)

    Just wondering: which of the 23 executive orders takes away your liberty? Please be specific of which and how.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Jan. 21, 2013 8:15 a.m.

    "Secure your guns or be held responsible."

    Exactly!! Gun ownership is a huge responsibility. Guns need to be locked up.

    Gun owners who do not take reasonable measures to secure their weapons should be prosecuted when unsecured weapons are used to kill.

    Gun advocates should take the lead in this rather than working to insure that NO precautions are mandated.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 21, 2013 6:18 a.m.

    "Re: "A 15 year old in New Mexico is under arrest for the shooting deaths of a man, a woman, and 3 children last night. Numerous weapons were used - including a semi-automatic military assault rifle..."

    Which clearly proves we need access to "military assault rifles," so we're not outgunned by the next murderous 15-year-old who may be gunning for US."

    Exacty - keeping 15 year olds away from guns they don't have a right to have would be far to much work. I mean - had that gun had a gun lock on it, I am sure the kid would have done just as much damage.... right?

    These are the most stupid arguments ever. The idea we all need to be packing so that when someone takes our parking place, we can duke it out like th OK coarral. I personally think that who ever owned the gun the 15 year old used needs to be prosecuted right next to the kid as an accessory to the crime. Secure your guns or be held responsible.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 21, 2013 12:18 a.m.

    The bad guy in NM...was a 15 year old child...who had access to guns.

    When are the gun advocates going to take responsibility for making it possible to shoot the good guys?

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 10:13 p.m.

    Re: "A 15 year old in New Mexico is under arrest for the shooting deaths of a man, a woman, and 3 children last night. Numerous weapons were used - including a semi-automatic military assault rifle..."

    Which clearly proves we need access to "military assault rifles," so we're not outgunned by the next murderous 15-year-old who may be gunning for US.

    I just have to grin each time liberals triumphantly trumpet that someone's been murdered by a bad guy with a gun. They actually seem to believe it proves THEIR point.

    When it actually proves just the opposite -- it's always bad when the good guys are outgunned by the bad guys.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Jan. 20, 2013 7:52 p.m.

    I got an email last year from someone I know that was sent to 50+ addresses. It told how Obama was going to take "in God we trust" off of the money. It talked about how we should protest loudly in the streets about this great crisis.

    When I responded to him with facts about how this was not going to happen, I never heard back from him. I am quite sure he never told any of the others either. He did not thank me or express happiness that this terrible deed was not going to happen.

    Proving once again that the right would rather be outraged by lies than satisfied with the truth.

    The same goes with guns.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 5:38 p.m.

    Re: "No one is coming to take away your guns."

    So, I have your word on that? If anyone comes for my gun, I can tell them Peter Coyotl says they can't have it, and they'll back off, right?

    I'm reasonably certain some mob apologist told the Nauvoo saints no one was coming for their guns, as well. How is this situation different?

    Or different from Canada? Or WWI-era Russia? Or '20s Germany, '40s China and Korea, or '50s Cuba?

    You have zero authority over the anti-gun nuts, zero consensus to speak for them.

    Suggesting we must acquiesce in wanton destruction of a little freedom only emboldens evil people to seek more.

    And, tell you what, if you'll agree I'm a better judge of how many rounds I need in my magazine, I'll agree to let you decide how many speeds on your mountain bike, how many lugs on your hiking shoe, how many D-rings to climb with or how long your skis.

    Or how many ounces of alcohol in your strawberry cooler.

  • wingnutty Casa Grande, AZ
    Jan. 20, 2013 3:09 p.m.

    I agree with Yoda and Reagan.

    Regarding handguns, Reagan stated, "This level of violence must be stopped. ... If the passage of the Brady bill were to result in a reduction of only 10 or 15 percent of those numbers (and it could be a good deal greater), it would be well worth making it the law of the land."

    How is it different now? Fear is the only thing that's different.

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 2:42 p.m.

    3 thoughts;

    The average person does not need to be as well armed as the police/military, If you can't buy cars at the car show; why should you be able to buy guns at a gun show?, & Only the Sith think in terms of absolutes.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 2:28 p.m.

    In other news making headlines today...

    A 15 year old in New Mexico is under arrest for the shooting deaths of a man, a woman, and 3 children last night.

    Numerous weapons were used - including a semi-automatic military assault rifle...

    But nah -- we don't need ANY restrictions now, do we?...

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 1:33 p.m.

    2013

    You still have your guns.

    The claim continues to be proven a lie.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Jan. 20, 2013 1:29 p.m.

    Eliminating all laws would require LAWMAKERS to make a law to eliminate the others. Too bad.

    What did you expect lawmakers to do? Make baskets?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 12:51 p.m.

    @Emajor
    "I'm starting to think that the Deseret News actually supports gun control"

    Actually maybe they do to some extent, they are owned by a church that doesn't allow guns in meetinghouses and at their college campuses.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    Oh please... the only reason you would have to fear a background check with gun show purchases is if you're someone who would fail a background check and have been exploiting a loophole.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    Spencer;

    Liberty died when states began putting the rights of certain Americans up to a popular vote. You can't complain about "liberty dying" when you participate in killing it yourself.

  • Peter Coyotl West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    No one is coming to take away your guns. Some people seem to live for the drama.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 10:36 a.m.

    While we're quoting Star Wars, let me have a shot!

    "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

    - Yoda

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    Of course --

    Stupid, trival, and non-sensical laws restricting - say,
    "Walking and Chewing Gum"
    never come up on this guys radar.

    Only laws guns restricitng the high capacity weapons used to mow down massive groups of unarmed citizens.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 9:58 a.m.

    You know, I thought of that same line when the patriot act was introduced. I don't think too much of anyones' freedom is being lost to the proposed gun restriction measures. I applaud the president for having the courage to even attempt it. And I fear for a future where people are so reactionary that nothing can get done, big or small.

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    He didn't even quote from a good Star Wars movie.

    I'm starting to think that the Deseret News actually supports gun control, because there have been an awful lot of really uninformed and irrational pro-gun letters published here recently. When gun advocates wax paranoid about restrictions the President isn't even calling for, they do their cause a great disservice.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    Spencer Smith says "We currently have laws against murder, robbery, fraud, assault, abuse, speeding and countless other issues, and not one of these has prevented people from breaking the law."

    God's first commandment is "Thou shall not kill", yet man does this every hour. By your logic, should we toss out the Bible?

    The purpose of commandments and laws is to set the line of punishment. You are not shackled. You have free will. You can choose to cross the line and be punished.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 20, 2013 8:59 a.m.

    Ok..... so let me follow this logic. The keep from having people break laws.... we should get rid of lows. From the first chapters of the bible, there were laws, and just as quick they were broken.... and there were consequences. The notion that the lack of laws will create a more law abiding civilization baffles logic. Are we to expect so little of each other that we choose to lower the moral bar in society so less people are in violation of moral principles?

    In a perfect world, where you live all by yourself, and your actions impact no one but yourself, then yes, laws are needless. But that isn't the world we live in. Like it or not, nearly every action you take impacts another. Your liberty doesn't get to trump someone else' liberty. That is why we have laws.

    Just yesterday, 5 people were hurt at gun shows, because people didn't obey basic safety laws about transporting loaded weapons. Eliminating these laws would not have would not have improved safety. But those who choose to obey those laws did prevent other needless accidents from happening.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 8:54 a.m.

    And we need to close the Patent Office, everything has already been invented.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 8:39 a.m.

    Violence escalates with too many assault weapons and large capacity magazines good for only mass murder or playing Rambo at the range.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 8:27 a.m.

    Lets get rid of all laws then since people will always break them.

    And yes, the presidents new moderate reforms was definitely comparable to the emperor dissolving the government in Star Wars 3.

    My only question is, where was this letter writer when Bush passed the Patriot Act or invaded Iraq? Oh yeah, just remembered, too busy applauding.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Jan. 20, 2013 8:02 a.m.

    I think one of the biggest problems in our culture is when people look to Star Wars or other such entertainment for their wisdom. Heaven help us.

    One of the reasons we have more laws is because people choose to willfully disregard the rights of others. I recall a conversation with some workmates where one fellow was trumpeting the intentions of a local developer who wanted to build houses but would prohibit lawyers from purchasing any of them. All the lawyer haters in the grouped yukked it up for a while but then we discussed the fact that the local, state or federal legislators would eventually find it necessary to pass a law prohibiting the exclusion of lawyers, or any other group, from purchasing property or there would be a civil rights case taking up time on the Supreme Court's docket addressing this silly problem simply because someone wanted to deny someone else of their civil rights.

    If you want make a change in the world, take a look in the mirror and start with your own behavior.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Jan. 20, 2013 7:49 a.m.

    Yes, show us how wise you are by quoting a Star Wars movie as if it were something profound...

    Republicans propose and try to get laws passed all the time, but I'm guessing that doesn't bother you that much, right?

    I've said it before and I'll probably say it again, but Obama won. Time to get over it.

  • micawber Centerville, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 7:30 a.m.

    Mr. Smith expresses a pretty cynical view. Does he really think we would have fewer murders and robberies if there were no laws against them? Some people disobey the law, but many obey.

    And I don't think it is wise to look to the Star Wars movies (especially Episode III), for political philosophy.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 6:10 a.m.

    Spencer, you make an eloquent argument for eliminating all laws: if we have no law, then there will be no crime. Eloquent, but wrong. If we want civilization instead of anarchy, there must be laws. The challenge is to enact and enforce wise laws. Law, like truth, will make you free. Reasonable regulation of the possession and use of dangerous instruments does not infringe liberty; it enables and enhances it.

    Learn a lesson from Korihor, who preached, falsely, that "whatsoever a man did was no crime."

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 5:28 a.m.

    The capacity for irrational melodrama among conservatives is apparently limitless.

    Look, your liberty is no more threatened by the exceptionally mild and sensible firearms regulations currently proposed than they are when someone tells you that you can't walk around a shopping mall with hand grenades on your belt.

    Could you guys _please_ step away from your knee-jerk rhetoric about Obama long enough for a grown-up conversation about America's staggering gun violence problem?