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Letters: Political rhetoric has no place in church services

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  • antodav TAMPA, FL
    Jan. 23, 2013 10:46 a.m.

    There is in fact a single correct political ideology that can be derived from a proper and complete understanding of the Scriptures. God does indeed have his way that he would like to see the world run. But it is not to be found in the platforms of either of the two major American political parties, at least not in its fullness. And God has chosen to let us simply exercise our agency on this matter instead of having prophets force his way upon us. For that I am grateful, to some extent at least. The world would certainly be a much better place if we would all just do what we're supposed to. But then we'd never learn.

    All I have to say about this is thank God I don't live in Utah, with all these "cultural Mormons" who come to church but don't understand or practice the Gospel at all. I hope I will never have to move out there, but if I do, at least I will be prepared for it now. I got enough political pushback in the last year from fellow Church members to last a lifetime.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 6:39 p.m.

    @wrz
    it is a "fact"? no, sorry, it is your political view. There is no threat to your attending church on Sunday. There are limits on your ability to impose your views of religion (one not shared by all LDS members) on secular society outside the walls of church but they do not interfere with your ability to worship.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 5:28 p.m.

    Informed Voter
    South Jordan, UT

    Yet, I also cannot understand why active LDS members support the democrat party with its strident position on abortion - including late term and partial birth abortion.

    10:39 p.m. Jan. 19, 2013

    =============

    You've never wlaked in another shoes ---

    My good LDS mother and my good LDS wife both had abortions.
    Health of the Woman for one,
    viability of the fetus for the other.

    It's NONE of you business.

    As for the other --
    I had a Stake High Councilman and former Bishopric member who was an OB/GYN.

    He was grateful for the Gospel of Jesus Christ and living prophets and apostles who supported his medical expertice, and allowed him and the "good LDS" women he treated that they were not committing "sin" for what they needed to medically do at times.

    He was grateful for the Government who allowed them the freedom to choice, without pllitcal or religous bigots telling him what to do.

    And he was grateful they he never needed to worry about going to jail for doing the best he could do.

    Your whacky "No abortions ever" stance also meant no D&C procedures (dilation and curettage) for still borns.

  • Cool Cat Cosmo Payson, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 8:42 a.m.

    @ the Taxman;

    Back in Massachusetts, and I was the minority there.

  • Informed Voter South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 10:39 p.m.

    I agree politics does not belong in church. Yet, I also cannot understand why active LDS members support the democrat party with its strident position on abortion - including late term and partial birth abortion. Obama three times as an Illinois senator sponsored bills forbidding doctors from saving the lives of infants who survived abortions. Also gay marriage is a fundamental position of the democrat party. The democrats are also showing their disdain and disregard for the Constitution. The party also is spending this country into oblivion. This is not the democrat party of 30 years ago. And the current administration and democrat members of Congress are plainly attacking religious liberty. If you do not see and believe the above points, it is shocking.

  • The Taxman Los Angeles, CA
    Jan. 19, 2013 8:35 p.m.

    Re:wrz

    "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is politically neutral and does not endorse or promote any candidate, party or platform. Accordingly, we hope that the campaign practices of political candidates would not suggest that their candidacy is supported by or connected to the church.
    "The so-called 'White Horse Prophecy' is based on accounts that have not been substantiated by historical research and is not embraced as Church doctrine."
    (LDS Church Newsroom January 6, 2010)

    "openly discuss their POLITICAL beliefs during the Prop 8 campaign, and they HAVE NOT stopped."

    Note: i did not say Prop 8 shouldn't have been discussed in church.

    I've yet to see a church instructional manual that recommends abortion be discussed. If instructors adhered to church instructional material and the scriptures, many of these issues would be resolved.

  • Alfred Ogden, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 7:47 p.m.

    @Mike Richards:
    "Talking politics over the pulpit is not allowed in any ward of the LDS Church that I have ever attended."

    That's basically so the church can keep it's tax exempt status. All churches are faced with the same problem... Some churches in the south preach politics over the pulpit and are having to deal with the tax status issue.

    "Christ discussed politics. ('Render unto Caesar . . . ').

    That was not a political discussion. He was essentially saying: Please keep church and state separate.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 7:35 p.m.

    @George:
    "@WRZ, why would your very political bias that 'the constitution is hanging by a thread' have any place in church?"

    In the first place, it's not a political bias... It's the truth. It's happening as we speak. Secondly, it has a place in church in order to assure the church has an environment to thrive in.

    @The Taxman:
    "wrz, thank you for illustrating the problem. The example you just gave is not Church doctrine..."

    A church official uttered the words... thus making it, essentially, church doctrine.

    "I believe the reason for that is our ward is full of obnoxious right-wing authoritarian followers who believe they are 'perfect in their obedience' but are amoral."

    I would guess that description included all but thee.

    "People in our ward at least seem to feel like they were "green-lighted" by the Church to openly discuss their political beliefs during the Prop 8 campaign, and they have not stopped."

    Prop 8, abortion, etc., are perfectly legit issues to discuss in church. Just because some state authority gave an issue a number should not preclude discussions in church (in my view).

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Jan. 19, 2013 6:05 p.m.

    It's definitely harder to express my views as a progressive than it was when I ignorantly followed the conservative path. When I argued god, guns and it's the other guys fault everyone agreed with me.

    Now that I want to take care of the sick and poor and turn guns into pruning hooks all I get are nasty stink eyes.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 5:35 p.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil:
    "@WRZ - perhaps true.... but these discussion should never fall to promoting or disparaging a person or party."

    In the end, it's the persons/parties that are the hanging thread issue. These guys have to be discussed and eventually tossed out of office if there is to a correction of the problem.

    "And in the end, how we live the gospel has nothing to do with the political structure we live in."

    Yes, but there are sufficient folk who don't/won't live the gospel to collapse the system around our ears. Look at it this way: We all live in a long, long boat sitting in a pond. Some way down at one end and some at another. If the guys in the other end of the boat start drilling a hole in the bottom of the boat, we'll all sink... together. They may tell you to stay out of their business. But the stability of the boat is every body's business. They must be stopped if you are to survive. The other guys doesn't care whether they survive or not. That's how it works. That's why we must all be involved.

  • Thinkin\' Man Rexburg, ID
    Jan. 19, 2013 12:34 p.m.

    Anyone making political comments in church is doing so against church policy, and should be called out on it. That is the Bishop's responsibility, but members need to start taking exception to inappropriate statements. "Polite" does not mean "capitulatory."

  • The Taxman Los Angeles, CA
    Jan. 19, 2013 10:17 a.m.

    @wrz
    "If the 'Constitution is to hang by a thread,' it would seem appropriate and imperative that the why's and wherefore's be thoroughly discussed in church in order for adherents to do what they can to head off that eventuality."

    wrz, thank you for illustrating the problem. The example you just gave is not Church doctrine and therefore it is NOT appropriate and certainly NOT imperative to discuss it in church.

    We have not had a single convert in my ward in the last 4 years. I believe the reason for that is our ward is full of obnoxious right-wing authoritarian followers who believe they are "perfect in their obedience" but are amoral. Any progressive, or even non-authoritarian personality would be quickly turned-off and would not be a candidate to join.

    People in our ward at least seem to feel like they were "green-lighted" by the Church to openly discuss their political beliefs during the Prop 8 campaign, and they have not stopped.

    @ Cool Cat
    Where have you been in a ward with more that a few liberals? I have lived traveled and lived around the USA and I don't believe that exists here.

  • George Bronx, NY
    Jan. 19, 2013 10:02 a.m.

    @WRZ
    why would your very political bias that "the consecution is hanging by a thread" have any place in church. you really did nothing but affirm the letter writers claims.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 19, 2013 7:21 a.m.

    @WRZ - perhaps true.... but these discussion should never fall to promoting or disparaging a person or party. You can discuss topics - defense of marriage - and not have it become "political". For example, the church doesn't prescribe an a correct answer on topics like the death penalty.

    And in the end, how we live the gospel has nothing to do with the political structure we live in. There are good people living the gospel under much harsher and repressive conditions that we do. The Savior himself lived, and taught under the most harsh of conditions.... and yet succeeded in achieving his earthly mission. Church needs to be focused on the building up of the saints, and frankly non of that has anything to do with the constitutional right to bear arms. Not that that right isn't worthy of discussion, it just isn't consistent with what needs to be taught in the four walls of the church.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Jan. 19, 2013 6:44 a.m.

    Redshirt, there is no liberal stance that premarital sex is encouraged. Other peoples beliefs and practices are simply tolerated in return for tolerance.

    I'd add that premarital sex is tolerated by the majority of self proclaimed christian, religious conservatives as well or your numbers would be very few indeed.

  • Cool Cat Cosmo Payson, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 12:26 a.m.

    Having seen both sides of the political spectrum in the wards I've lived in, I realize that politics can certainly be a divisive issue. However, if we feel that we have gotten to the point where we can't about it in a civil manner, that worries me.

    I have been in wards and branches that are full of conservatives, as well as liberals, and people from both sides would spout off their political ideas. I think it is good to have moderation in all things, and though you may be the minority, at least you are providing a voice that often needs to be heard, so don't quit, but be civil and think of what Christ would do :)

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:37 p.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil: "Church needs to be a refuge from man made conflict..."

    Specific teachings sometimes help bring the issues into church discussions... If the 'Constitution is to hang by a thread,' it would seem appropriate and imperative that the why's and wherefore's be thoroughly discussed in church in order for adherents to do what they can to head off that eventuality.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 8:07 p.m.

    re: Mike Richards 9:05 a.m. Jan. 18, 2013

    **Christ discussed politics. ("Render unto Caesar . . . ")**

    This, like the wall Jefferson mentioned to the Danbury Baptists, is a reminder to keep the secular & religious seperate

    "As usual, many are using politics as a way to attack the LDS Church. If they believed in "loving their neighbor", would they constantly be on the attack?"

    What about those going on the offense who believe deity is on their side?

    But, then Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Ironic really as I've never encountered a comfy chair at a church

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 7:48 p.m.

    2 Mike R...

    Letting church authorities handle the matter makes the situation worse.

  • Kim Cedar Park, Texas
    Jan. 18, 2013 6:53 p.m.

    This last election cycle with an LDS presidential candidate really got the LDS political passions flowing stronger than with other elections. Hopefully this will die down as time goes on and people realize that the world is not going to end because Romney lost. There is no political party that embodies LDS doctrine. All parties have elements that are harmonious with LDS beliefs and elements that are not. Also, I have never met an individual of either party that believes 100% of their party's platform. Because both parties must appeal to a broad spectrum of individuals, they each have broad platforms intended to attract as many as possible. LDS members can thrive in both of them.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Jan. 18, 2013 6:06 p.m.

    Might as well add my two cents. I have lived all over this country in some of the wards that I attended have had this problem. It is not unique to Utah. In one memorable sacrament meeting I heard a political joke told from the pulpit about Hillary Clinton and her "It takes a community" book. I was sufficiently offended that I eventually discussed it with A home teacher, A bishop, and even a state president. I did not name names but I wanted them to understand that I found political commentary out of line and offensive. Their response in each case was extremely tempered. They made me feel like I was the one out of line for even bringing it up. Perhaps they thougt that my complaint was made to create discord.

    More reccently, however I think that Bishops have been making it clear that political talk has no place in church meetings. but, given the cultural norms of that pretty typical LDS ward, my discomfort at the joke's telling was the exception to say the least. Most of the ward laughed at the joke with considerable glee.

  • Arm of Orion Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    Flashback I don't think that the people in this letter and comment board care whether someone is speaking about politics in the hallway or the foyer. What they and I have a problem with is when teachers, speakers, and leaders use the pulpit to spout their political rhetoric. The problem with this is that it distracts from the purpose of church which is to learn of God and his gospel. For as Christ said "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is Gods."

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 18, 2013 4:49 p.m.

    @redshirt

    "For example, the LDS church teaches that pre-marital sex is wrong. There are some political philosophies that teach that not only is pre-marital sex ok, but that sex can be with any consenting person regardless of gender."

    Ok.... are we being serious now? You asked after that "Please explain how to teach LDS doctrine without getting political philosophy in there?"

    two quick points. There is no linkage between "conservativeness" and pre-martial sex.... at all. How many times have we seen significant political leaders on both side of the isle fall from grace because of this issue. I can promise you the problem is just as rampant with republican congress people - even those from the great state of Utah - as it is with liberal congress people.

    how can a liberal instructor make that claim ..... not hard at all. LIberals believe exactly what the founding fathers said - We the People - this government is made of of the people, for the people, and by the people to do the peoples business..... a concept conservatives just don't get. The people and the government are inseparable, and until you get that, you wont understand.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Jan. 18, 2013 4:02 p.m.

    Redshirt and All,

    My Stake Presidents and Bishops seemed to have figured out how to address such concepts well without delving into politics.

    I think Elder Oaks said it best:

    "Those who govern their thoughts and actions solely by the principles of liberalism or conservatism or intellectualism cannot be expected to agree with all of the teachings of the gospel of Jesus Christ. As for me, I find some wisdom in liberalism, some wisdom in conservatism, and much truth in intellectualism – but I find no salvation in any of them."

    Although there are intersections here and there, politics is not the Gospel, and the Gospel is not politics. We would do well to keep them separate. Otherwise we risk teaching "for doctrines the commandments of men". Those who hear us might then, justifiably, reject the "gospel" we teach.

    I would not wish to stand before the Savior and explain why my political opinions taught in a Church environment became stumbling blocks to investigators or other members.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 3:51 p.m.

    Judging from several other comments here, my experiences in church are not unique.

    Someone suggested challenging those who spout off. I've tried and it only made things much worse. I try to ignore it, but it ain't easy. Going to the our Bishop was no help.

    Some Sundays I just stay home and watch the Choir and the Spoken Word. It's a lot less stressful and much more spiritual.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 3:45 p.m.

    I would agree that some things are best left alone at church but, I say to all of you ticked off about this, grow up! It's the same as comments about BYU Vs. Utah in football. Get over yourselves.

    The bar was set pretty low many years ago by a prominent church member regarding political speech in church.

    Obviously none of you have ever been to Priesthood meeting in my ward. I've heard it go both ways. I could care less, and I don't have rabbit ears in the hallways after church or before church. WE have a very vocal liberal in our ward and he's the one that spouts most of the political rhetoric. I'm still his friend. When he spouts, I just patiently refute his points with logic.

    I'm sure that some of you would be offended by us having gun discussions in the chapel right before and after sacrament meeting, and even sometimes in the hallways. (insert Twilight Zone theme song here)

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 3:45 p.m.

    Redshirt,
    Proposition 8 demonstrated that LDS Church leadership isn't shy when it comes to direct doctrinal issues. Don't you think that if they perceived LDS doctrine and liberal (by American standards) philosophy to be incongruous, they would just come out and say so? And by not actually endorsing the Republican party, doesn't that indicate they see some problems with the Republican platform as well?

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 3:40 p.m.

    @redshirt
    where did I say that "when the political philosophy contradicts God's truth we should state that it is wrong." What is so hard to understand about simply stating the church teachings no sex before marriage, there is no need to mention politics at all. if you choice to believe that means all liberals bad and wrong then that is your choice but it is not church doctrine so leave it out off church.
    please site the verse for us where it say that the government cannot help the poor. regardless of what the government does you have an obligation to help others plain and simple no reason to bring government into the discussion at church simply teach the doctrine.

    Some of us choose not to use our religion as a political weapon and would appreciate if you would show the same restraint at least at church is that really so hard to do?

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Jan. 18, 2013 3:04 p.m.

    To "Tolstoy" so what you are saying is that we should simply state that liberals is wrong. We are talking philosophy of the "world" vs. God's doctrine.

    Again, you say that when the political philosophy contradicts God's truth we should state that it is wrong. Politics are not the issue, the issue is modern liberal philosophy, which is often in direct contradiction to LDS teachings.

    The question about helping those in need is not about the actual help. The question is who does the helping. Is it better for society if we are concerned for eachother individually or if we wait for the government to do something to help others?

    Think of it this way, would you feel better if your neighbor came over to your house or if the police had to stop by to do a well check?

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Jan. 18, 2013 2:37 p.m.

    Tolstoy,

    Precisely. I have heard these concepts successfully discussed for decades without venturing into the political realm. Not to say a few have not wandered a bit. But generally, you can figure it out.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 2:11 p.m.

    @redshirt
    How do we discuss remaining pure? Gee I dont know maybe they way they did when I was a kids, simply state that you should not have sex outside of marriage, period end of sentence, see no politics just the facts.
    with regards to helping each other, why do you need to pull the government in at al just simply state as the did when I was that we should help one another. the rest of it is purely your politics sorry redshirt.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Jan. 18, 2013 1:40 p.m.

    To "Carol Peterson" the problem is that much of the political philosophies (not parties) that are taught by the world are in direct contradiction to LDS teachings.

    For example, the LDS church teaches that pre-marital sex is wrong. There are some political philosophies that teach that not only is pre-marital sex ok, but that sex can be with any consenting person regardless of gender.

    Please explain how to teach LDS doctrine without getting political philosophy in there?

    For you liberals, explain how an instructor is to explain that we should personally care for our neighbors and not rely on others (government) to do it for us without it getting political and offending somebody?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    Ok.... so this doesn't happen much.... but I don't think Mike Richards said anything too wrong here. This is a local problem.

    Listen, in this part of the country, we used to have bishops who would instruct elders serving in their wards to not teach blacks, nor bring them to church. Fortunately, that is an issue of the past - not too distant past - but past none the less. I once had a child in my class whom the other kids nick named Oreo... for obvious reasons.

    There were black members who lived in these wards who suffered the indignity of this in silence. It takes the courage of a few to start change. I have one member of my current ward leadership that I do not agree with politically... in the extreme. He is a fine man in most other aspects. But he and I have had numerous discussions about things that are inappropriate to be said as a leader in the church. We still don't agree with everything, but at least we talk.

    @One old Man, I have gotten up and left meetings because of stupid people, but never the church. They aren't worth it.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:16 a.m.

    Last post.

    Finally, when my child chose to attend the #2 university in the U.S. for his major instead of BYU, he received major pushback from several church members. Someone even had the gall to repeat a lie to me about the school he chose to attend. Is there just one path for members of the LDS church to follow? Apparently so in some people's minds. But the church has religious institutes available to most/all college students across the country. My son has had extremely positive experiences with the church while attending this university, and i hope it continues. Actually it was his experience here locally that resulted in him not even wanting to consider BYU. We are better as people and as a church, when we can open our hearts and minds to all--and not just become a "cookie-cutter" church.

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:10 a.m.

    Far be it from me to judge what you do in your church meetings, but if this bothers you I would suggest taking a less passive approach to political comments you encounter in your Sunday schools and quorum meetings. If someone nudges open the door with a political comment, kick that door wide open. Challenge them on it. Let them know they are not speaking to a monolithic group.

    Non-conservative LDS Church members have plenty of ammunition on their side in this, from the LDS Church's election-time announcement that valid views are found in both political parties to the BYU professor's Deseret News editorial the other day, to various Christian scripture references. Ezra Taft Benson is the patron saint of far-right LDS conservatism, but for every loony quote of his, there are plenty of counter-examples within the LDS Church.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    @mike richards
    so how is talking about politics in keeping with the purpose of attending church which is generally to focus on the spiritual not worldly matters? I do not see where anyone is saying there should be a monitor to control others in church but perhaps you should think about how your desire to "socialize" (talk politics) interferes with your own and others ability to focus on the spiritual rather then wordily matters, Just asking a question and making a suggestion mike no force involved.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:53 a.m.

    Mike, I have lived in two wards in which the talk before and after church or in the high priests groups was nothing short of disgusting.

    In fact, when I tried to post a few things frequently heard in the ward to which I belong now, it was denied because the language was too offensive for this board. Some of it has come from those who are leaders. I've tried several times to call attention to it and have been lambasted by the ones who are vocal while others who do not speak up have come to me later to express sympathy.

    I was a convert to this church and am now very seriously wondering if I should continue to belong.

    I'm afraid there is a tendency in any organization to become too complacent and to let down our guard against what is truly offensive to God while somehow continuing to believe that we are "righteous."

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:51 a.m.

    Re:MikeRichards

    When one is in the minority, one does develop a thick skin--or leaves. What would your response be if someone quoted Clinton, Obama or Carter in a talk? What would your response be if someone in class stated they feel it is part of God's plan that the candidate they favored lost because it is the end times?

    Politics is a divisive issue and nothing changes the "atmosphere" quicker than a political discussion.
    Politics needs to be left outside church doors so everyone can enjoy the "spirit" inside.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:40 a.m.

    I suspect Mike R. might feel differently if he ever found himself on the minority side of some political issue while attending church. As it is, his last post attempts a switch on the "attacker" and the "attacked".

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah

    Don't tell me, let me guess...

    You are an older, white, male, Mormon, Republican, living in Utah.

    Yep --
    You'll never hear anyone say anything to ruffle your feather at Church.

    Tell me Mike --
    Why do you preach in Zion?
    Why do you sing to the choir?
    Becasue you feel safe here?

    Try Taking your arguments to "Babylon",
    post on the San Fransico Chronicle for awhile.

    Like - Jonah in Ninevah
    Alma and the Sons of Mosiah to the Lamanites.

    But -- I'd reckon it's becasue you are really just insecure and are looking for positive re-enforcement, rather than actully sticking your neck out and tyring to make your world a better place....

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:22 a.m.

    A problem is authoritarians and authoritarian followers, who blindly follow. Our local leaders believed anyone higher than them is inspired and is to be followed without question. According to them, blind obedience is the true course, synonymous with God commanding Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, forgetting that while God may be perfect, leaders are not.

    When we were living on the east coast, a ward member approached a member of the bishopric, concerned about the car in the parking lot with the John Kerry bumper sticker. Little did the person know, the bishopric member's father was Chairman of the local Democratic Party (but it was not his car).

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:05 a.m.

    When anyone thinks that they have the right to tell members of any church what to think about anything, they have crossed a line that should never be crossed. Talking politics over the pulpit is not allowed in any ward of the LDS Church that I have ever attended.

    However, church is also a social avenue for many. They go to church to talk to their friends. They enjoy being with other people for several hours each week. It appears that some posters want a "social monitor" to keep people from socializing at church. It appears that some are so thin-skinned that they take offense when a neighbor speaks about anything that is not on their "approved" list.

    Christ discussed politics. ("Render unto Caesar . . . ").

    As usual, many are using politics as a way to attack the LDS Church. If they believed in "loving their neighbor", would they constantly be on the attack?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:01 a.m.

    Amen and Amen!

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 8:49 a.m.

    In our ward, going to the leaders would do no good.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Jan. 18, 2013 8:45 a.m.

    Amen

    Local church leaders sometimes are guilty themselves of opening the door for politiical comments. In one instance political material was taught, by leaders, during Sunday services. When we complained and pointed out the false information contained in the material, we were ignored. My spouse resigned from his leadership position and has struggled to maintain activity. Complaints to higher-ups are just referred back to the local level.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 8:09 a.m.

    @Mike Richards
    The LDS church has stated that it believes politics should be left out of church. This fellow's ward doesn't like to do that. So yes it has to be handled by "local" members, but sometimes it takes outside members to put the fire out.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Jan. 18, 2013 7:22 a.m.

    Agreed. Our politics should not be a barrier for others who wish to worship God. If they are, we need to do some hard introspection as to what we are doing. If our political expressions chase others away from the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I believe we may have something to account for.

    If we believe that our political views best represent Gospel views, then no problem. If we are right, then with continued exposure to the Gospel (not our politics) others will come to see things more our way. If not, then maybe they were really just our own opinions.

    Either way, keeping our political opinions to ourselves when within the doors of the Church (and especially if acting in any official capacity) is what is expected of us and is the right thing to do.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 7:20 a.m.

    Church is tame compared to dealing with my ultra-conservative and outspoken family. My tongue hurts every time I am with my parents from biting it so much.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 18, 2013 6:59 a.m.

    Shouldn't this be a matter for the local church authorities to handle?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 18, 2013 6:53 a.m.

    Couldn't agree more. Church needs to be a refuge from man made conflict....church leaders at the ward, branch and stake need to ensure all are welcome, and work to reduce the devise comments from church services and meetings.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Jan. 18, 2013 5:46 a.m.

    Carol - I share your political persuaions and your experiences in my associations at church. Usually the comments made are seemingly in jest, but sometimes I feel there is an underlying intensity and seriousness to the jestful remarks. I have found that I can become comfortable with my political beliefs and how they relate to my religious beliefs. But I think the important thing is to accept how others of the opposing political beliefs can do the same. There is and should be a separation of our secular and religious beliefs, at least in when they are discussed, and certainly neither side of the poltical spectrum has a corner on rigtheous behavior. There are good, well intentioned people on both sides of politics and we should respect that reality.

    And when others stumble occasionally and make inappropriate remarks about the politicians you support we can all just turn the other cheek and feel confident that we are at peace with our beliefs. If I told you that was easy for me to do, or even possible to do on a regular basis, I'd be lying to you. But trying makes the whole situation more comfortable and more tolerable.