Published: Tuesday, Jan. 15 2013 11:55 p.m. MST
One real issue that I have seen is that there is a huge disparity between what a
procedure will cost WITH insurance vs WITHOUT insurance.I had a
minor outpatient surgery and the bill came to about $9,000 total of which the
insurance paid a good chunk.The same surgery without insurance would
have been billed at about $24,000.This was for total hospital time
of about 5 hours including about a 20 minute surgery.I understand
negotiating a good rate for your big customers (insurance companies) but this is
ridiculous. The hospital certainly made money at $9000. They would
obviously make a KILLING at $24,000.Something is just not right.
I'd love for someone to explain to me how the "best healthcare system
in the world" allows a working citizen to end up in a situation like this.
If you are rich, it is the best in the world. If not, you can window-shop and
I note with interest and amusement that none of our usual right wingers who
scream about the "evils" of the ACA have posted anything here this
morning.Could it be that they are actually reluctant to try to
answer this letter without appearing even more heartless and foolish than they
Single payer health care. For everyone.
Complete free-market health care. For everyone.
old man,we don't need to, Hutterite points out one of the evils of
Obamacare. It does NOT deliver what was promised. That does not mean I would
advocate a single payer system - that just drives care to the bottom. Too bad
dems were not interested in a bi-partisan effort.Obamacare does
NOTHING about the costs of health care, NOTHING. All it does is funnel even
more money into the pockets of insurance companies by forcing everyone to be
their customer. One could ask what this patient's credit card
bills have been since her first procedure and how that compares to what health
insurance premiums available through the state's existing exchange would
have been. Nowhere does the author say the premiums available through the
exchange were out of reach for her, he just leaves for us to assume they were.
For all we know, she chose not to purchase the available insurance prior to her
first diagnosis which would have kept her out of this dilemma. Did she lack
insurance because it was too expensive or because she CHOSE not to buy it?
lost -- try reading the letter more carefully.She couldn't
afford insurance. And even if she'd had it, the company would probably
have found a way to cancel it when cancer was diagnosed.
To "Emajor" tell us why the systems that cover everybody no matter what
do such a poor job of actually caring for people? Why do women in England have
to give birth in hospital bathrooms, elevators, and offices? Why are people in
Hong Kong limited to the number of visits to the Doctor? Why are Canadians more
likely to die waiting for cardiac surgery than the Americans to their south?Which is easier for you mind. To allow somebody to suffer because that
person does not have the money to pay for their care or to allow the same person
to suffer because the government does not have the money to pay for their care?
old man,OK, I've re-read it.now go back to my comment.
Which ended up being cheaper, the premiums she thought were too high, or her
credit card bills? We don't know.IF the insurance was too
high, it was a good economic choice for her to forgo the insurance and self-fund
her treatment, which she was able to do, though the use of credit cards is an
expensive way to fund something. It again says that Obamacare forcing everyone
to buy insurance is a bad thing, if self-funding care even through expensive
credit cards is cheaper.
@lost in DC: I could be mistaken, but I believe Utah's insurance exchange
isn't yet operational for those who are self-employed. That is in the
plans, especially if they want to keep the approval they've received from
Obama, but as it stands now, there's a very limited number of small
businesses who qualify to shop there. @RedShirt: I, too, have heard
horror stories from European healthcare systems (my great uncle even experienced
it, and travelled to the US for care, which a range of family members helped pay
for). That said, I've found Europeans always strongly defend their systems.
They would never dream of repealing them. The London Opening Ceremonies even
included a tribute to the National Health System. Generally speaking, the
primary problem with their systems is just plain, old, lack of doctors. I
wouldn't want their system created in the US. But I think it is unfortunate
that we're never allowed to discuss it. It makes far more sense to me to
consider their systems, and consider how to improve upon it and avoid the
pitfalls they have experienced, rather than continue with our current
@RedShirtMy wife gave birth to two of our kids in a nice hospital
room with 2 midwives attending. I think you will find out that there are times
of exceptional circumstances but I am sure that things like that never ever
happen in the US........@Suburbs of SLCHaving lived in
the States and experienced your healthcare system I would never want to
experience it again. The NHS has served my entire family very well and the rest
of 1st world certainly does not hold the US system as some sort of pinnacle to
achieve, its quite the opposite.You spend double the amount per person
than UHC countries for worst results. I struggle to understand how people can
defend the US system when they actually compare it to other countries systems.
People love to cherry pick examples like Redshirt above but look into all the
facts and figures, overall the US system is woefully inadequate.
To "UT Brit" the problem is that it is not exceptional circumstances.
The problems are becoming more common and are no longer the exception.Just look up in your own newspapers the horror stories about the NHS policies.
There are countless stories about people or groups of people who are being made
to suffer under the NHS.
@Redshirt1701I live here thanks and my family use the NHS a lot. Let
me guess exactly which paper is doing the complaining? I would bet $1,000,000
that its the Daily Mail (loves to bash the NHS, supported the Nazis, generally
terrible paper mocked by the majority of Britain), you can send me a cheque.I personally know people going through some horrors in the US system.
They either cannot get insurance or are under insured. When I see them talking
about buying medication meant for animals, doing their own dentistry or see the
horrific ER bills that will cripple them financially for years you bet I am glad
I have the NHS. These are people I speak with and not some sensationalized news
article. Of course the US has its fair share of newspaper horror stories
as well. Hospitals dumping dying people into the streets, people literally dying
in the ER waiting to be treated. 60% of bankruptcies caused by medical bills!The NHS is by no means perfect but your healthcare system is one of the
major reasons I left the States and moved back here.
To "UT Brit" it isn't the just the Daily Mail. Here are articles
from sources other than the Daily Mail."100,000 terminally ill
'do not get proper palliative care'" - UK Telegraph"British Socialized HC Official: Some Premature Babies Should be Left to
Die" - The Blaze"Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS
begins rationing operations" - The Independent"'Cruel
and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed" -
Telegraph"Girls, 13, given contraceptive implants at school"
Telegraph"Patients 'denied intensive care'" BBC
News"Lung cancer victims denied lifesaving scans"
Telegraph"Patients forced to live in agony after NHS refuses to
pay for painkilling injections" Telegraph"Two patients died
after waiting in ambulance outside 'full' Oldham hospital unit"
Manchester Evening NewsThere may be individual hospitals that dump
people, but these are articles showing many of your NHS policies that are
killing, injuring, or leaving people in pain.
@Redshirt1701I really cant be bothered to look them up but you will
find similar stories from the US and lots more of them. Type plural of anecdote
into google and click the second link. Stories on the left are people from UHC
countries, those on the right are US, keep on clicking. That pretty much trumps
any stories you can drag up.Look up the 45,000 people who die each
year from lack of healthcare. Look up the child mortality rates (and yes we
count what's classed as "live birth" the same). Look up the
healthcare costs per person (double in the US compared to UK). Look up your
total number of uninsured and underinsured (70+ million). Look what happens when
you have a "pre existing condition". Look at the insurance death panel
stories.Overall look at your healthcare ranking (#37 in the world).
If more Americans stopped looking at newspaper clippings from other countries
and actually did some research you might have a better healthcare system. There
would be riots in the UK if the government stopped the NHS. It would be a death
blow for any politician that suggested it such is its popularity.
To "UT Brit" I am not worried about what socialists think of the US
system. For the most part it is better than any other system in the world at
actually curing people and making them healthy again.If you want to
look at the uninsured, look at the number of people that CHOOSE to not be
insured. At one time 95% of the uninsured were that way by choice.Yes, look at what happens when you have a pre-existing condition. Most
insurance companies will look at your insurance history and will cover your
pre-existing condition within 1 year if you have not had insurance, and many
will cover your immediately if you have had insurance.You rely on
individual stories of bad hospitals to claim superiority for the NHS. If you
bothered to look at the stories I listed, most reflect the policies of the NHS.
In other words, your system has directives that injur, not individual hospitals
that are bad. Your system is killing, injuring, or leaving people in pain.
That cannot be said about the US system.
Haha yes completely ignore the statistics I posted. 45,000 dead each year from
preventable illnesses. You have 100,000 dead from hospital infections a year.
Sounds great.... I have personal experience that a lot of those
stories you posted are garbage and you will find that some of them are just
opinions of people instead of actual policy.People are not
clamouring for change in the UK, we dont have large chunks of the population
wanting to style themselves after the US system. We see its obvious flaws. Why
does no other first world country want a system like the US? Why do you have
such a low ranking in the health care statistics? Why is my friend denied health
insurance because of a heart trouble she had years ago? I thought she would be
covered after a year right? She is still waiting.......I very much
doubt you know what a socialist is. I do and I certainly dont fit into the
definition.Please actually do some research instead of depending on
blogs and tabloid newspapers for information. It might add some credibility to
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