@indy crimsonThe only thing you are correct about is that utah is a
bad team and program. BYU is a very good program and this year is a good team.
Not great team this year like some of the previous few, but a good team. You see
good teams win games, even when they don't play very well, like BYU against
utah. Even when BYU plays the worst game they have all season long they are
still good enough to beat a terrible team like utah.
indydude"If you saw ANY of the USF game you are decorating your
grocery sack to wear to the next game...embarrassing performance as a
team..."It's not uncommon for a superior team to play down
to the level of their competition. Now you know how Arizona and BYU feel about
their performances against Utah. The upside is, good teams find ways of winning
even when they're not playing their best.Hence, USF can shoot
lights out from 3-pt land in their own gym; Davies can spend most of the game
riding the pine in foul trouble, Haws (a 95% FT shooter) can be missing free
throws, and BYU still finds a way to make up a double digit deficit on the road
to pull out a win.
indycrimsonThe WCC may not be as good as the PAC 12 top to bottom,
but the upper half of the WCC is every bit as good as the upper half of the PAC
12.And let's not forget, the WCC placed THREE teams in the NCAA
tournament last season; the PAC 12 only TWO. In fact, the regular season PAC 12
champion last season, wasn't good enough to get into the Big Dance.One thing is certain, the Utes would be bottom dwellers in the WCC, just
like they are in the PAC 12.btw, size of gym has absolutely NOTHING
to do with quality of team that plays in the gym.Cameron Indoor
Stadium only seats 9,314, 6,000 LESS than the Huntsman Center and 12,000 less
than the Marriott Center.
Lone starI wasn't comparing Utah to BYU. I was saying BYU plays in a
mini conference and will win tons of games and not be any good. You'll
beat almost all WCC teams and still not be any good.Separate
note...don't run Utah down cuz I am...we're not very good
either...mutually exclusive...we don't have to be together or opposite. If
you saw ANY of the USF game you are decorating your grocery sack to wear to the
next game...embarrassing performance as a team...in a really lousy conference.
indycrimson"Your team isn't good...neither is mine!"LOL! Don't try to equate your sorry excuse for a
basketball program with BYU.The Utes LOST two HOME GAMES to Sac St
and CS Northridge and counted an NAIA team among your wins this season.
You've lost 11 of the last 12 games versus BYU.During the Dave
Rose era, BYU - 197-58(77%) overall, 92-22(81%) conference, SIX 25+
win seasons, SIX NCAA tournament appearances, 4-6 in the tournamentUtah - 109-125(47%) overall, 47-69(41%) conference, ONE 25+ win season, ONE
NCAA tournament appearance, 0-1 in the tournamentDave Rose has never
had less than a 20+ win season during his 8 years as BYU's head coach.Utah has only had two winning seasons during the last 8 years.Utah's modest "improvement" this season would be considered a
disaster for a Dave Rose coached BYU team.btw, BYU is
averaging 16,000+ per home game this season Utah is averaging 7,373Call us when you exceed 16,000 for a single game, let alone, for an
entire home season.
Blue cougar...You guys could go undefeated if you joined a really bad
league...like the Big Sky or Ivy League.If wins are all that matters
to you, go become the NCAA globe trotters and play the Orem Popsicles every
night and win all your games. Content or quality of play or competition seems
to mean nothing to you.Most big boy gyms have tunnels that both
teams use to enter and exit the court. Most junior high gyms don't, be
that they were built for war or peace.Your team isn't
good...neither is mine!
JohnInSLCIt's laughable that Utah fans are now whining about
BYU fans doing exactly the same thing that Utah fans were doing during football
season - the difference, of course, is BYU fans never pretended that they
weren't claiming a moral victory for losing to the #3 team in the country
on the road, or losing 4 of 5 games by a total of 13 points.Was
10-loss Colorado better than Utah(8-5) last year? Was 10-loss UNLV better than
Utah(9-4) in 2007? Someday Utah fans will leave their crimson-colored bubble
long enough to realize that one game does not a season make.
It's hilarious that BYU fans are chiding Ute fans (claiming they are
providing "perspective") for being encouraged by their basketball teams
competitiveness on the road last week. Here is more perspective.
These same "fans" are the first to tell us how much better their
football team was than Utah's--never mind that loss 24-21 loss which made
it 3 in a row and 8 of 11--by parroting the same two Talking Points they read in
their favorite paper: "1) We were close to playing for a national
championship (see narrow loss to Notre Dame); 2) We were 14 points from
12-1." If y fans didn't invent the the selective spin on
moral victories, they sure perfected it.
"@Duckhunter be nice, we don't have to stoop..."Too
late, Roger, Ducky's a chiropractor's dream patient.
SoonerUte"So Cougar fans have already given up on this year and
are looking forward to 2013."Hardly.BYU fans are
simply realistic enough to acknowledge that the current BYU team hasn't
been quite as strong during the preseason as recent BYU teams. Most BYU fans
still believe that the Cougars will have another 20+ win season and still have a
decent chance of getting into the NCAA tournament.
indycrimson"I know what I was more proud of and happier to
watch."For a program that's been a train wreck for most of
the last decade, it's understandable why you'd be trying to claim that
you're more proud of a close loss than BYU fans could possibly be of a
close win.Sorry to disappoint U, but BYU fans are just as encouraged
by BYU's comeback win on the road against a team that was shooting lights
out in the first half, with Davies fouling out and Haws missing free throws,
because it showed BYU fans that the Cougars were capable of winning close games
even when BYU's top two players were having an off night.If
trying to minimize BYU's win helps you sleep at night, fine, but bottom
line, BYU is 12-4 and moving closer to another NCAA berth, while Utah is 8-6 and
moving closer to watching another Big Dance from the sidelines.btw,
despite your desperate and emotional claims to the contrary, your ratty high
school gym was NOTHING like War Memorial Gym in San Francisco.
Trailing the USF Don's all game and coming from behind when their
5'6" teachers quorum president got so tired he could cut through the
Y's core any longer...in front of a half sold out 4800 arena/gym or
whatever that place was considered...Or a three point game against
the #3 team in the nation while 20,000 watched?I know what I was
more proud of and happier to watch.My first basketball game, playing
for my 8th grade school was against the Grantsville Cowboys. We played in a gym
like that. And when the game ended, we exited from the same exit that the fans
did. Right into a hallway that lead to classrooms and such. I noticed the
Cougs had the same experience the other night. Kinda ugly...
motortrikeThanks for your interest in BYU stories that have been
temporarily passed over for these 'great' stories of the
strugglin' Utes. Deep down we care and we're pullin' for your
team. I know I care.But before your whining ends it's a known
fact that Ute fans comment on more BYU stories than their own and Ducky and I
just can't keep up with it.I will try harder.@
SoonerUteWhat slight decline?BYU 2-0 in conference as
opposed to 0-2 for the 'strugglin' Utes'. Thank
goodness for close contests and fans that can't make up their mind if
they're happy or sad.
Several of you Ute fans have been just gushing about the improvements and just
lamenting at the same time about these narrow losses. Such a tragedy to come so
far and so close and then have your dream stomped on.It's funny
that 'moral victories' are only valid for Utes and their fans. But as
I've said before, each Ute 'moral victory' serves to validate
every BYU moral victory.Ain't it nice that fans can come
together?But their still losses. BwaaaaaaaaahLove the
hypocrisy, just love it.
@sooneruteI'm not bothered by it at all. I've told you
guys many, many times what motivates me here. I'll do it again. naval vet,
chris b, howard s, utah/hawaii alum, 54-10, kosta fesenko, and plenty of
others.You see this goes both ways but the difference is only the
utah "fans" complain about it.I have a theory about it
though. Right now utah's athletic teams are struggling, none of them are
doing particularly well. BYU's on the otherhand are all pretty successful.
Because of this utah fans are particularly touchy about things. They
road high for a couple of years with the pac 12 invite but the lack of pac 12
success has worn on them. It has given them little ammo to fight back against
the BYU fans with meanwhile BYU fans are piling on just like utah fans had done
for the previous couple of years.The difference appears to me to be
that a mjaority of utah fans fall into the "can dish it but can't take
it" categorie. That of course has made it all the more fun for BYU fans like
"A slight decline this year is being more than offset by the Cougars signing
one the best recruiting classes in BYU history in 2013."Wow. So
Cougar fans have already given up on this year and are looking forward to 2013.
No wonder Cougar fans are looking to squash Ute fan excitement.
Definition of a moral victory:"An actual defeat regarded as a
virtual victory because of the narrowness of the margin or because of some
circumstance that gives satisfaction or hope."Krystkowiak
said:"At the end of the day we were in two close ballgames,
obviously, against teams that were 25-2 (combined) up to that point in the
season and we were a possession away in each game."hmmmm...
phoenix, fans talking about holding teams well under their field goal percentage
and points per game is not creating moral victories, it's applauding good
defensive play. Likewise, how many times have we heard byu fans talk about the
defensive stats their football team had in losses to Boise and Notre Dame? Are
those moral victories, or is that being happy about the team's defense?
SoonerUte"Why does it bother BYU fans so much that Utah fans are
getting excited about the Utes again?"BYU fans are just
providing a little reality check to our friends on the hill that improving from
pathetic to mediocre is nothing to get too excited about."Is it
because BYU fans are frustrated at their own team's downward trend while
the Utes are on the rise?"Hardly. A slight decline this year is
being more than offset by the Cougars signing one the best recruiting classes in
BYU history in 2013.
@ Josey WellsBingo!FYI, your screen name is the best
@ UteanymousYou said: "...somebody needs to add balance to the
discussion." And thankfully we have insecure BYU fans such as
yourself to provide us with that balance. Thank you so very much.___________You said: "What's really telling is Utah fans
being so easily offended by any opposition to the crimson-colored
narative."That's interesting, I don't remember feeling
offended. I certainly did find humor and irony in you and the other coug fan
comments. It's funny how obsessed you all are with a team that you all
claim to be so leaps and bounds better than. It quite simply screams insecurity
to anyone with an unbiased eye.Anyway, thanks again for providing us
with some balance. What would we do without you and Ducky?
PhoenixNice job of putting words in coach K's mouth; par for
the course. How in the world do you get the coach saying it was a "moral
victory" from his comment? He certainly sounds optimistic though. Why in the
world wouldn't he? SoonerUteI don't get it
either? Why shouldn't Utah coaches and fans be excited and optimistic after
playing two very good teams (one ranked), on the road, down to the wire? I have
never, ever experienced a more negative fan base. They don't even comment
on there own basketball program, simply take jabs and shots at there rival. Oh
well, I like the direction the basketball program is headed; especially after
last season. Rock On and Take Care SoonerUte!
"He didn't use the words "moral victory", but that's
exactly what Krystkowiak was claiming."Your argument is "he
didn't say it, but he meant it"?Weak.Why does it
bother BYU fans so much that Utah fans are getting excited about the Utes again?
Is it because BYU fans are frustrated at their own team's downward trend
while the Utes are on the rise? Maybe some easy WCC wins will perk up the
No beating my chest here. However, the direction the program is headed is up,
which is good. Maybe the wins aren't there yet, but whether you call it a
moral victory or not, to be more competitive with ranked schools and within the
conference, is a good thing.
Spokane Ute"As I re-read the article, where in the world do you
arrive at the coach, or any Utah fan, saying the loses were "moral
victories"?"Quoting directly from the article:"At the end of the day we were in two close ballgames, obviously, against
teams that were 25-2 (combined) up to that point in the season and we were a
possession away in each game," Krystkowiak said at his weekly press
conference on Monday."He didn't use the words "moral
victory", but that's exactly what Krystkowiak was claiming.Utah fans have been even more direct claiming the Utes only lost by a point or
two or three and praising the Utes for holding opponents to well below their
scoring averages.If that's not claiming a moral victory, which
directly contradicts the headline, then how do you define a moral victory?
@skywalker,I really don't know what other Utah fans have said
about moral victories, but I haven't said that. The headline of the article
refers to coack K's stand. As I re-read the article, where in the world do
you arrive at the coach, or any Utah fan, saying the loses were "moral
victories"? Which Utah fan are you referring too? A win is a win; and a loss
is a loss. It is great to see Utah playing these programs down to the wire
though. Moral victory? I don't know. Optimism? Heck Yea! As far as my other
comment, it's the same old rant, by the same Utah Haters. They seem to
troll Utah threads, take shots at the program, and look for an arguement.
That's the way I see it; I hope I answered your question.
Spokane UteAnswer the questions honestly:Haven't
Utah fans been praising Utah for moral victories since the BYU game?So why do consider questioning the validity of an obviously false headline
"picking a fight" and "weird and insecure"?
@UtenymousNo worries, your Cougars are actually playing decent ball
this year. Why do you always try to pick an arguement and take shot at a fan
base you pretend to represent? Pretty weird and very insecure.
motorbikeNo need to comment on a given: BYU adds substantial value
to the WCC.On the other hand, Utah fans have been beating their
chests about moral victories all season long, and since Utah fans are too biased
to challenge the theory postulated in the headline, somebody needs to add
balance to the discussion.What's really telling is Utah fans
being so easily offended by any opposition to the crimson-colored narative.
Funny how three of the first four comments on a Utah article added to the site 2
hours ago are from Cougar fans, yet the BYU article posted 4 hours ago has zero
comments.Telling ... very telling.
It's nice to see Utah playing competitive, but a loss by 20 points, or 1
point amounts to the same....a L. Hopefully the Utes will learn to finish, and
do well in conference play. I like the direction the program is heading. Also not sure how calling some one "motormouth" is considered
civil dailogue or a thoughtful comment? For me, I just consider the source.
@Duckhunter be nice, we don't have to stoop...
"Utes aren't hanging their hats (or heads) on moral victories"So says the headline, even though that's exactly what coach k is
doing by talking about how close the Utes came to winning a game in Arizona.
Well the utah team may not be "hanging their hats (or heads) on moral
victories" but their "fans", like motormouth, certainly are. LOL!
I'm excited for the games this week. If the team, and particularly
Washburn, continue to play like they did last week we'll see one win and
likely two this week.That's not a prediction as much as my hope that
Wash keeps it up and the team keeps playing with the same intensity they have
been, and for every possession of the game. Good things will happen if they
do.I love the direction of the program. I hope fans will get themselves to
the stadium this week, these are going to fun games to be at from here on out.