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Utah notebook: Utes aren't hanging their hats (or heads) on moral victories

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  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 10, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    @indy crimson

    The only thing you are correct about is that utah is a bad team and program. BYU is a very good program and this year is a good team. Not great team this year like some of the previous few, but a good team. You see good teams win games, even when they don't play very well, like BYU against utah. Even when BYU plays the worst game they have all season long they are still good enough to beat a terrible team like utah.

  • TheSportsAuthority Arlington, VA
    Jan. 10, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    indydude

    "If you saw ANY of the USF game you are decorating your grocery sack to wear to the next game...embarrassing performance as a team..."

    It's not uncommon for a superior team to play down to the level of their competition. Now you know how Arizona and BYU feel about their performances against Utah. The upside is, good teams find ways of winning even when they're not playing their best.

    Hence, USF can shoot lights out from 3-pt land in their own gym; Davies can spend most of the game riding the pine in foul trouble, Haws (a 95% FT shooter) can be missing free throws, and BYU still finds a way to make up a double digit deficit on the road to pull out a win.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 10, 2013 9:25 a.m.

    indycrimson

    The WCC may not be as good as the PAC 12 top to bottom, but the upper half of the WCC is every bit as good as the upper half of the PAC 12.

    And let's not forget, the WCC placed THREE teams in the NCAA tournament last season; the PAC 12 only TWO. In fact, the regular season PAC 12 champion last season, wasn't good enough to get into the Big Dance.

    One thing is certain, the Utes would be bottom dwellers in the WCC, just like they are in the PAC 12.

    btw, size of gym has absolutely NOTHING to do with quality of team that plays in the gym.

    Cameron Indoor Stadium only seats 9,314, 6,000 LESS than the Huntsman Center and 12,000 less than the Marriott Center.

  • indycrimson Franklin, IN
    Jan. 10, 2013 3:42 a.m.

    Lone star
    I wasn't comparing Utah to BYU. I was saying BYU plays in a mini conference and will win tons of games and not be any good. You'll beat almost all WCC teams and still not be any good.

    Separate note...don't run Utah down cuz I am...we're not very good either...mutually exclusive...we don't have to be together or opposite. If you saw ANY of the USF game you are decorating your grocery sack to wear to the next game...embarrassing performance as a team...in a really lousy conference.

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 11:55 p.m.

    indycrimson

    "Your team isn't good...neither is mine!"

    LOL!

    Don't try to equate your sorry excuse for a basketball program with BYU.

    The Utes LOST two HOME GAMES to Sac St and CS Northridge and counted an NAIA team among your wins this season. You've lost 11 of the last 12 games versus BYU.

    During the Dave Rose era,

    BYU - 197-58(77%) overall, 92-22(81%) conference, SIX 25+ win seasons, SIX NCAA tournament appearances, 4-6 in the tournament

    Utah - 109-125(47%) overall, 47-69(41%) conference, ONE 25+ win season, ONE NCAA tournament appearance, 0-1 in the tournament

    Dave Rose has never had less than a 20+ win season during his 8 years as BYU's head coach.

    Utah has only had two winning seasons during the last 8 years.

    Utah's modest "improvement" this season would be considered a disaster for a Dave Rose coached BYU team.

    btw,
    BYU is averaging 16,000+ per home game this season
    Utah is averaging 7,373

    Call us when you exceed 16,000 for a single game, let alone, for an entire home season.

  • indycrimson Franklin, IN
    Jan. 9, 2013 8:51 p.m.

    Blue cougar...
    You guys could go undefeated if you joined a really bad league...like the Big Sky or Ivy League.

    If wins are all that matters to you, go become the NCAA globe trotters and play the Orem Popsicles every night and win all your games. Content or quality of play or competition seems to mean nothing to you.

    Most big boy gyms have tunnels that both teams use to enter and exit the court. Most junior high gyms don't, be that they were built for war or peace.

    Your team isn't good...neither is mine!

  • LOTR Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 9, 2013 5:14 p.m.

    JohnInSLC

    It's laughable that Utah fans are now whining about BYU fans doing exactly the same thing that Utah fans were doing during football season - the difference, of course, is BYU fans never pretended that they weren't claiming a moral victory for losing to the #3 team in the country on the road, or losing 4 of 5 games by a total of 13 points.

    Was 10-loss Colorado better than Utah(8-5) last year? Was 10-loss UNLV better than Utah(9-4) in 2007? Someday Utah fans will leave their crimson-colored bubble long enough to realize that one game does not a season make.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 4:30 p.m.

    It's hilarious that BYU fans are chiding Ute fans (claiming they are providing "perspective") for being encouraged by their basketball teams competitiveness on the road last week.

    Here is more perspective. These same "fans" are the first to tell us how much better their football team was than Utah's--never mind that loss 24-21 loss which made it 3 in a row and 8 of 11--by parroting the same two Talking Points they read in their favorite paper:
    "1) We were close to playing for a national championship (see narrow loss to Notre Dame);
    2) We were 14 points from 12-1."

    If y fans didn't invent the the selective spin on moral victories, they sure perfected it.

  • JohnInSLC Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 4:01 p.m.

    "@Duckhunter be nice, we don't have to stoop..."

    Too late, Roger, Ducky's a chiropractor's dream patient.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 9, 2013 8:46 a.m.

    SoonerUte

    "So Cougar fans have already given up on this year and are looking forward to 2013."

    Hardly.

    BYU fans are simply realistic enough to acknowledge that the current BYU team hasn't been quite as strong during the preseason as recent BYU teams. Most BYU fans still believe that the Cougars will have another 20+ win season and still have a decent chance of getting into the NCAA tournament.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    Jan. 9, 2013 8:07 a.m.

    indycrimson

    "I know what I was more proud of and happier to watch."

    For a program that's been a train wreck for most of the last decade, it's understandable why you'd be trying to claim that you're more proud of a close loss than BYU fans could possibly be of a close win.

    Sorry to disappoint U, but BYU fans are just as encouraged by BYU's comeback win on the road against a team that was shooting lights out in the first half, with Davies fouling out and Haws missing free throws, because it showed BYU fans that the Cougars were capable of winning close games even when BYU's top two players were having an off night.

    If trying to minimize BYU's win helps you sleep at night, fine, but bottom line, BYU is 12-4 and moving closer to another NCAA berth, while Utah is 8-6 and moving closer to watching another Big Dance from the sidelines.

    btw, despite your desperate and emotional claims to the contrary, your ratty high school gym was NOTHING like War Memorial Gym in San Francisco.

  • indycrimson Franklin, IN
    Jan. 9, 2013 2:58 a.m.

    Trailing the USF Don's all game and coming from behind when their 5'6" teachers quorum president got so tired he could cut through the Y's core any longer...in front of a half sold out 4800 arena/gym or whatever that place was considered...

    Or a three point game against the #3 team in the nation while 20,000 watched?

    I know what I was more proud of and happier to watch.

    My first basketball game, playing for my 8th grade school was against the Grantsville Cowboys. We played in a gym like that. And when the game ended, we exited from the same exit that the fans did. Right into a hallway that lead to classrooms and such. I noticed the Cougs had the same experience the other night. Kinda ugly...

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 9:28 p.m.

    motortrike

    Thanks for your interest in BYU stories that have been temporarily passed over for these 'great' stories of the strugglin' Utes. Deep down we care and we're pullin' for your team. I know I care.

    But before your whining ends it's a known fact that Ute fans comment on more BYU stories than their own and Ducky and I just can't keep up with it.

    I will try harder.

    @ SoonerUte

    What slight decline?

    BYU 2-0 in conference as opposed to 0-2 for the 'strugglin' Utes'.

    Thank goodness for close contests and fans that can't make up their mind if they're happy or sad.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 8:54 p.m.

    Several of you Ute fans have been just gushing about the improvements and just lamenting at the same time about these narrow losses. Such a tragedy to come so far and so close and then have your dream stomped on.

    It's funny that 'moral victories' are only valid for Utes and their fans. But as I've said before, each Ute 'moral victory' serves to validate every BYU moral victory.

    Ain't it nice that fans can come together?

    But their still losses. Bwaaaaaaaaah

    Love the hypocrisy, just love it.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:58 p.m.

    @soonerute

    I'm not bothered by it at all. I've told you guys many, many times what motivates me here. I'll do it again. naval vet, chris b, howard s, utah/hawaii alum, 54-10, kosta fesenko, and plenty of others.

    You see this goes both ways but the difference is only the utah "fans" complain about it.

    I have a theory about it though. Right now utah's athletic teams are struggling, none of them are doing particularly well. BYU's on the otherhand are all pretty successful.

    Because of this utah fans are particularly touchy about things. They road high for a couple of years with the pac 12 invite but the lack of pac 12 success has worn on them. It has given them little ammo to fight back against the BYU fans with meanwhile BYU fans are piling on just like utah fans had done for the previous couple of years.

    The difference appears to me to be that a mjaority of utah fans fall into the "can dish it but can't take it" categorie. That of course has made it all the more fun for BYU fans like myself.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 6:28 p.m.

    "A slight decline this year is being more than offset by the Cougars signing one the best recruiting classes in BYU history in 2013."

    Wow. So Cougar fans have already given up on this year and are looking forward to 2013. No wonder Cougar fans are looking to squash Ute fan excitement.

  • scenic view Baltimore, MD
    Jan. 8, 2013 5:52 p.m.

    Definition of a moral victory:

    "An actual defeat regarded as a virtual victory because of the narrowness of the margin or because of some circumstance that gives satisfaction or hope."

    Krystkowiak said:

    "At the end of the day we were in two close ballgames, obviously, against teams that were 25-2 (combined) up to that point in the season and we were a possession away in each game."

    hmmmm...

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 5:04 p.m.

    phoenix, fans talking about holding teams well under their field goal percentage and points per game is not creating moral victories, it's applauding good defensive play. Likewise, how many times have we heard byu fans talk about the defensive stats their football team had in losses to Boise and Notre Dame? Are those moral victories, or is that being happy about the team's defense?

  • LonestarRunner Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 4:47 p.m.

    SoonerUte

    "Why does it bother BYU fans so much that Utah fans are getting excited about the Utes again?"

    BYU fans are just providing a little reality check to our friends on the hill that improving from pathetic to mediocre is nothing to get too excited about.

    "Is it because BYU fans are frustrated at their own team's downward trend while the Utes are on the rise?"

    Hardly. A slight decline this year is being more than offset by the Cougars signing one the best recruiting classes in BYU history in 2013.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 8, 2013 4:37 p.m.

    @ Josey Wells

    Bingo!

    FYI, your screen name is the best western ever!

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 4:37 p.m.

    @ Uteanymous

    You said: "...somebody needs to add balance to the discussion."

    And thankfully we have insecure BYU fans such as yourself to provide us with that balance. Thank you so very much.
    ___________

    You said: "What's really telling is Utah fans being so easily offended by any opposition to the crimson-colored narative."

    That's interesting, I don't remember feeling offended. I certainly did find humor and irony in you and the other coug fan comments. It's funny how obsessed you all are with a team that you all claim to be so leaps and bounds better than. It quite simply screams insecurity to anyone with an unbiased eye.

    Anyway, thanks again for providing us with some balance. What would we do without you and Ducky?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 8, 2013 4:36 p.m.

    Phoenix

    Nice job of putting words in coach K's mouth; par for the course. How in the world do you get the coach saying it was a "moral victory" from his comment? He certainly sounds optimistic though. Why in the world wouldn't he?

    SoonerUte

    I don't get it either? Why shouldn't Utah coaches and fans be excited and optimistic after playing two very good teams (one ranked), on the road, down to the wire? I have never, ever experienced a more negative fan base. They don't even comment on there own basketball program, simply take jabs and shots at there rival. Oh well, I like the direction the basketball program is headed; especially after last season. Rock On and Take Care SoonerUte!

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 3:59 p.m.

    "He didn't use the words "moral victory", but that's exactly what Krystkowiak was claiming."
    Your argument is "he didn't say it, but he meant it"?
    Weak.

    Why does it bother BYU fans so much that Utah fans are getting excited about the Utes again? Is it because BYU fans are frustrated at their own team's downward trend while the Utes are on the rise? Maybe some easy WCC wins will perk up the fanbase.

  • joseywales Park City, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 3:57 p.m.

    No beating my chest here. However, the direction the program is headed is up, which is good. Maybe the wins aren't there yet, but whether you call it a moral victory or not, to be more competitive with ranked schools and within the conference, is a good thing.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    Jan. 8, 2013 3:32 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    "As I re-read the article, where in the world do you arrive at the coach, or any Utah fan, saying the loses were "moral victories"?"

    Quoting directly from the article:

    "At the end of the day we were in two close ballgames, obviously, against teams that were 25-2 (combined) up to that point in the season and we were a possession away in each game," Krystkowiak said at his weekly press conference on Monday."

    He didn't use the words "moral victory", but that's exactly what Krystkowiak was claiming.

    Utah fans have been even more direct claiming the Utes only lost by a point or two or three and praising the Utes for holding opponents to well below their scoring averages.

    If that's not claiming a moral victory, which directly contradicts the headline, then how do you define a moral victory?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 8, 2013 3:19 p.m.

    @skywalker,

    I really don't know what other Utah fans have said about moral victories, but I haven't said that. The headline of the article refers to coack K's stand. As I re-read the article, where in the world do you arrive at the coach, or any Utah fan, saying the loses were "moral victories"? Which Utah fan are you referring too? A win is a win; and a loss is a loss. It is great to see Utah playing these programs down to the wire though. Moral victory? I don't know. Optimism? Heck Yea! As far as my other comment, it's the same old rant, by the same Utah Haters. They seem to troll Utah threads, take shots at the program, and look for an arguement. That's the way I see it; I hope I answered your question.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Jan. 8, 2013 2:31 p.m.

    Spokane Ute

    Answer the questions honestly:

    Haven't Utah fans been praising Utah for moral victories since the BYU game?

    So why do consider questioning the validity of an obviously false headline "picking a fight" and "weird and insecure"?

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 8, 2013 1:55 p.m.

    @Utenymous

    No worries, your Cougars are actually playing decent ball this year. Why do you always try to pick an arguement and take shot at a fan base you pretend to represent? Pretty weird and very insecure.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 8, 2013 1:06 p.m.

    motorbike

    No need to comment on a given: BYU adds substantial value to the WCC.

    On the other hand, Utah fans have been beating their chests about moral victories all season long, and since Utah fans are too biased to challenge the theory postulated in the headline, somebody needs to add balance to the discussion.

    What's really telling is Utah fans being so easily offended by any opposition to the crimson-colored narative.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 12:21 p.m.

    Funny how three of the first four comments on a Utah article added to the site 2 hours ago are from Cougar fans, yet the BYU article posted 4 hours ago has zero comments.
    Telling ... very telling.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Jan. 8, 2013 12:14 p.m.

    It's nice to see Utah playing competitive, but a loss by 20 points, or 1 point amounts to the same....a L. Hopefully the Utes will learn to finish, and do well in conference play. I like the direction the program is heading.

    Also not sure how calling some one "motormouth" is considered civil dailogue or a thoughtful comment? For me, I just consider the source.

  • rogerdpack Orem, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 11:58 a.m.

    @Duckhunter be nice, we don't have to stoop...

  • phantomblade Salt Lake City, Utah
    Jan. 8, 2013 11:03 a.m.

    "Utes aren't hanging their hats (or heads) on moral victories"

    So says the headline, even though that's exactly what coach k is doing by talking about how close the Utes came to winning a game in Arizona.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 10:59 a.m.

    Well the utah team may not be "hanging their hats (or heads) on moral victories" but their "fans", like motormouth, certainly are. LOL!

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 8, 2013 10:20 a.m.

    I'm excited for the games this week. If the team, and particularly Washburn, continue to play like they did last week we'll see one win and likely two this week.
    That's not a prediction as much as my hope that Wash keeps it up and the team keeps playing with the same intensity they have been, and for every possession of the game. Good things will happen if they do.
    I love the direction of the program. I hope fans will get themselves to the stadium this week, these are going to fun games to be at from here on out.