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Published: Saturday, Jan. 5 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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one old man
Ogden, UT

Okay, let's try again to please the DN censors.

This letter can equally apply to the reactions of conservatives when something controversial doesn't go the way they want it to go. Rush and Glenn and others who use hate radio to stir the masses begin bleating loudly and various conservative publications editorialize endlessly.

Perhaps the real problem is that Americans on all sides act like spoiled children rather than thinking adults.

Could that be the reason why Congress cannot accomplish anything?

Screwdriver
Casa Grande, AZ

I know you won't get it but it's a 180 degree difference to give rights to people rather than take them away.

So you will find a lot of opposition to keep gays from having rights and liberals will have a lot of trouble trying to restrict conservatives guns. See, it's not all that different is it?

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

God gives people rights, not the government! At least that is what our founding fathers believed and wrote a constitution that limits the power of the government. Liberals think the government is God and thou shalt have no other Gods before the government! King George really knew what was best for those naughty patriots didn't he liberals?

EDM
Castle Valley, Utah

T.G. Mahas,

Yes, we liberals will continue to fight for social justice because that is what we do.

Your comment about "protecting traditional marriage" is simply disingenuous. Denying marriage rights to some does nothing to "protect" those rights for others. Traditional marriage will be just as it is, if not stronger, by including everyone who wants and deserves it.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Funny thing is that the naughty patriots were indeed LIBERALS. In those days, the conservatives were called Tories.

Sometimes history is downright inconvenient, isn't it?

Emajor
Ogden, UT

Mountanman,
I see you found little in the original letter to actually comment about and just used this as an opportunity to make baseless attacks.

Government is God? Well, on criteria that weak I could make the claim that conservatives believe Money and Guns are their Gods.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

And the tea party, with their guns on hip protesting the Affordable Health Care Act were what?

You know mountainman this whole god gives rights not government would be funny if it weren't so sad. Where was Rosa Parks god given right to sit at the front of the bus? Where was my grandmothers god given right to vote when she turned 21? And by the way try getting a business license from god.

Liberals don't worship government. Government just is what it is..a secular organization to manage the secular affairs of our society..that's it..nothing more. Your rants about liberals intentions and purposes are ridiculous.

Emajor
Ogden, UT

"When liberals win an election, they like to say it's the voice of the people."

Yeah, so do conservatives. The 2004 presidential and 2010 congressional elections come to mind. What's your point, Mr. Mahas?

"But when they lose, it's often declared unconstitutional, illegal or racist"

As opposed to conservatives, who first blamed the media, then blamed "free stuff" promised to the poor & minorities, then blamed the American citizenry, then blamed Romney himself for the 2012 presidential election loss?

"When conservatives try to protect traditional marriage"

Banning rights from gays does not protect traditional marriage. Only heterosexual couples who work to keep traditional marriages from failing at a rate of 50% can do that. Your marriage is not threatened by gays.

"I cry for future generations"

When I think of the advances we have made in tolerance and secularism, I certainly don't. If you want to cry for future generations, do so because of the resource challenges that are likely to accompany a world with 20 billion people living on it.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

One old man: Conservatives have always believed in limited government, always have, always will and you trying to spin history doesn't change anything!

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

When conservatives win an election, they like to say they're the most American, the Patriotic, the most American. They say they will fight and defend the Constitution.
They say States laws supercede Federal law.

But when they lose, they call it a fraud and a sham. It's always declared unconstitutional, illegal or Chicago-style politics. They petition the Government to secede from the United States of America. They suddenly say States like Washington and Colorado CAN'T make their own laws. They want Peace and Start Wars. They want lower taxes and less spending - yet they spend more, and make ZERO effort to fund it -- creating Nation debt. They say they want Government out of their lives, but they tell people who they can marry, how women can take care of themselves, and make laws based on racism.

Ya- there's a Double standard alrighty....but Liberals are hardly the example of it.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

These labels being tossed out just don't fit. I'm a conservative who voted democrat.

Mick
Murray, Utah

One old man-

Not sure how you come to the conclusion that the tories were conservatives. They wanted the big bloated government and a king to provide and protect them. Sounds to me like the liberal of today.

The revolutionary patriots wanted government out of the way, there to protect their rights, not grant them.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Spin? Or tell the truth? Can anyone explain exactly why pointing out that the patriots of the revolution were liberals and Tories were conservatives is "spinning?"

Does truth make conservatives dizzy? Apparently so.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Other popular double standards people use include those for rich versus poor, men versus women, black versus white, business versus workers, big versus little, adults, versus children,
God-religious versus Non-God-religious and a million others.

The clear winner at the top of the list seems to always be rich versus poor.

Thank heaven we don’t have to account for all our double standards.

Shaun
Sandy, UT

@mountainman. Conservatives do not believe in limited government. If they did they would of not kicked Ron Paul to the curb. Conservatives believe corporations should have the power of the people. Conservatives believe they should legislate morals instead of letting people choose for themselves. Conservatives believe we should occupy the world in the name of self defense.

one old man
Ogden, UT

But, Ultra Bob, do you think things might just be a whole lot better if we DID have to account for them?

And now, before anyone tries to nail me for that comment, let me confess that I struggle very hard to avoid them. Trouble is, I don't always succeed.

But anyone who claims to have no double standards is simply not being truthful.

Y'know, it really is tough being a human sometimes.

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

T.G.
You are accurate in your description of liberals.

But one could also say you are very inaccurate – in order to have a double of anything, you need to have the initial one of that thing, and one could easily argue liberals have no standards, whatever suits them at the time is OK.

One could also easily argue that liberals do have one very solid standard – “everything associated with conservatives is bad” seems to be their most solid standard.

Screwdriver,
Gays have no fewer rights than anyone else. The basis for your argument erroneous.

Pragmatist,
“guns” on hip protesting Obamacare? Really? More hyperbole that old man likes to decry, but this time it reflects DNC hate speech.

Hutterite,
If you truly are the former, you could not have done the latter.

Joyce Wilson
Ogden, UT

Mountanman - I love breaking it to you but no republican/conservative president, no republican/conservative majority in Congress has ever reduced the size of government or reduced its intrusive power. Not Nixon. Not Reagan. Not a Bush. Not the 'Contract On America' crowd. Not the Tea Party faction. None of them. In fact,they have almost always expanded its powers, costs, and its deficits, or simply let the status-quo remain (paraphrased from another site).

So you can spout your tired old rhetoric about small(er) government but when the opportunity is present it just never happens. I am a Democrat and an LDS one at that but I am also fiscally conservative and a moderate on most of my views - yep, a rare breed indeed. I have not and do not buy into any national party platform as I have my own personal platform which I believe most Americans have their own also. I will not go lock-step with any party but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case with many of my fellow Utahns that think a particular letter defines the individual or themself.

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT

Can I just suggest that there's not a more pointless exercise on the planet than to define one's political opponents. "Liberals believe" or "conservatives believe"; it's all just nonsense. "Well, as everyone knows, conservatives believe in torturing kittens. As it happens, I just disagree with that. I think we should gently pet kittens." Really, what's the point.
Liberals and conservatives are mostly reasonable, intelligent, patriotic people who happen to disagree about policy. And those disagreements don't necessarily mean we care about the same issues. Conservatives do actually believe in smaller government. That doesn't mean liberals believe in larger government. It could mean, for example, that the size of government is an issue liberals don't care about at all.

Emajor
Ogden, UT

Lost in DC,

Thank you for the delicious dose of irony in your last post:

"One could also easily argue that liberals do have one very solid standard – “everything associated with conservatives is bad” seems to be their most solid standard."

Preceded by:

"one could easily argue liberals have no standards, whatever suits them at the time is OK"

You accused "liberals" of doing the same thing you yourself did two sentences earlier. Just thought I would point that out.

As far as Mr. Mahas's editorial, you can find an example of conservatives doing everything he accuses liberals of doing. It's a deliberately partisan article that ignores practices within his own political party. That's worth pointing out too.

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