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Comments about ‘Letters: It's clear: limit vehicles’

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Published: Wednesday, Jan. 2 2013 12:00 a.m. MST

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Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Curt. Wonderful sarcasm but liberals will be offended and confused by your accurate demonstration of logic.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

Curt,

There are certainly reasonable analogies to be made between guns and cars.

Unfortunately, yours is not one of them. Makes absolutely no sense.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Curt; see what I mean by JoeBlow's reaction?

omni scent
taylorsville, UT

Curt, I don't believe we should outlaw cars, but I realize that it is in the interest of public safty that we regulate them. Cars have to pass safty examinations. They must all have saftey features like seatbelts. You must licence and register your car every year. People who operate cars have to pass both a written and a functional exam. On the renewal every 5 years, there are questions about health and an eye exam. There are some cars deemed not street-legal (like a Formula-1 racecar). What practical measures for something that can be so dangerous! We should apply those same principles to other things, don't you think?

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

Mountain Man...acurate analogy..please. The only purpose for a gun is to kill. The purpose of a car is not to kill..when mishandled they can kill, so society heavily regulates all of the activities of driving that lead to mishandling (see above responses).

You know such tortured logic is the only reason many of us hang around here..we refuse to let ya'll just willy nilly spout this stuff without argument. I think it's going to be a fun year for us.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

@ Omni scent. You are behind your times when it comes to guns so please allow me to bring you up to date. All guns have safeties, its a device that prohibits the gun from firing until it is switched off. In every state, you must have a license (concealed weapons permit) or at least a hunting license to carry a weapon and there is a back ground check when you buy a gun and a functional education class required to obtain the permit to carry and even to go hunting and it has to be renewed depending on the state every year. Just as it is illegal to drive Forumula-1 race car on the streets, there are existing laws against many kinds of firearms such as fully automatic weapons. Again, the problem isn't the good guys, its those bad guys who do not obey any laws, including gun laws. Please explain why you think criminal will obey more gun laws!

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Pragmatistferlife. The purpose of my guns is to protect my family. The police can't protect you or me any more than they protected those poor children in Sandy Hook or those people in the theater or anyone else from criminals who want to kill you!
A gun in my hand is far better than a cop on the phone. That is not only very logical but it is true! If you don't want to own a gun, that's your privilege. Please stop trying to deny me my privilege of self defense because as we have all seen, all the gun control laws in the world will not stop bad guys from getting guns.
I hang around here for the same reasons you do, I refuse to let ya'll just willy nilly spout your stuff without argument.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Mountanman You are behind your times when it comes to guns so please allow me to bring you up to date.

"All guns have safeties," FALSE
"In every state, you must have a license (concealed weapons permit) or at least a hunting license to carry a weapon" FALSE
"there is a back ground check when you buy a gun" Partially true, But not from Private citizens (classifieds or gunshows)
"a functional education class required to obtain the permit to carry and even to go hunting" FALSE
and it has to be renewed depending on the state every year. FALSE, unless your referring to your hunting licence which has nothing to do with the gun, but permission to harvest an animal.

Please at least use the truth to defend yourself.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . limit vehicles."

And don't forget -- gas tanks that hold not more than 5 gallons.

Christian 24-7
Murray, UT

Curt and Mountanman

Thanks for the laughs. This is a great analogy, and the libs are going nuts. What fun.

Too bad you are out of posts. I am not an expert on guns and gun laws to pick it up for you. I guess we just sit back an laugh at the circus about to commence.

Bring out the Volkswagen Beetle and filler-up!!!

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

Guns = Cars? It's a really dumb attempt at equivalence, but useful nonetheless.

You want to regulate guns the same way you regulate cars? Fine by me.

Take it on public streets? Register it and license it. Also, pay taxes on it.

You want to "fuel" it? That's taxed, too.

You want to operate it somewhere other than on your own private property? OK, but you must be licensed to operate it. Also, you must renew that license every few years, and pass a test to prove your competence and understanding of the applicable laws.

Oh - and if you plan to take it off your private property then you have to have at a minimum a liability insurance policy.

Treat guns the same as cars? Sure. See above.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Blue said it perfectly. His comment, with its good sense and thinking behind it, stands in stark contrast to many other comments here.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

mountain man..just where did I say I was going to deny you the right to own "a" gun. I would restrict some weaponry but that's a far cry from denying you "a" gun. Secondly in order for your "gun" to be more valuable than a cop on the phone..you would have to carry a loaded gun with you at all times..from room to room..or have a loaded gun in every room. Now you may just do that but if so I'm sure glad you live a thousand miles away. By the way..my personal experience with this is a close friend..gun enthusiast, active marine, who was awakened one night by a burgler downstairs. He grabbed his gun and blew the heck out of his house missing the burgler all nine times. In the meantime his wife had called the police who responded while he was re-loading and difused the situation..that's the anecdote I have to make my bayesian probablity prediction. A true story.

Grover
Salt Lake City, UT

Chris and Monty: The laugh here is that since neither of you has ever taken a logic class you can't see your entire "cars are like guns" is a classic of example of false logic that would give your opponents the win in any high school debate. Alas, the comment boards of newspapers have no such rules and the megaphone is the same size for a real logician and a ranting partisan who will stop at nothing (including faulty logic) to make a point.

If you want to play the game, Blue makes excellent logical followup questions to your attempt to discredit gun control. Yearly registration, special taxes for ammo, taxes for the excess cost to society as a whole for you to exercise your "freedom". Hey wasn't it one of your side who said: "Freedom isn't free"? You brought up excellent points for the non-gun crowd to work on, because all of your concern about mental health and video games will disappear as soon as the heat is off for gun restrictions.

merich39
Salt Lake City, UT

I love the author's analogy. Let's roll with it but turn it around just a bit.

Let's require all gun owners to be licensed and have to periodically take a proficiency test in order to maintain their license.

Let's require all gun owners to acquire liability insurance on each and every gun they acquire. If their gun causes any kind of harm or damage, their liability insurance covers the costs of that damage.

And let's tax guns and ammo and dedicate those taxes collected to cover the costs of providing security at schools and other public venues against those guns and gun owners.

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Satire is a useful means to make a point. Swift, Twain, and Mencken were great at it. The reductio ad adsurdum approach to an alleged double standard is a fine form of satire when properly applied (see Swift's "A Modest Proposal"). Unfortunately, Curt misses the boat here. Satire doesn't work when your foil undermines your case rather than buttressing it. As Blue and omni scent have pointed out, automobiles are already heavily regulated because of their potential lethality when misused (and fatalities are an unintended byproduct of car use, not the specific intent as is the case with guns). The gun/car analogy only points towards more regulation of guns as the logical conclusion. It is not a compelling argument. It fails as satire.

However, to continue beat the dead car/gun horse...
There were 1.1 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles driven in 2009. Assuming an average speed of 30 mph (accounting for iding time, etc.), this works out to 1.1 fatalities per 33 million hours of vehicle use. I doubt that the statistic has been measured, but what is the comparable value for firearms (fatalities per hour of use)? Any takers?

Lagomorph
Salt Lake City, UT

Whoops--- 100/30 = 3.3 (not 33). Mea culpa. Gotta watch those decimal places.

merich39
Salt Lake City, UT

In the author's sarcastic analogy, he suggests that we limit car ownership/possession to only the police, military and government officials. This is a red herring.

I know literally hundreds of people who support increased regulation on gun ownership. I don't know a single person who supports a complete ban on private ownership of every kind of gun. Certainly there are people in this country who do believe that all private ownership of any kind of gun should be banned. But those people are a very small minority.

It isn't all or nothing. We already have bans against private ownership of nuclear bombs, missile launchers and such. We can include in the list of banned arms such things as assault style rifles and high-capacity ammo clips.

Ford DeTreese
Provo, UT

The DesNews specializes in printing ridiculous analogies, as long as they are conservative analogies, but I repeat myself.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

Exactly merich,

I am for reasonable gun restrictions, but if ANYONE introduced legislation restricting my right (or your right) to own a gun for protections, I would be out protesting loudly.

So, while you can find some on the left who will advocate total firearm bans, they are by far the miniscule minority. Will any of you "lefties" admit to wanting a total gun ban?

By contrast, MANY on this DN board in the past have advocated that there should be absolutely NO restriction on the type of gun you own, the number of guns, or places that you should be allowed to carry it.

How many of you fall into this category?

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