Comments about ‘Letter: Sandy Hook, abortion and freedom of choice’

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Published: Monday, Dec. 31 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

...and my "Freedom of Choice" is to allow others to have theirs.

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

If that is your argument against abortion, you have truly lost the debate.

This is seriously a new low for abortion opponents.

DougS
Oakley, UT

To "LDS liberal" Even when their choice is to kill children?
To "Kalindra" You clearly demonstrate the "low" in advocates for abortion.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

"My "freedom of choice" is to only take a life when my life, or my loved ones' lives, is threatened."

And Doug, believe it or not, that's what a lot of pro-choice people want as well. Unfortunately, the radical right is even battling this. Folks like Rick Santorum have proposed to completely outlaw abortion, no matter the reason or consequence.

Here's the key issue, FREEDOM. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one!

Leave this deeply personal decision to those who are involved.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

I am generally anti abortion and generally pro gun. But this is a nonsensical letter that conflates two hot button issues and to no good effect.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

Doug, just because you believe that the second an egg and a sperm meet a "human" is formed doesn't mean the rest of us do. So at it's foundation I reject your premise that all pregnancy ending acts are "killing children". Your premise is a religious argument, because without a life exciting soul (either in the egg and sperm or waiting to enter) these are just cells growing towards the potential of a human. So unless you can show the world the soul the secular argument (that seperates church and state) must prevail..lest you subject yourself to someone elses religious beliefs (sharia law), which I doubt you'll do.

George
Bronx, NY

I think this maybe a very convincing argument if we all started with the same false assumption Doug does that a fetus is the same as a child but that is far to large a leap in logic for many of us to make.

Owl
Salt Lake City, UT

Pragmatist,
Just when does a blastocyst/fetus become a human? If it's not as delivery, then the line has no clear location. Those who believe life begins at conception are no less wrong than the floating criteria applied by others.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

Doug, the problem is your argument can be torn up by any college student. Your argument which you set up isn't exactly cognitively challenging to set on its head.

Watch:

So you claim that those who desire stricter regulations on gun control are acting hypocritically as they are for "choice" when it comes to abortion, right?

Did it occur to you, that you folks, who argue that "choice" and "freedom" are being "attacked" by gun control advocates are acting hypocritically by taking away the "choice" and "freedom" of the parents?

Using your own logic, how can one argue that we cannot have stricter gun control because it "takes away freedom" while arguing against "choice" when it comes to abortion?

So I suggest that Doug:

1. Admits that these 2 issues need to be kept separate, as they should. They are 2 completely different and unrelated issues.
2. Admit that he and his ilk are acting hypocritically by advocating "choice" on one hand while arguing against "choice" on the other.
3. Get a college education to learn how to think deeper and rationally rather than merely regurgitate old AM radio talking points, emotion, and hate speech.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

Owl, At birth is the definite point. Aside from that it's conjecture and opinion both of which have been used to reach current policy. That's the point..there isn't an objective point of humaness prior to birth. There are pretty good markers for public policy that consider all points of view..but inception isn't one of them.

Christian 24-7
Murray, UT

I have never heard of puppies, or kittens, or fish growing in a human womb. It is always human.

What a sorry bunch of excuses for terminating inconvenient humans!

Next our seniors will become inconvenient, and then the republicans, and you will want to terminate them too.

If you parents don't do what is convenient shall we terminate them?

All the rationalization, convoluted reasoning, or name changing in the world will never make it okay to terminate (murder) inconvenient (conceived by irresponsible choices) humans babies.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

"I have never heard of puppies, or kittens, or fish growing in a human womb. It is always human."

What a strange comment.

"All the rationalization, convoluted reasoning, or name changing in the world will never make it okay to terminate (murder) inconvenient (conceived by irresponsible choices) humans babies."

Well then, if that is what you believe, don't have an abortion. I am going to take a guess, though, that you are male, and therefore would never have to worry about that decision anyway.

"To "Kalindra" You clearly demonstrate the "low" in advocates for abortion."

Doug, can you show us where in Kalindra's post she advocate's for abortion? It is a short post, and I cannot see it anywhere. Where are you seeing it?

And why do you think it is a "low"? Or did you just see what she wrote and repeat it and you thought that was clever somehow?

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

50,000,000 lives were destroyed in America since 1976 by the choice made by the mother of those unborn babies. It doesn't matter whether you believe that life starts when conception takes place but it does matter that you fully understand that life ends when that abortion takes place.

What is different from someone pointing a gun at you and pulling the trigger or having a doctor use a vacuum to destroy your life, you are still dead.

Weeping and wailing because there are monsters out there who dare to make afraid while you drive to the abortion clinic to destroy a life within yourself is the highest form of irony.

Respect for life is not situational. How can anyone say that they revere life and that guns must be abolished when they participate in the greatest destruction of life ever known in the history of this earth?

Nan BW
ELder, CO

Abortion is wrong, except in some rare circumstances. I've had an unplanned pregnancy that wasn't at all convenient, but I am extremely grateful that it became a full term pregnancy anyway. I would not want to live with the knowledge that I took a "convenient" way out, and I am thankful I don't have to. Periodically I receive a note from the human whom I bore (inconveniently) thanking me for choosing life, but in the years I didn't have a relationship with him I was glad too.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

MR.."It doesn't matter whether you believe that life starts when conception takes place but it does matter that you fully understand that life ends when that abortion takes place." Of course it matters whether you believe that life takes place at conception. Becuase if it doesn't and you terminate an early pregnancy you aren't terminating a "human life". A very different scenario than terminating early developing cells. You continually overlay your personal values on the discussion, and because they are your values you believe they are apriori. They aren't..end of story. Live as you will but many of us refuse to accept your tyranny.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

"It doesn't matter whether you believe that life starts when conception takes place but it does matter that you fully understand that life ends when that abortion takes place."

Mike, if life hasn't started then it has not ended. I don't believe in the argument about potential life either. Each sperm and each egg is arguably potential life in that context, yet I think that saying contraception is somehow immoral is a silly argument. And I don't see much more validity in the argument that once that egg and sperm come together it is now suddenly life.

But, thank goodness, I don't have to make that decision. And, quiet frankly, neither do you, Mike. We are guys, we will never have to make, what I can only imagine, is a very difficult decision of having an abortion.

Tell you what, before we start worrying about the choices women have to make regarding this issue, why don't we try to make sure that all children already living in the world have enough to eat, access to good health care, education, safety, freedom, prosperity, etc. . . That should take up enough of our time.

higv
Dietrich, ID

Well if you don't like stealing don't steal. Same argument for don't get aborthion. Laws are here to protect people. I would never abuse my children but there should be no law against child abuse as they are someone elses kids. That is the flaw in the pro so called choice argument. Bad situations ok to abort. Do we kill people already born since they are in bad circumstances? What is the diffrence there?

There You Go Again
Saint George, UT

"...Gun control...".

The weapon the coward used at Sandy Hook was a killing machine.

The weapons used by cowards who murder human beings are killing machines.

If Americans want to own killing machines, the 2nd Amendment is there to protect that choice.

If Americans want to abort babies, that choice is protected by the law.

If you don't like killing machines or abortion, work to change the law.

Screwdriver
Casa Grande, AZ

I personally abhor abortion. But banning it would work the same as banning guns. It wouldn't work. Are we really going to investigate all miscarriages as a possible illegal abortion? When it's your wife? Would it be ok then?

We could hope to curtail abortions. What actually works is widely available birth control, lot of YOU adopting babies, opportunity and sex education.

What doesn't seem to work is just telling kids not to have sex. It just doesn't work.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

I'm pro-choice but I favor seeking a path by which we have fewer abortions. The nations with the lowest abortion rates in the world are not actually those where it is illegal but rather Belgium and the Netherlands, nations with comprehensive sex education and wide readily accessible availability of birth control. But no... pro-lifers won't let us have that kind of stuff...

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