Comments about ‘Letters: A solution to moral decay’

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Published: Saturday, Dec. 29 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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embarrassed Utahn!
Salt Lake City, UT

Morality and belief in God are NOT the same thing. I know many Utahns find this incredulous, but it is true. BTW: Whose "God" do you think we should follow? Just a rhetorical question....I know the answer.

Casa Grande, AZ

What is better about being divided and have millions of small organizations duplicate the same hierarchies to get something done?

A national government is MUCH more efficient than 1 million small, powerless organizations.

Durham, NC

Why don't we not worry about which God, because at the end of the day, most of the worlds religions have some core tenants they share in common. Not killing, not stealing, helping the poor and needy. So lets not worry about if God has brown eyes, blue eyes, or what ever.

In india we see a non-chirstian nation rising up in revolt over the rape and eventual death of a young lady. We don't need to agree which God is right or wrong, we can agree no matter what religion one follows, these acts are not acceptable and will not be tolerated.

The only problem i have with the original comments is the notion that "we the people" are distinctly separate from the government. If we believe in the mantra of our nations founding fathers - the government is "we the people". It is truly appropriate for us to respond to events via our churches, our communities, and through our government. They are not separate, but a system that is to work together.

South Jordan, UT

"Where are the churches to teach moral correctness?"
Religious texts are some of the most violent books ever written. So I wouldn't say they should be the standard bearers or moral correctness in the fight against gun violence.

Huntsville, UT

I'm sorry, but I don't want to be dictated to by your "moral correctness". You'd impose your version on me and that would simply create more divisiveness as I fought for my own rights.

Morality is relative. Religion is not the only bearer of morals. Your god may or may not be the god others choose to follow.

Teach your children, let others teach theirs.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

When people resist goodness because they reject the concept of "God" we have chaos. Too many demand that we listen to their "wisdom". They relive the sorrow and confusion that others who rejected God have already lived. They chase after their appetites and passions without religious restriction, foolishly thinking that just because they reject God that they are immune from the consequences of breaking eternal laws.

Society suffers. Families suffer. We suffer.

The pride that some feel in their assumption that they "know it all" becomes their greatest stumbling block. Knowledge of God and acceptance of him in our lives shows proper humility when we contemplate our "nothingness" in relation to all of his creations. He waits. He has the solution. When we gain sufficient wisdom, we will listen to him. Until then, we will suffer.

GK Willington
Salt Lake City, UT

I am going to go w/ the consensus on this.

In the book Freakonomics; the author points out that, "Morality represents the way people would like to work" Thus, it is subjective.

We need to use common sense more & be less judgmental.

Ernest T. Bass
Bountiful, UT

Religion forcing so-called "morals" on humanity has done far more harm than good.

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT

As it happens, I believe in God, try to practice personal morality, and try to teach it to my children. None of that is remotely relevant to the recent shooting in Connecticut. The problem there wasn't that the killer hadn't been taught standards of personal morality. His surviving family members were as horrified as the rest of us by his actions. The problem was that he was insane.
I'm fully in favor of teaching morality in the home. I'm also in favor of increasing funding for the treatment of mental illness, even if that requires a tax increase.

Ogden, UT

Mike Richards,
You are unable to separate your narrow concept of God from basic and widespread human morality. People aren't rejecting "goodness" by rejecting God. They are embracing goodness without also tying themselves to religious belief. Why is this so difficult to understand? Simply because you and some others are unhappy and rudderless without your religion, it doesn't mean that millions of others cannot think for themselves. A quote by the late Humanist Kurt Vonnegut sums this up nicely:

"Being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead"

Think about that one for awhile.

Cedar City, UT

Morality is doing what is right regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told regardless of what is right.

Salt Lake City, UT

"I'm sorry, but I don't want to be dictated to by your "moral correctness"."

On the plus side, if we were a theocracy in this state maybe BYUs gun ban would be extended to the rest of the schools in this state.

Hayden, ID

@ RanchHand. As a history buff, I think Pol Pot, Mao ste Tung, Karl Marx and others had the same opinion about religion defining morality as you do. Are we all allowed to decide what is moral then? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. If each person gets to define morality for themselves, we are in serious trouble because noting is immoral and nothing is moral, it depends on your feelings!

Salt Lake City, Utah

@mountain man and mike

you surely cannot be arguing that proclaiming a belief in god some how gives people some moral high ground. The many posters on this threads that claim to be so religious have proven that false time and again. religion or a "belief in god" does not bring one any closer to acting in a moral or ethical manner.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Where does "goodness" come from? Where does life come from? Where does order and harmony come from?

Some may require a "bribe" to do good. Some may do good because they fear the penalty of breaking the law. Some try to do good because they love God and trust him enough to follow him because they have faith enough to not need an excuse or a reward.

The "philosophies of men" are toddler babble compared to the doctrines of God, but, apparently many prefer to follow those philosophies. Imagine a world where many reject the source of righteousness. Does that explain why right has become wrong, where many demand that government force "goodness". Does that explain why many reject their responsibility to teach goodness to their children?

Goodness is not "relative". The source we use to define "goodness" determines why we seek goodness in society.


Morals do appear "relative."

Its hard to see the dividing line between those who believe in God and those who don't practice religion/believe in God that some believe exists. We have religious leaders abusing children, committing adultery, and telling lies. We have "religious" people judging those who are poor/don't owe federal income tax, are gay, or appear to be immigrants, and demonizing those who have differing opinions. They claim to care for life, while opposing contraception which saves lives. They claim they uphold laws, believe in democracy and the Constitution while arming themselves to supplant law enforcement, and the democratic system of govt, established by the Constitution, where grievances and policies are shaped at the ballot box.

Being religious or believing in God is not an accurate measure of what one's moral values or principles are applied in life---which is why fewer people are choosing to become involved with religious institutions.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

The problem is, who do we trust to provide the control required to make us lead a moral life. And who gets to define just what is a moral life.

The fact of life is that we will be controlled by someone. And one of the prime ingredients of freedom is having the “permission” to do what we want to do.

Sin was created by religion as a tool to overpower the resistance that people might have in accepting the words of the enslavers. By the automatic guilty verdict, people had to have the services of the men who had direct contact with God.

The groups we call government are the only ones who have the right to force us to be and do as the group defines. But that doesn’t stop all the other groups from trying to enforce their version of right and wrong. Lacking the force option they must us imaginary threats and consequences to obtain the control over others. It’s called morality.

Hank Pym

re: Mountanman 2:32 p.m. Dec. 29

"...same opinion about *religion* defining morality as you do. Are we all allowed to decide what is moral then? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me... If each person gets to define morality for themselves, we are in serious trouble because noting is immoral and nothing is moral, it depends on your *feelings*!"

Allow me to point out the inconsistency; religion is based on feelings. So, tell me why religion is the ultimate decider of morality?

Ethics/morality has some basis consistent & rational thought.... unlike religion.

Ogden, UT

"Are we all allowed to decide what is moral then?"

As a Christian living in the modern ages, you already do. The Old Testament is replete with archaic and extremist moral codes that no one in their right mind follows today. And as a "history buff", you should already know that religion has caused numerous barbaric conflicts throughout history, so your example of Communist dictators being amoral because of their atheism is ridiculous. Do I need to bring up Christian Spanish conquistadors or the Taliban?

Mike Richards,
You didn't address my point that most of the basic human morals exist independently of religion. Your entire premise that all goodness comes from your god is without evidence, without rational argument, and cannot explain why many non-Christian and non-religious people throughout the ages have lived moral lives.

Hank Pym

re: Emajor 12/29 at 16:52

Here is another example... the Albigensian Crusade. If you do some research, you'll find this example particulary deplorable.

If memory serves, it is where the quote, "Kill 'em all & let God sort them out" comes from

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