@Neanderthal;Do unto others... Ever heard of Karma? Same concept,
not Christian. It's a basic tenet, not necessarily a religious one either.
I think the letter writer is correct. All US school children should have to
recite the rosary at the beginning of each school day. Oh wait, you're not
Catholic? So whose religion is the school supposed to teach?
@UtahBlueDevil"I am by no means a secularist.... A moral person
doesn't need a God to tell them which is right and wrong... 'do unto
others' applies to secularist and the faithful."The
'do unto others' thing came from a God. The God of the Christian
Bible.Most religions have good things to say about what is right and
wrong, i.e., do unto others and how to get along with fellow humans.Some religions' teachings go beyond that and teach the requirements to
get to heaven after you die.
@Truth"Secularism teaches the opposite.Secularism
teaches there is no right and wrong, that morality is relative, asks "which
value?", that dishonesty, greed, even the murder of school
children is neither right nor wrong.and 'intrinsically'
can never be"Are you absolutely kidding me? Have you ever been
to any of these so called secular countries? Is your claim supported by any
real data that shows we have lower crime rates than these countries? Is you
claim supported by any laws that provide for this relativity you speak of. For
example, are you aware that in the EU it is illegal for advertisers to make
claims in their adds that are not supportable by research? Here in the US,
advertisers can make any claim they want... this is the moral superiority our
government provides?I am by no means a secularist.... but is crazy,
unsupported claims like these that make me worried for the "God" fearing
movement when just making stuff up to support a point seems to run rampant. A
moral person doesn't need a God to tell them which is right and wrong...
"do unto others" applies to secularist and the faithful. Your claims are absurd.
Gildas says: "There is a moral vacuum in the consciousnesses of many of the
youngest members of society,..."If there is a "moral
vacuum" it is the fault of the parents, not the schools.
The Truth. “More importantly recognizing God, recognizes that
our rights come from God NOT men,”If that statement is true,
why are rights so poorly distributed among people? Some people don’t even
get to experience life itself let along all the rest.
Was God in our schools when we used to segregate by race?Was God in
our schools when hundreds of women and children were massacred at Wounded Knee?
We just had the 122nd anniversary of this tragic event.What I am
getting at is we have had a long history of not so kind moments in our history
before and after Engel v. Vitale. Lots of countries are more "secular"
than America and have less violence, even violence in schools...And
like I said before, all sorts of people bring God and their beliefs into our
schools each and every day. Religion nor prayer is outlawed by the government
in our schools, only state-sponsored prayer.
OK. In Utah everyone knows who's religious views will be taught.
That's a no brainer. However, how will the other state's handle this
issue when they don't have such a state religion like Utah?Remember, it was a Mormon family in Santa Fe, TX, which brought a lawsuit
against the local school district that argued that allowing students to lead
prayers at home football games violated the First Amendment by creating a
"Put God back in schools"Yes, and give him/her a gun.
re: mark 7:45 p.m. Dec. 29Nietzsche once said, "After coming
into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands."In other words, the disingenuous duplicity of the true believer is the
rule not the exception. p.s Why does God need to return to
school... Isn't He omniscient??
@truth the posters ont hese threads that claim to be the most religious
are the same ones that most often post lies and bare false witness, perhaps they
should be the change they wish to see before demanding others fallow their lead.
The truth, nothing of what you say in this post makes the least bit of sense.
Especially this: It is only a religious and moral people that have
ever been able to temper there own behavior.I'm not religious,
but I "temper" my behavior very well, thank you. Much better then many
Which God is an irrelevant question. It does not matter. it is silly
questionThe question just diverts from what is actually relevant.The community should control their own schools not the government.More importantly recognizing God, recognizes that our rights come from
God NOT men, that there is right and wrong, and an absolute morality.Which provides the backbone of morals and ethics that is sorely missing.Secularism teaches the opposite.Secularism teaches there is
no right and wrong, that morality is relative, asks "which value?", that dishonesty, greed, even the murder of school children is neither
right nor wrong.and 'intrinsically' can never be, no act or behavior can be right or wrong, regardless of what a group of
people decide or a leader says.If there is no right there is no
wrong.Secularism is just wontoness controlled by the power of big
government.And who, other than the left, would want to live under a
government powerful enough to control all behavior? Because that is what will be
required in a Godless world..It is only a religious and moral people
that have ever been able to temper there own behavior.
God is in our schools... maybe not in words, but in deeds and the lives of those
who attend them each and every day. It was in the lives of those teachers who
sacrificed their lives to try to protect those kids. Living a good Christian,
Muslim or Hindu life doesn't mean you run around yammering about your God
everywhere you go, but beliefs should be reflected in how you live your life and
treat others.Teachers can demonstrate whet it is to be a true
follower without once having to mention God in their classrooms. Several
teachers did just that by making the ultimate sacrifice and demonstration of
their faith. Actions - not words.
I could only find one alleged incident of mass shootings in a public school
before prayer was banned, but many afterwards as we all know. I think the
writer may have a great point.The secularization of society has
meant that, in a great many cases, if a child is not made aware of basic shared
moral beliefs at school, such as the immorality of crimes against life, liberty
and property, he will quite likely not find them anywhere else in his immediate
experience. What effect that would tend to is fairly obvious. There is a moral
vacuum in the consciousnesses of many of the youngest members of society,
actually augmented by the "value free" approach to "social
Great idea. Then our "christian" schools will be terrorist targets.All you that suggest to "put god back in school" don't
really believe your religion at all do you? Not a bit. Nor your political
religion.You now want to turn religious training over to the
guvment'? If God is in your children's hearts then he is
in schools isn't he? Ye of little faith.
Is there a verifiable incident of disaster where God was present that he
mitigated or prevented the disaster? Is there any statistics that might show
that only non-religious people have accidents, get killed, go crazy?As the old minister said, Prey to God about your problems, THEN DO.
I don't understand how someone that believes in a god would think that he
is NOT in schools. Do you really think that, if there is a god, man's
government is more powerful then him, or her? Do you really think that
government can ban him, or her from anywhere?Also, prayer is not
banned in schools, nor is religion. Your religion goes with you wherever you go.
Or do you think you leave your religion behind when you step out of your chapel?
And you can pray to your hearts content in school. Bow your head and say a
little prayer. I am sure that their are plenty of students that do just this
before finals.But what you want is to push your religion on those
that do not believe as you believe. I don't think most religious people
want this, but a very vocal group does. And they need to knock it off. I, for
one, want nothing to do with your religion.
No. Secular Canada, Norway, Sweden, Spain, UK, and Germany all have significant
(4x-40x) lower homicide rates (it's a rate so it accounts for population
differnece since it's homicides per 100k people) than the US.
God is at our schools. Every teacher brings in their own ethical based, much of
it based on their own personal religious teachings, which effects their actions
every day as teachers. I can't help but think of those teachers who laid
their lives down to protect their students. Most of our high school students in
Utah attend release time Seminary where they are engulfed with religion and God.
But we all bring whatever to the classroom and all facets of our life. We also
seem to forget history as well. The worst school mass murder happened in 1927,
well before the Supreme Court decision Engel v. Vitale that "took prayer out
of the classroom." I know many teachers in both private and public schools
that pray for their students day and night to inspire them, to teach effective
lessons, to help their students in what ever problems are affecting them. God
is watching over our schools iMO. A rote prayer over the morning announcements
or Bible reading does not bring students closer to God.
You're right, Mr. Tillett. Adam Lanza killed 26 people in his school
because he wasn't forced to pray to the Christian God or use the phrase
"one nation under God" every day in the classroom. Where on earth are
you getting this viewpoint from?Here's something to think
about: Europe is growing more and more secular and yet has a gun violence rate
far far lower than the US. So the solution is actually to remove God not only
from schools, but the entire public sphere!
This really seems like another lame attempt from the right wing to eliminate Sex
Education and Evolution in our schools rather than a serious call for citizens
to become more virtuous.
@ UtahBlueDevil 12/29 8:16aWe REALLY need to worry about the
psychologically maladjusted that think God is exclusively on their side.
Look, if God had wanted to, He could easily have given the shooter a massive
heart attack the second he approached the school. What you're suggesting
is that God did not intervene, because the kids weren't required to recite
some rote, formulaic prayer every morning. That, apparently, so offended God
that He decided to let a madman butcher them. As it happens, I believe in
God, and I pray to Him, and I wonder why He allows this kind of evil to occur. I
certainly don't have all the answers, though I feel some peace when I pray.
But I absolutely and completely reject the absurd theology that says that
'taking God out of our schools' has anything whatsoever to do with
this kind of tragedy.
Lyle, while I'm all for the individual developing a personal relationship
and faith in God, that approach hasn't worked in the past when you consider
all the molested children in churches and religous organizations, ie Boy Scouts.
Lyle, we should assign you to find us an alternative.
In some of the few places that force religion in schools we have sent our
military to bring peace and freedom to their country.
What greater good could be done in a school that could only be done with
Good questions dave! I'd like to know how the author of this letter has
the audacity to use the following..."If you cannot trust in a
God who answers prayers of faith, what can you believe in?"The
parents and loved ones of the victims must take great solace in attitudes like
Which God? The God of Catholics? Protestants? Evangelicals? Jews? Muslims?
Wiccans? Buddhists? Hundus? Hare Krisna? Satanists? [Nme any other maor or
minor religion]? And what about agnostics and athiests? Imposing one form of
religious teaching on soeone whoe family believe in another way is NOT proper or
ethical. We taught our children religion and faith in God at home. That's
where the teaching of religion and God belongs (unless, of course, parents
choose to send their children to private religious schools).
In one breath people will rant about getting the government out of their lives
and in the other they'll demand that the government dictate the most
intimate decisions we make. Which is it, guys?
How does one "put God in school"? What does this mean in reality? How
would this stop a person not attending from going in and doing harm?This seems to be a bit of an non sequitur: God is not in school so people go
to school and harm children.. It does not follow any logic.I
started school in the mid 60's and we never prayed or studied the bible.
Perhaps this God in schools thing was/is regional.Maybe someone can
logically explain this to me.
Yes Lyle secularists would object to putting God in schools because it's
the secularists and secularism that prevents the children in Utah from having to
pray to Mother Mary before class, and it's the secularists that don't
allow half a class to leave math class and go pray to Allah when they feel
it's appropriate. Believe what you choose Lyle...but it's
secularism that allows you that choice without the influence from a more
politically or even physically powerful religion telling you you can't.
Teaching about God is best done in the homes. If you want an all-day
religious-based education for your children, find the money to pay for a private
school that focuses on faith-based teaching.
While I would love to see faith inserted into all aspects of daily life, I fail
to see how having God in School would have prevented any of these incidents. It
is a nice thought, but really wont result in anything. Think back to the Amish
school that was attacked several years ago where several children were
slaughtered - a very God fearing group and school. I wish it were
that simple. But mentally unstable people don't worry about God too much.
Do you honestly think all of America would agree with your choice of "whose
God" we should all be forced to worship? I suggest you get out and see our
Nation instead of spouting what I call absolute nonsense. I'm sure all
these mass murderers share one commonality....self-righteous delusions.
Let's put God back into not only schools but make him a priority in our
lives! Let's put Ethics back where it belongs!
How would increased religion help at all?