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Comments about ‘What others say: Focus on real global threats rather than end-of-the-world wackiness’

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Published: Tuesday, Dec. 25 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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Demo Dave
Holladay, UT

For the sake of political expediency, it's easier to deny man-made threats to the planet than to confront the awful facts. This is especially true of Republicans. I suppose that ignorance really is bliss, but nothing goes away by pretending it isn't real.

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

This should have been published before December 21, then I would have been impressed that there was still some sanity in this world.

chilly
Salt Lake City, UT

For Pete's sake Des News, it's 21 degrees with a foot of snow at my house right now. How cold would it have to be to make you feel like global warming doom wasn't lurking around the corner?

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Chilly, it's -28 C (about -18F) where I'm at today, although only a few centimetres of snow on the ground. Nonetheless, this does not discredit the evidence of man's influence on the climate. Merry Christmas.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Why do those of you who buy into this man made global warming nonsense get so angry with those of us who don't? If you who have fallen for this hoax and believe it, go ahead and sit in your hybrid, shut off your electricity, abandon your modern polluting conveniences and go on believing you are saving the planet and leave the rest of us alone while we enjoy our lives without all the irrational fears that you embrace! Why try to force the rest of us to adapt our lives to your fears?

chilly
Salt Lake City, UT

Hutterite,

No statistically relevant warming in the last 16 years, despite atmospheric CO2 concentrations increasing by one twelfth. None of the global warming doom and gloomers predicted this "pause". The climate modelers have been dead wrong.

I trust you are not using fossil fuel for heating in your -28C location. Merry Christmas to you too. Try to relax a little!

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Are you kidding me?

This the kind of fools gold that has made Glenn Beck $millions

one old man
Ogden, UT

There is already enough wackiness in the world without adding any more.

God doesn't need to do any work to bring about the end of the world.

Just let us humans take care of it.

We're already doing a very good job.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@chilly
We're heading for the warmest year on record for Utah and the U.S. We've had 14 record highs at Salt Lake City to 0 record lows this year.

"None of the global warming doom and gloomers predicted this "pause". "

The 2000s were .2F warmer than the 1990s, not quite the 2-3C/century pace, but the idea that there is a pause... why'd you pick 16 years? Because you're cherrypicking a span of years where the first year was very anomalously warm (1998). Climate scientists use 30 year climate norms, but you can't use that, since it would get in the way of the point you're trying to make. 14/14 warmest years in the modern record are 1998-2011.

@Mountanman
"Why do those of you who buy into this man made global warming nonsense get so angry with those of us who don't? If you who have fallen for this hoax"

I have a degree in meteorology and obviously as a result also have a lot of friends who study meteorology and climate and people like you claiming we're all fraudsters promoting a hoax... and you wonder why someone like I could find it frustrating?

one old man
Ogden, UT

Shhhh. Be quiet, ATL. Facts only confuse some folks.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Its really cold here today and it is going to snow later. It may be warmer than normal somewhere else today. Why is the fact that if is colder in some places today than normal is not proof of the global warming hoax but some of you say that because it may be warmer in other places today it is solid proof that global warming is real?

Atl 134. My doctor has a medical degree, has a license to practice medicine and has studied for years but he has made incorrect diagnosis many times to his admission. He is still a good physician but isn't correct all the time, no one is! Perhaps he isn't alone?

chilly
Salt Lake City, UT

One old man: "...ATL. Facts only confuse some folks..."
Notice that atl134 didn't refute my "facts". He merely accused me of "cherry picking" the most recent 16 years. He did it by cherry-picking even shorter time intervals.

atl134,
I'm thankful that we are still having warm decades. Good for earth's inhabitants! We are still emerging from the last ice-age. Some decades will be warm and others cooler. A good student of meteorology would know that most of the all time US State heat records were set in the 1930s. But that doesn't quite fit the narrative, does it?

My point (in my second post) is that the strong link between CO2 and temperature, claimed by many climate scientists and used as the main driver in the climate models... is being proved more incorrect with each passing year.

Bifftacular
Spanish Fork, Ut

Didn't the dynosaurs die when the earth cooled? What caused that warming and then subsequent cooling? Probabaly those selfish Triceratops.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Mountanman
"Why is the fact that if is colder in some places today than normal is not proof of the global warming hoax but some of you say that because it may be warmer in other places today it is solid proof that global warming is real?"

I would say neither are evidence for or against on their own and are only useful with proper context.

I am part of a forecasting contest, I'm plenty capable of knowing how badly I can miss a forecast. However, we have 100 years of data and a strong scientific knowledge of how the greenhouse effect works. The evidence strongly suggests a human component to recent climate change in addition to natural components which are always in play too (it's not a coincidence that 2007 1998 and 2010 were all El Nino years and are the top three warmest, in various orders depending on dataset).

@chilly
True, we beat many 1934 and 1936 records this year. The thing is, 1934 was not globally warm compared to present, only regionally. Extreme anomalies occur. This year will be the warmest for the US and 15-25 states but is set to probably be 9th warmest globally.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

"It is hard to know exactly when it became acceptable for U.S. politicians to be antiscience. For some two centuries science was a preeminent force in American politics, and scientific innovation has been the leading driver of U.S. economic growth since World War II. Advances in biology, based on evolutionary theory, created the biotech industry. New research in genetics is poised to transform the understanding of disease and the practice of medicine, agriculture and other fields. The Founding Fathers were science enthusiasts.

Yet despite its history and today's unprecedented riches from science, the U.S. has begun to slip off of its science foundation. Indeed, in this election cycle, some 236 years after Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence, several major party contenders for political office took positions that can only be described as “antiscience”: against evolution, human-induced climate change, vaccines, stem cell research, and more.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

"By falsely equating knowledge with opinion, postmodernists and antiscience conservatives alike collapse our thinking back to a pre-Enlightenment era, leaving no common basis for public policy. Public discourse is reduced to endless warring opinions, none seen as more valid than another. Policy is determined by the loudest voices, reducing us to a world in which might makes right the classic definition of authoritarianism.

Postmodernism infiltrated a generation of American education programs, It also infected journalism, where the phrase "there is no such thing as objectivity" is often repeated like a mantra.

Reporters who agree with this statement will not dig to get to the truth and will tend to simply present both sides of contentious issues, especially if they cannot judge the validity of scientific evidence. If the press corps does not strive to report objective reality, for which scientific evidence is our only reliable guide, the ship of democracy is set adrift from its moorings in the well-informed voter and becomes vulnerable once again to the tyranny that Jefferson feared."
(Scientific American: "Antiscience Beliefs Jeopardize U.S. Democracy")

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Mountanman,

The frustration is because we have to move on this together.

Let’s say you and I live on a river and the folks downstream are worried about water quality. You are careful not to pollute but I toss everything I’ve got into the river. It will make only limited difference what you do as long as I am still polluting, right?

The same with the atmosphere. We need a coordinated effort. It does only limited good for one community or nation to restrain itself.

There are cold spots and warm spots on the planet and cold and warm days. The issue is the global trend over time.

And yes, doctors or scientists can be wrong. But I notice you still go to one. Also, if you had a heart problem would you really go against the advice of nearly every cardiologist?

Chilly,

Seriously, you need to look at better data. Businesses that rely on the weather are making plans for long term change. These are numbers oriented folks getting the best data they can for their business plans not wild eyed environmental radicals.

Why do you assume that you know what professional climatologists do not?

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

My doctor is obligated to have malpractice insurance for when and if he is wrong and people are harmed. Wouldn't it be interesting if climatologist and environmental scientist could be sued for malpractice as well when what they say causes harm to people while producing noting of value to society except irrational fear?

airnaut
Everett, 00

@chilly
Salt Lake City, UT

My point (in my second post) is that the strong link between CO2 and temperature, claimed by many climate scientists and used as the main driver in the climate models... is being proved more incorrect with each passing year.

2:48 p.m. Dec. 25, 2012

================

Really?
Tell us oh most intelligent one;

What is the atmospheric compostition of our sister planet - Venus?
[And her 400 - 600+ degree surface temperature.]

Hint: it starts with a Carbon and ends with Di-Oxide.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Re:Mountanman

And what should be the penalty for the Republican Party, if the 98% of scientists are proven right, that man-made climate change is happening and is going to kill tens or hundreds of millions of people? What should happen to those who stood in the way of measures to minimize global warming/climate change?

The stakes are pretty high to be be engaged in this type of poker game.

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