pure Kool aid in that ice cream.
Reading the conservative responses to the liberal comments is like visiting an
alternate universe where 2+2=1.6 trillion and you can spend like crazy without
ever having to pay for it.
That's so sad. You spout off some nonsense, you can't defend it, and
yet you think you have said something profound. Yes, Riverton
cougar, and we are all very lucky that most people in this country saw through
the lies and misinformation that the Republicans and conservatives vomit. We
dodged a bullet last election.
If the entire property of the wealthy were confiscated, it would not fund our
federal government for even one year. The only way to fund the federal
government at current spending levels is a massive tax increase on everyone. Of
course, that would destroy the economy and so revenue would plummet. It seems we
have reached a tipping point - current spending is unsustainable.
Ha Ha...Love this story! Thank you! Also very funny to see those that worship at
the Church of Obama get so upset and so defensive...what is the matter with you
people? How can you possibly be so disingenuous and try to defend the outlandish
spending that is going on right now in our country?
You have no idea? No wonder Obama won reelection.
What in the world are you talking about, Riverton Cougar?
I meant $800 billion, not trillion; it is almost $1 trillion. Either way, the
point is that I'm pretty sure Reagan didn't sign that. And tell me
again how Reagan/Bush/Bush are responsible for Obama's failure to pass a
budget or decrease spending?
"The truth is that spending INCREASE under Obama is the lowest it has been
under any president except Clinton. Increased spending originated by Obama is a
conservative myth. Or perhaps, to be more accurate, a conservative lie."Oh, I didn't know Ronald Reagan signed the $800+ trillion stimulus
package in 2009. So, in other words you are saying it is still Bush's
fault. Where have I heard that before?"But then, truthfulness
is not one of those mythical conservative values we hear so much about."Since Obama and the democrats are all for truthfulness, could you please
tell us what happened during Fast and Furious, the terrorist attack in Benghazi,
and how some counties in swing states managed to get more than 100% turnout?
Isn't it funny how none of the "irregular" election results ended
up in Romney's favor?
"Wow, they really hit a nerve with the liberals out there."Oh oh. Somebody doesn't want "liberals" to talk. "The problem is that we don't have the money to keep
spending."Really? We (I assume the Feds) can't keep
spending? No more spending, huh? So what do we do? Just shut down
the millitary? No, I think the Feds should continue to spend. But
how about this, raise taxes back to a level that is reasonable, in other words a
level that can cover spending and pay down the debt. And also cut spending in a
reasoned well thought out manner. I really do hope that everyone
that are talk about deficit spending have been out spoken on the issue since
Ronald Reagan set us in this unsustainable path. I hope you people were outraged
when George HW Bush continued the reckless policy. I hope you were livid and
outspoken when George W Bush and the Republicans spent like drunken sailors. I
was, and I still am. But if you guys never said a word before, but
you are now just because of who the president is. Well, Johnny-come-latelys,
where were you?
Red, if you would take the time to do even a little fact checking, you would
learn that most of the spending being blamed on Obama is actually spending
policies that originated with administrations as far back as Reagan. The truth is that spending INCREASE under Obama is the lowest it has been
under any president except Clinton. Increased spending originated by Obama is a
conservative myth. Or perhaps, to be more accurate, a conservative lie.But then, truthfulness is not one of those mythical conservative values
we hear so much about.
Wow, they really hit a nerve with the liberals out there. The liberals so far
have desperately tried to justify spending. The problem is that we don't
have the money to keep spending. Obama in 2008 said that Bush's $500
billion deficits were wrong. As has been pointed out, Obama also said that he
would cut deficits in half. The recession that Obama dealt with in 2009 was
declared over in July 2009, that was almost 3 1/2 yeas ago that the recession
ended. Why is Obama still spending so much, the problem was resolved long
ago?Where do you liberals think that Obama will find the money to
pay for his spending? Even if he is given everything he wants for the fiscal
cliff deals, that only generate $20 billion in new revenue. With $1.2 Trillion
deficits, that is no where close to fixing anything. where are you planning on
coming up with the other $1.18 Trillion?
@Ultra BobDoes some business owe you a job?NO one owes
you anything, and no one said life would be easy or fair?The think
otherwise, is intellectual immaturity, built on a belief you are entitled to
take what another has.Why punish and take money away from NONPROFIT
organizations and institutions that benefit others and society in general.Charities help the poor and needy and many others. What good come
making it harder for them to help?Religion helps make better and
more productive citizens by teaching right and wrong, morals, and good
principles. Even marx recognized they atleast temper the behavior of the
people.And the more the people help each other the less government
we need, the smaller government we have, we the less government help we need,
the less government spending we need, less government will have less power and
control over us, and we are freer.How is all that a bad thing?And if you believe those organizations and religions are just
corporations, well their business sides, profit sides are taxed.--@one old manPopularity doesn't make you right,
but the left does love patting each other on the back.
The gross oversimplifications and broad-brush statements do nothing
constructive. This letter has zero substance and adds nothing to the
at pragmatistferlife (7:37 a.m. Dec. 22) and Onion Daze (12:11 a.m. Dec.
22)...Or, maybe the Greeks are like American 5th graders
(Where's Jeff Foxworthy when you need him?).p.s. I love how
conservatives keep pushing American Exceptionalism. Yet, they are whiney
Where is this free stuff? Where can I sign up for it? Surely someone can point
me in the right direction because so many people seems to be experts on this
The Truth. “You shall live by sweat of your own brow.”
If you can find a job.“Now which side is actually living by
God commandments?” Do you know?“If one wants to share
his of excess and be charitable, that is his choice, not his neighbors.”
Agreed, Stop the tax deduction for charity and religion.“All
money from business operation came from a fair exchange with the consumer or
from another provider for a product or service.” The legal sources of
money going into a business operation include only the investors and the
customers. Since the investor expects to recover his investment along with a
profit, that leaves only the customer to supply all the rest. “And while their (there’re) bad businesses and business man there
are also bad consumers and bad workers. That is price we pay for Freedom and
agency.” Then why do we heap so much praise on soldiers?“But it is much much better than living under tyrannical government
control, having big government control every aspect of our lives.” The
most tyrannical government in your life is your church.Etc. Etc.
"...What the GOP needs to do is to find an "ice cream
cone"...".What the gop needs to do is to find an alternative
to voter suppresion, to the war on women, to the war on the 47%, to the war on
Americans who don't look like them...for starters.
@Christian 24-7"Uh, keeping what you have earned is not a freebie, it
is keeping what you have earned, an earnbie. "It is a freebie
when the gov't getting less revenue means larger deficits for future
generations. I'd agree with you if the budget were balanced. @Mike RichardsWell then it's a good thing our deficit
isn't 1.6 trillion; it was 1.1 trillion the most recent year. The annual
deficit has actually decreased since 2009.
Isn't it interesting to scroll through posts at DN and see how many more
the so-called "liberal" posts garner than those awarded to the
"conservative" side.Could it be that most people out there
are actually able to see which ones are most sensible and not hateful?
Oh my word J Thompson let's look at history..in 2008 when Obama said he
would cut the deficit in half what was happening..we were just beginning the
decline into the great recession. The first three quarters in 2008 showed a gdp
decline of 2%, not good but not tragic. One could have cut the deficit in
half..then the third quarter of 2008..gdp declined 9%..that's right 9% and
when did we figure this out..second quarter of 2009. So if you're going to
quote history let's at least be accurate. Setting the recession policies
aside what was Obamas deficit by policy alone..250billion. So year let's
look at history..let's just look at it correctly.
Businesses are making record profits they couldn't have without the bloated
military controlling oil supplies, shipping routes and piracy. They
couldn't make those profits without the fee free roads we have and police
to keep thieves from stealing their shipments.What right do they
have to use such commons and then decide they don't need to include that in
the their own business costs? They already get away with not including
environmental costs on their products. Why should I subsidize a
business I may not use? That's robbery. Payroll taxes should never be used
to supply free infrastructure to business.The only "fair"
market is one where all the costs of a product are included IN the final cost of
the product. Then the market will decide. Carbon taxes and fair
taxes on businesses ARE THE FREE MARKET. There were never payroll labor taxes
Just like the "ice cream girl", some posters promise that the deficit
will only be $500 billion per year within ten years IF we do exactly as
President Obama demands. How about using history as the true scale against
which we measure what will happen instead of listening to his campaign
promises?In 2008, he promised that he would cut the deficit in half.
What did he do? He added more than $5 TRILLION to the deficit, increasing it
by half in just four years. What plans does he have to reduce spending so that
the deficit will stay under $500 billion per year? None! He plans on spending
MORE! How is he going to pay for that increased spending? He's going to
tax the "rich guy" and put $60 billion more per year in the treasury
(according to the CBO). MORE spending with a revenue increase of only $60
billion will never decrease the deficit INCREASE to less than $1.4 TRILLION per
year.Little girls make promises that they can't pay for. And
failed Presidents make promises that they can't pay for.
You shall live by sweat of your own brow.Now which side is actually
living by God commandments?If one wants to share his of excess and
be charitable, that is his choice, not his neighbors.--@Ultra BobAll money from business operation came from a fair
exchange with the consumer or from another provider for a product or service.If it were not so the business would a fail and properly so.And while their bad businesses and business man there are also bad consumers
and bad workers.That is price we pay for Freedom and agency.But it is much much better than living under tyrannical government
control, having big government control every aspect of our lives.And
is is God's way to teach men morals and principles and what is right and
let men govern themselves.If the government controls your pocket
book, there can be NO charity, and NO goodness, NO reward because
the converse is not possible.Just a world of power and force and
dependence and entitlement.The kind of world you are looking for
just does NOT exist without agency and a moral people.
Businesses get money by selling a product or service someone uses. If more
people use it than the business rightfully gets more money. You can afford it
we all pay for higher taxes in the form of added on costs. What right do people
have to envy someone who earns his money.
Mr. Richards you've finally out done yourself.."Obama cannot fund his
dream society where every able bodied people live off the sweat of some
"rich guy". He cannot fund a $1.6 TRILLION per year deficit by raising
$60 BILLION by taxing that "rich guy". My, my, my. This is exactly why
the conservative movement is getting trounced nationally. You do nicely in
little pockets like South Jordan in house elections but this hate filled
departure from reality is simply going to continue to marganalize your opinions
nationally. By the way the deficit is projected to be at around 500 bilion
annually by 2015 and it has in fact gone down all of the past four years.
Bob,We see things from opposite viewpoints. You stated, "People
are not wanting to take money from businessmen, they want to stop the excess of
money given to businessmen."Whose money are we talking about?
Government cannot "give" anything to anyone without first
"taking" it from someone else. Who pays more than 80% of all taxes?
Businesses and businessmen. Who pays less than 10% of all taxes? People who
either have no job, or who receive government benefit payments. If we excluded
all the people on Social Security who paid for their "pension" all of
their working years, how many others would still be on the welfare list?
Personally, I don't know. It doesn't matter, because we, the people,
have never authorized the Federal Government to pay them anything. Any payment
that they receive MUST come from other levels of government or from concerned
individuals. The Constitution does not allow payments of any kind for private
welfare, only for the general welfare and then only for those duties authorized
and enumerated in Article 1, Section 8.Working people can buy stock
(ownership) in a business - but then they would have nothing to complain about.
Mike. There is no magic number. Governments are created to do the
will of the people. Even if they sometimes have to riot and rebel to get the
point across. People are not wanting to take money from businessmen,
they want to stop the excess of money given to businessmen. The proper balance
between management and workers has been upset and when it gets bad enough the
people will change their government. The upset is mainly due to
technology but the scurrilous, mean and unfair tactics used by businessmen to
demean and handicap working people are a big factor. All the
money from a business operation is derived from the consumers who are mainly
working people. Even if they sometimes give some back, the amount given back to
the community is not enough.
A group of fishermen decided that a boat would make for greater fishing
enjoyment. They agreed to pool their resources and buy a boat with the notion
of equal sharing of it’s cost, it’s maintenance and it’s use.
A different group of fishermen having the same thoughts, met in a
similar meeting. One of the men was a boat dealer who sold boats. He convinced
the others that they should simply rent a boat from him and let him handle all
the maintenance and costs. Assuming similar boats, which set of
fishermen got the most for their money. The fallacy of Paul’s
story is the untold truth about what happed after the little girl failed to
prove up on her promise. The little girl lost all her friends.
What is the magic number? At what point would liberals admit that the
government cannot fix society? At what point would they admit that taking money
from businessmen is the fastest and surest way to add people to the welfare
rolls? At what point would they admit that ignoring the Constitution does not
make for a stronger more self-reliant society?Yes, there will never
be a "free ice cream cone". Someone has to pay for it. If every
politician had to raise capital to fund his programs BEFORE he took office, he
would be doing the same thing that every businessman has to do. No matter how
wild the dream, a businessman has to raise the money BEFORE he puts that dream
into action. Obama cannot fund his dream society where every able
bodied people live off the sweat of some "rich guy". He cannot fund a
$1.6 TRILLION per year deficit by raising $60 BILLION by taxing that "rich
guy".Our education system has failed us. It has turned out a
generation of people who can't do the simple math required to know that
Obama's ideas are unworkable.
atl134 says:By voting for Obama I gave up the "20% across the board
tax cut" freebie Romney offered.Uh, keeping what you have earned
is not a freebie, it is keeping what you have earned, an earnbie. I
would love to see more people have the opportunity to get earnbies.
@ECR:"Miss Piggie... "We are all responsible for making our
government work and no one should shirk that responsibility."Tell that to the folk who pay no federal (and likely no state) income tax."Some have experienced good fortune and can better afford to make a
greater contribution."Where you getting that? It's not in
the Constitution. In fact, the Constitution requires equal treatment under the
law... including tax law.'"There will not be any abortion
on demand paid for by the ACA."True. Abortions on demand will
be paid for by health insurance providers... which get their money from policy
holders... who are required to buy the insurance by ACA."And
doesn't it stand to reason that if people have access to birth control
there will be fewer abortions desired?"There will certainly be
fewer kids."And for your information, the president proposed
changes to Social Security and Medicare as part of the Grand Bargain..."True. His plan will take $600 billion from Medicare to pay for
Obamacare."Merry Christmas!"How can it be? The
world ended yesterday.
I love the way all the liberals whine about this story being a used story, and
then the continue to spout all the used rhetoric they have spouted for years.
Spend spend spend, we are the USofA. We will never go broke. Yeah
right. Greece here we come.
By voting for Obama I gave up the "20% across the board tax cut" freebie
@ECR:"We are going to have to raise taxes to help get things back in
order."Obama doesn't want higher taxes to 'get things
back in order.' He wants higher taxes to grow the government. He's a
socialist. He thinks the government should control everything... every aspect of
human existence. He gets it from his Kenyan ancestry."I'm
not sure those who make just enough to get by should or could pay more but I am
willing to do my part."Those people who just get by pay no
income tax at all. That's the fallacy in the system. Everyone should pay
some income tax."I also said that we should responsibly cut
government spending where it is possible..."Tell that to Obama.
He wants his tax increases first... then maybe he'll think about cuts."Why do we need an Air Force base in Utah 700 miles from the
coastline or the north and south border of the nation?"Good
point... and why do we need a Army base in Fairbanks, Alaska? It should be
located on the US/Mexican border, where the invasion is taking place.
Miss Piggie - Like so many of your friends form the conservative wing of the
United States, I see you have adopted that same attitude "if you want to fix
things so bad then go ahead and do your part but leave me out of it." We
are all responsible for making our government work and no one should shirk that
responsibility. Some have experienced good fortune and can better afford to
make a greater contribution. I am willing to do that. Why aren't you?Your assertions about the Affordable Care Act are the usual uninformed
hyperbole that we've heard for four years. There will not be any abortion
on demand paid for by the ACA. And doesn't it stand to reason that if
people have access to birth control there will be fewer abortions desired?
It's a simple cause and effect formula but I know that is a bit complicated
for those who choose to believe false statement without checking them out for
themselves.And for your information, the president proposed changes
to Social Security and Medicare as part of the Grand Bargain clear last year but
John Bohner and the Republicans rejected it. Merry Christmas!
@ECR:"There are no Democratic freebies."You
ain't been paying attention have you, ECR...? For one thing, Obama and his
Democrat friends wanna hand out free healthcare to the poor... including birth
control pills and abortion on demand."There is no doubt that
many things can and should be cut from government where possible but it is
equally true that we all need to step up and pay for the reckless spending of
the past, on both sides of the aisle."Obama's willing to
make spending cuts, alright. But he wants his tax increases now. Then maybe
later on he'll address the cuts. Sure."I don't make
anywhere near the $200K limit the president has established for having taxes
raised but I would gladly pay more if it meant getting our financial house in
order."If you're so willing, all you need do is get your
checkbook out and write a check payable to the IRS. And please accept my thanks
in advance for your generosity.
Mountainman - What I did say was that we are all going to have to pay for the
government that we have. Since you have trouble interpreting that message
I'll say it more clearly. We are going to have to raise taxes to help get
things back in order. Although the president is not proposing it, I am saying,
and I did say, I would be willing to pay more in taxes even though I do not make
the kind of income the president has set as the limit. I'm not sure those
who make just enough to get by should or could pay more but I am willing to do
my part. I also said that we should responsibly cut government spending where
it is possible and where it won't hurt the most vulnerable. That is
exactly what the president has said and he never, ever suggested we should just
cut the military. But I am saying why shouldn't cut some of the military.
Why do we need an Air Force base in Utah 700 miles from the coastline or the
north and south border of the nation? I hope that statement is definitive
enough for you.
@Roland Kayser:"The three groups that receive the most government
funding are the elderly, the rural, and the southern."You forgot
the fourth and largest group... Democrats."As for paying for it,
compare Medicare Part D and Obamaacare. Obamacare is fully funded, while there
is absolutely no funding mechanism for Medicare Part D."Yeah,
right. Obama care is fully funded alright... with increased taxes."Every penny of spending for the program has gone on the national credit
card."Speaking of which, Obama has increased the national credit
card debt by more than all presidents put together... from George Washington
on.@ECR:"If the DN wants to print nonsensical letters at
least they should insist on originality."The truth is worth
repeating over and over. This truth exposes the Democrats as 'tax the rich
and spend.' It also exposes the Republican as well... the guys who
don't know how to get elected with promises of give-aways, amnesty, etc."I wonder if the author would explain how Republicans are showing
'fiscal and social responsibility' with their current position on
taxes."The Republicans are showing 'economic'
responsibility... to keep from going over the fiscal cliff.
LDS liberal; Your version would be much more accurate if you substituted a
playground bully the federal government), for taking money by force away from
those who earned it and then gets angry when the good kids don't have any
more money to steal!
The metaphor is completely wrong.It's more like this --- 2 kids are running for office.One says we need to takecare
of ALL the kids in class, Everyone deserves healthcare in order to get
good grades, We all need to eat and sleep and help each other.School
needs to be a good place for everybody.The other says --We
can's afford that!We need to take from those struggling or failing
and give those getting A's.Only A-kids get to go to recess. They are Teacher's pets, and get 1st choice for everything.The
A-kids get every privledge because they earned it - even if they CHEATED.The A-kids can bully and take anything they want from others and pass it
around to THEIR friends on the playground, they don't have to share.A-kids can start fights, and bully other kids and never get punished.Mommy and Daddy's sweet little boo-bah-doo gets preferential treatment,
the rest of the kids in class are a bunch of loosers anyway!Here little Johnny - have an ice cream cone.Any flavor you want, and
size you want.Care for sprinkles?
ECR. All you did was bloviate! Again, I ask you, who is going to pay for all the
entitlements? I guess I missed the specifics on where Obama is willing cut any
spending, except perhaps the military. All I have ever heard him say, is more
taxes, more taxes, more spending. In the meantime our national debt is over $16
trillion with no end to the explosion. That is really our current situation and
Obama has no real answers. At least the Republicans has been in favor of serious
spending cut, but Obama says NO! Again, I ask you, who is going to pay for all
"The GOP cares solely and exclusively about its rich contributors. The party
has built a whole catechism on the protection and further enrichment of
America's plutocracy. Their caterwauling about deficit and debt is so much
eyewash to con the public. Whatever else President Obama has accomplished (and
many of his purported accomplishments are highly suspect), his $4-trillion
deficit reduction package did perform the useful service of smoking out
Republican hypocrisy. The GOP refused, because it could not abide so much as a
one-tenth of one percent increase on the tax rates of the Walton family or the
Koch brothers, much less a repeal of the carried interest rule that permits
billionaire hedge fund managers to pay income tax at a lower effective rate than
cops or nurses. Republicans finally settled on a deal that had far less deficit
reduction - and even less spending reduction! - than Obama's offer, because
of their iron resolution to protect at all costs our society's
overclass.("Good-bye to All That the Confessions of a Gop Operative
Who left the Cult" by Mike Lofgren)
Mountainman - There are no Democratic freebies. As many have pointed out, all
Americans have benefited from and are responsible for the government programs
that now must be paid for. There is no doubt that many things can and should be
cut from government where possible but it is equally true that we all need to
step up and pay for the reckless spending of the past, on both sides of the
aisle. I don't make anywhere near the $200K limit the president has
established for having taxes raised but I would gladly pay more if it meant
getting our financial house in order. For Republicans to completely refuse to
make any effort to pay the bills that are now due (as witnessed this week in
Congress) is not only irresponsible but, in my opinion, it runs counter to the
values of American citizenship. Until we all accept our current situation and
work together to fix it we will continue to have a slow moving economy where the
poorest and most vulnerable in our society will suffer the most.
I find it interesting that all the liberal regulars on here attacked the writer
of the letter instead of answering his most important question: who is going to
pay for all the Democrat freebies?
You all forgot the mention all the freebies garnered by big corporations, Wall
Street, Banks, those who use offshore tax dodging banks, and on and on for an
endless list of GOP supporters.They don't just get ice cream
cones. They get the entire factory.
What the GOP has offered and continues to offer is anything but fiscal and
social responsibility.You and your ilk have no room to criticize
others for being ill-informed or merely wanting handouts. If you really believe
that responsibility is what your party still stands for then I suggest you get
out of your cave and become informed. Please study history. Especially the
records of the last 3 GOP Presidents.
Is the DNews so short on letters that it can't come up with something
better than this ridiculous ice cream cone analogy and a diatribe about the
"Chicago political machine"?
And Republicans want the rest of us to get by with less so the wealthy can get
I don't need to say anything, it's already been said. Good job guys.
"What the GOP needs to do is to find an "ice cream cone" that the
Democrats don't already have covered."That's hard to
read but it was Bush that sent out $400 "stimulus" checks to everyone,
started 2 wars and reduced your taxes at the same time. He also gave out free
drugs with medicare part d.Of course the republicans shouted that
Obama was taking stuff away from medicare and there would be less free stuff for
seniors as if that were bad. It wasn't true but that was the argument.Then there's the inconvenient truth that the states that have the
most "takers" are republican states. Please secede from the
union, we are smarter now and will definitely not fight to keep you in the USA.
If the DN wants to print nonsensical letters at least they should insist on
originality. This fable is as old as I am (and that's old). I wonder if
the author would explain how Republicans are showing "fiscal and social
responsibility" with their current position on taxes. After Bill Clinton
raised taxes and the nation showed a budget surplus, the CBO calculated that
with similar tax rates and economic growth we could pay off our then $5 trillion
dollar debt within 10 years. But the Republicans didn't want to pay their
debt (the debt of all Americans); they preferred to keep their money (in the
form of tax cuts) instead of doing the responsible thing. And for eight years
during the G.W. Bush Administration, just like in the 12 years of the Reagan
Bush Administration, they spent freely and ran up a debt that nearly destroyed
our nation. Now that the current president has had to deal with lower tax
revenue and despite increasing spending at rate lower than any president since
Eisenhower, he and his party get blamed for our current situation. How is that
being fiscally responsible?
Onion, this ice cream story is a fantasy..the Greece of the western
Hempisphere..that tells you all you need to know about the writer.
The three groups that receive the most government funding are the elderly, the
rural, and the southern. In other words, the GOP's core constituency.
I'd say the Republicans have the free ice cream cone thing down pat. As for
paying for it, compare Medicare Part D and Obamaacare. Obamacare is fully
funded, while there is absolutely no funding mechanism for Medicare Part D.
Every penny of spending for the program has gone on the national credit card.
This ice cream story is a repeat.