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Comments about ‘Principal killed while lunging at Connecticut gunman; names and ages of victims released’

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Published: Saturday, Dec. 15 2012 3:26 p.m. MST

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BrentBot
Salt Lake City, UT

The Framers of our Constitution were correct - only people mature and altruistic enough should be accorded full citizenship - including the right to own guns. Only property owners showed sufficient maturity to be full citizens.

And they would be mature enough to not sell guns to criminals, and keep them locked in a safe place.

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

@ BrentBot: So only people who own property should be allowed to own guns? And this is going to solve gun crimes?

Okaaaay.....

cjb
Bountiful, UT

Re BrentBot

Many of the founders owned slaves.

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Guns are not the problem. In societies where guns are not available, this same thing happens and the perpertrators use knives. (this just happened in China and continually happens there). The problem is that parents are neglecting to properly raise their children.

We're we to get rid of guns this problem will not go away. Criminals would then use knives and also gasoline bombs which would kill even more people.

Hemlock
Salt Lake City, UT

Any attempt to effectively implement mental health rules will be opposed by the ACLU, partly because social science is not able to clearly identify those at risk and act accordingly. Guns? Big problem. Mentally ill? Bigger problem. Add the two and you have Newtown, CT.

1aggie
SALT LAKE CITY, UT

Re:cjb

True. Bad things can happen with or without guns. But the kids in China survived. They are not dead. We have a bad combination in this country of ubiquitous guns and disturbed unstable people. The U.S. rate of firearm death far exceeds every other industrialized country. More guns, less regulation isn't going to solve the problem. Even if the teacher had a gun she didn't have the element of surprise the gunman had. Even highly trained law enforcement officers can kill/hurt innocent bystanders when trying to take down an assailant in the same situation.

ClarkHippo
Tooele, UT

I remember a few years back there was a big push here in Utah to ban all firearms from schools and churches. There was also a legal fight to ban firearms from the University of Utah campus.

Here's my simple question in regard to this. If we ban all firearms from all schools, colleges campuses and churches, how will this law be enforced?

Simply banning something doesn't make the problem go away. Look at drugs like cocaine. It's illegal but does that mean its not a problem?

As for mental health, I'm glad to see this topic has been brought up. However, mental health is a more complicated issue than even firearms.

How do we know someone is mentally ill and capable of committing murder? Few mentally ill people do such things, but how do we tell the difference between those that might hurt others as opposed to those who would not?

Lot's of important issues to address here.

Moderate
Salt Lake City, UT

"Only property owners showed sufficient maturity to be full citizens."
...and if you inherited property, you also inherited maturity.

Lledrav
West Jordan, UT

I think putting God back in schools and homes would help. Maybe more Bible time in the home and fewer violent video games? Here is another idea, do like Israel does and arm the teachers.
When last did you hear of a multiple-victim shooting taking place on a firearm range, in a police station or at a gun show. You haven’t. A deranged shooter will always opt for a "gun free" zone.

In Israel, teachers and parents who serve as school aids are armed with semi-automatic firearms whenever they are on school grounds. Since they adopted this policy in the 1970s, attacks by gunmen at Israeli schools have become non-existent.
In 2004 Thailand adopted a similar approach to ensure the safety of its schoolchildren.

tabuno
Clearfield, UT

Which guns and how they were used and why so many died may help to determine whether or not society can learn anything about the role of guns in such terrible mass murders. So far, it's still pretty confusing.

Midwest Mom
Soldiers Grove, WI

This tragic young man's mother was the owner of the guns and they didn't protect her. Access to her guns allowed this terrible crime to happen.

Guns kill. It is what they were designed to do.

Bee Careful
Kaysville, UT

Each time a mentally disturbed criminal decides to commit suicide by shooting up a school, mall, theater or other soft target, we hear the same "feel good" argument: Ban guns! Yet there is not a single documented situation where passing a gun ban law has resulted in a lower crime rate. If the principal had been a registered permit holder along with at least a few of the other teachers, there is at least a chance that the scope of this massacre could have been lessened. People who work protecting our children should be required to equip themselves with the means to do so.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Were we to get rid of guns this problem will not go away. Criminals would then use knives . . . ."

No, criminals would still use guns.

There is zero possibility of ridding the country of guns in the hands of bad guys. It simply will not, CANNOT happen.

Liberal and "progressive" politicians can only disarm law-abiding citizens. This case, and too many others like it, show what the result of that would be.

Evidence was the school principal died in an heroic attempt to confront the crazed gunman. She had the guts, but was denied the tools by a deranged liberal campaign over the last 100 years, or so, to assure that in situations like this, bad guys can confidently assume they'll be carrying the only readily available weapons.

The result in this case, and most others like it could have been much different if willing teachers and staff were permitted to carry arms.

In fact, it's quite likely there'd have been no incidents at all if the cowardly perpetrators thought they'd encounter armed opposition.

xscribe
Colorado Springs, CO

Bee Careful and Purcuradorfical: Is that how we now want our schools to be: Every adult armed to the hilt just in case there happens to be an incident such as this one occur. And there would never be the scenario of a perpetrator grabbing a kid and saying, Put down your gun or this child dies. Wonder what a teacher would do in that sitution. It wouldn't take long for all the teachers. Just as you say that every time an incident like this brings out the antigun crowd, so to does it bring out the arm everyone because that will make it better crowd. There is no evidence for either.

iron&clay
RIVERTON, UT

Lt. Paul Lance is a State officer. He stated that there is 'very good evidence' that would link the murderer to a motive.

Another unidentified officer (perhaps federal) tries to say the opposite.

A Book of Mormon prophet,Amulek, upon seeing the murder of little children at the hands of wicked men exclaimed "how can we witness this awful scene". Alma 14:10

He was consoled however by Alma who said that the Lord receiveth the children up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, ..and cry mightily against them at the last day.

iron&clay
RIVERTON, UT

The logistics of gun battles in war time always show a much larger number of injured ratio to the number of killed.

That is why upon hearing of the 26 death without a injured count, I did not believe the report.

Now, that this article reveals that the children were first gunned down and then while they were on the ground the murderer or murderers walked up to their small injured bodies and pumped multiple shots into them to insure that they were dead.

That is also something that I found hard to believe, that that kind of people exist on this planet. Therefore, I doubted the whole thing at first.

Secret works of darkness and murder do exist in this world. The collectivist secret police in England have experimented for years with mind controlling drugs and have been able to have their robot-like people do the unthinkable while in this hypnotic state where their consciences have been muted.

wYo8
Rock Springs, WY

guns do not have minds, hands or legs. they can not even load or fire without the aid of a human being. A firearm can not read to know where they can and can not be taken. Example of the shooting in Oregon ealier this week. The person carrying the weapon read a sign no guns permitted in the Mall. It was mentioned that the school shooter was gothic. That seems to be a common thread not always. I would like to know what this and other killers do to get to this point. Do they sit and play video games, watch certain types of movies, are drugs involved. The persons home life, etc. Seems like as the family has declined and mothers having to work, or more interested in a career than raising their kids. Plus the people who care more about maintaining a women's right to an abortion. Lets not forget the deadbeat dads as well. how does all these things effect an unstable mind of some kid. ITS MORE THAN JUST THE GUN THAT. Where is all the out cry for banning beer and drugs that lead to the killing of innocent.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: " Is that how we now want our schools to be . . . ?"

Yep.

And if this school HAD permitted willing teachers to take appropriate training and arm themselves, not only would this incident have had a happier outcome, there's a good likelihood it would never have occurred. Evil, cowardly murderers would find somewhere else to work their evil.

Somewhere that guarantees, even advertises ready access to unarmed, defenseless victims.

Deniers rage, but, down deep, we all know what our founders knew -- a kinder, gentler America, like freedom, must be won and protected by force of arms.

xscribe
Colorado Springs, CO

Really, that's how you want your child's school to be. How about we just make it a prison atmosphere, where there is no way to get in or out. Seems it would be much easier than arming our teachers.

By the way, you cannot prove by any stretch of the imagination that there would be a "happier outcome" to this type of situation. You even admit that these people would find another place to do their deeds. So, unless we all arm ourselves like the wild west, people will find ways to do this.

Here's another scenario for you however: A teacher is armed with a weapon, or multiple teachers. A, you have no idea how they are going to react in this type of situation, whether they are trained or not. B, when the police show up, just exactly how are they going to know who is the "bad guy"?

We can argue this forever, and I'm not even against guns. Own them myself. But there are major flaws in your logic!

Blue Bolshevik
Salt Lake City, UT

Adam Lanza was a "law abiding citizen" until he used guns to slaughter 26 people, 20 of them children. So where does one draw the line on "law abiding"? After senseless murder? Ban guns!

Blue Bolshevik
Salt Lake City, UT

Wow...

"Deniers rage, but, down deep, we all know what our founders knew -- a kinder, gentler America, like freedom, must be won and protected by force of arms.

Truly one of the most frightening things I have read on these boards. You sir/madame, are a menace.

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