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Attacker opens fire at Conn. school where mother worked; 26 killed, including 20 children

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  • KC Mormon Edgerton, KS
    Dec. 17, 2012 3:47 p.m.

    1aggie said
    " even if you control for poverty levels, more people die from gun homicides in areas with higher rates of gun ownership. And despite what gun advocates say, countries like Israel and Switzerland don’t disprove the point."
    Strange than that this happened in the state with the 4th strictest gun laws! By your logic this then never should have happened. Then again perhaps if we would go after the REAL problem our culture of glorifying violence through music, TV, movies, and games rather than the guns we could really solve the problem.

  • KC Mormon Edgerton, KS
    Dec. 17, 2012 2:41 p.m.

    If we want to stop this it is time for PARENTS to stop trying to be the best friend and be PARENTS. Listen to the music your kids are listening to not just the radio version but the CD version as well. If you can not understand it look it up on line read the words. If you find it offensive do not let it in your house. Turn the TV off or change the Chanel when inappropriate shows come on. If shows or movies have a lot of violence in them TELL your children NO you are not watching that. Do the same with the video games. these games were you go around as a soldier killing people do you know what they were original designed for? After WWI 13% of solders would not pull the trigger the first time training on round targets. WWII this was lowered to 3% by using silhouettes. This was still to high so other virtual methods were developed. These games are the offshoots of those methods developed to make solders more likely to pull the trigger. So before letting your kids play them think about what they were meant to do.

  • Gregg Weber SEATTLE, WA
    Dec. 15, 2012 5:20 p.m.

    There are stories coming out about people who saved some children's lives. Good. How fast did someone come who had the means to stop the killing? We've all heard about the cops being only minutes away and what can happen in a minute. Hopefully they learned from Columbine that those sounds they heard while they were putting on the protctive gear marked the loss of a child. I hoped that when they got in, the shooter could see that he couldn't do more damage and was forced the shooter to have only one exit.

    Now let us steel ourselves. It is the old fight, flight, or freeze option. What would we do in that situation if we were a teacher? What are the possibllities? Hide, block, resist. List all of them. Resist? Effectively? With what?

    Doors that with a push of an office button can not be opened, like watertight doors on ships that almost condemn those behind? No. Especially if there was a fire.

    I hope this is worded to get the comment, and the thoughs approved and seen. Else an unexpressed thought is worth nothing. Especially if it is believed to be truth.

  • LogicInduced Ogden, UT
    Dec. 15, 2012 8:02 a.m.

    Guns/weapons don't kill people, people kill people. OK. Then why can't we purchase our own rocket launchers, or grenades, or nuclear devices even. It isn't the weapon, it is the person. Only blame the person, not society for allowing people to have hand held machine guns or rocket lanchers, et al. Blame the person.........

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 10:42 p.m.

    A survey by researchers at the Harvard University School of Public Health found strong statistical support for the idea that, even if you control for poverty levels, more people die from gun homicides in areas with higher rates of gun ownership. And despite what gun advocates say, countries like Israel and Switzerland don’t disprove the point.

    Scholars Richard Florida and Charlotta Mellander recently studied state-to-state variation in gun homicide levels. They found that “[f]irearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun control legislation.” This is backed up by research on local gun control efforts and cross-border gun violence.

    Congress has passed several laws that cripple the ability for current gun regulations to be enforced the way that they’re supposed to.

  • PA Gardener Towanda, PA
    Dec. 14, 2012 9:45 p.m.

    My prayers go out to the victims and the defenseless and the vulnerable. I also pray for those who have the mindset to maliciously murder others. Our society is losing its moral anchor because many families today are disintegrating, becoming corrupted in the ways of "the world" where "the natural man" takes over. We need a return to traditional values as in putting off the natural man, turning to the "Prince of Peace" and in giving as our gift for Christmas, the gift of obedience to God's law.

    Should we defend ourselves against gun attacks like this? If the secretary at the head office had a gun on hand, if the custodian had a gun on hand, and if each teacher had a concealed weapon on hand, would there have been such a loss of life? I know how I would answer.

  • Ronald Uharriet SWun City, Ca.
    Dec. 14, 2012 9:01 p.m.

    What ever our past thinking, regarding guns, pro or con, just is not working. Something must change now.

    For those that say they will not give up their guns because it is for their own protection, I can understand. Look around in the middle east. Without guns, what protection does one have against their own govenment.

    For those that say, all guns should be collected by the government, I understand. It is easier stopping the crazy person if he only has his hands or a knife to kill with. It is pretty hard to stop a person with a gun unless you yourself is carrying a gun, which in most cases, is not legal.

    Something has to be done before one more life is lost. I don’t know what the answer is.
    I heard there was a town in Arizona where everyone had to wear a loaded gun to enter the city. Zero crime. Would be thieves or killers would no that he/she was outgunned from the start. Every other person in the room would have their guns pointed at the bad guy.

    Government needs to figure something better than that approach. It needs to be top priority.

  • Archie1954 Vancouver, BC
    Dec. 14, 2012 8:54 p.m.

    DN Subscriber you are talking idiocy. Further proliferation of guns is not the answer and you and your friends at the NRA are totally complicit in the deaths of these innocent children. What good does it do to advertise that guns are in teachers' hands when the whole purpose of these insane killers is to get themselves killed while creating endless hurt?

  • UteRB77 Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 8:03 p.m.

    Notice these lunatics are typically always young men. The problem is a lack of strong male role models. Where was this sick kid's father? Boys need fathers that show them how to be men, taking an interest in their lives, provide guidance and discipline, and lead by EXAMPLE. Men have to grow up and learn to be MEN again. There are too many 30 and 40 year old juveniles with kids that haven't a clue. This is the result of decades of allowing government to take over the raising of our kids, and losing the ability to pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. It's a sick and sad commentary on society, that has nothing to do with guns. It's about the gradual breakdown of the family, and weak kneed liberal policies that systematically destroy the fabric of society through futile policies that rob us of our agency and personal responsibility. This tragedy will further push us down a path of government sponsored band aids that mask symptoms, and utterly fail to cure the illness, costing us our lives, liberties, and the pursuit of true happiness.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 7:39 p.m.

    @boxerdog915
    "@atl134 and all others who want guns to disappear from society..."

    Uh... I don't want that, very few people do. Wanting things like mandatory gun safety courses and limits on high-capacity clips does not make guns disappear from society.

    "So, I wish someone would explain to me why these statistics are ignored."

    I would like to know why your so-called stats should even be considered real at all.

    @patriot
    Very few progressives want to ban all guns. We just want tighter gun control laws. Doesn't require a ban on them.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 7:35 p.m.

    "Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year"

    Boxerdog, you are citing a study by Gary Kleck that has been widely used by pro gun groups. It has also been thoroughly debunked as using extremely unsound methodology.

    It is just as bogus as the claim that more people are killed by bats then guns.

  • Mick Murray, Utah
    Dec. 14, 2012 7:28 p.m.

    at134-

    There are several great examples of why we don't make knee jerk reations. One is 9/11. We were mad and upset. More than 90 senators voted to go to war with Iraq. It was a clear majority with the senate vote. George Bush declared war. We went to war. And all the left has done since is complain about it and condem the action. No one ever mentions the majority vote in the senate.
    It is very political to jump on this bandwagon to try an "easy fix" when the real reason is the moral breakdown of society. It is not popular to tell society they have decreased morals, that fathers need to stay in the homes and be fathers, and there is too much violence in hollywood and video games (among many other societal breakdowns). That is where the discussion and fix needs to start.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Dec. 14, 2012 6:29 p.m.

    We need to be talking about mental health care.

    It's just not working to have people that are unstable and just give them a bottle of meds and trust that they will take thier meds all by themselves. THEY"RE UNSTABLE!

    And trust me, ask a Dr, most of us can't be trusted to take our diabetes neds or high blood pressure meds reliably. Why trust people that could be a danger to society?

    This is not a gun issue. We have 600,000,000 plus guns in the country , more than 2 per capita- we can't undo that. This is a mental health issue. A mental health issue that includes a lot of gun nuts that honestly first think of thier guns to solve our problems. Seek help, please.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 6:20 p.m.

    Tragic at the best. My heart goes out to those personally affected. Now hear this the anti gunners are going to be out now especially with who we are saddled with as President. Those that love the 2nd amendment better get ready communism is on its way. Remember 9/11/01 over 3000 people were killed with airplanes. Ban those evil airplanes!!!!

  • merich39 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 6:17 p.m.

    It's a shame the NRA has spent so much money making it so easy for the mentally unstable to obtain guns. One more public massacre sponsored by the NRA. And, predictably, their response will be that this is a result of too few guns in the hands of the untrained, untested, completely unregulated public. It's a shame.

    It is way past time to discuss reasonable gun access controls. Way past time.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Dec. 14, 2012 5:31 p.m.

    DN: This my revised comment. I hope this one doesn't hurt your sensibility.

    @BYR 1:46

    You wrote: Can we NOT have a gun control debate attached to this article?
    NO! , we should debate this, if not now, when?

    You wrote: Good heavens, 27 people are dead, 18 of them children.

    Exactly! That is why we need to talk and debate this issue. Or you just pretend to mourn them for a few hours and then go back to our normal lives?

    We can find crazy people all over the world. THe difference is that our crazies have access to guns.

    As long as the NRA continue oppossing gun control laws and our politicians continue being who they are, we will continue having tragedies like this one.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 5:20 p.m.

    "Yesterday, 22 in china, at an elementary were attacked with a knife."

    Yes, jsf, and not one of those children died.

  • Steve C. Warren WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 5:17 p.m.

    Women are the key to changing America's gun culture. When a young single woman learns that a single guy owns a firearm, she needs to tell him that she thinks guys who feel more secure with a gun are, in effect, girly men (which is often the case).

    Wives need to tell their husbands to get rid of their guns because having a gun around the house dramatically increases the chance that someone in the family will be shot or killed.

  • On the other hand Riverdale, MD
    Dec. 14, 2012 5:09 p.m.

    @cjb and others, the knife-wielding man in China injured 22 children and one adult but killed no one.

    There are two reasons why the debate focuses on guns: because, as Lagomorph's statistics demonstrate, guns are a murderer's weapon of choice, and because guns can be used as murder weapons with less effort and less risk to self than knives, clubs, cars, bombs, swimming pools, etc.

    I'm not opposed to sensible, sane people owning guns, but I'm scared to death of mentally ill people with guns. We need to help these people and heal them to the extent possible, but we need to keep guns out of their hands.

  • boxerdog915 Clearfield, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 5:09 p.m.

    @atl134 and all others who want guns to disappear from society...

    “Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year—or about 6,850 times a day. This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.”

    “As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse”

    “Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year.”

    More info can be found at http://gunowners.org/fs0404.htm

    So, I wish someone would explain to me why these statistics are ignored. Seems to me guns are used more for good than for bad and gun control activists want to take that away??

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 5:08 p.m.

    May I suggest that the NRA has been perhaps the greatest reason why no meaningful, sensible gun measures have even been considered in this nation?

    There are sensible solutions out there -- you say you support finding them. But until the paranoia and insane fear-mongering from people like Wayne LaPierre can be overcome, not much is likely to happen.

    Some of the posts here reflect that madness. What is becoming of America? We spend money on violent entertainment, we argue with one another endlessly. Why?

  • Gramajane OAKLEY, ID
    Dec. 14, 2012 4:55 p.m.

    Some kill others with water, (in bathtubs,) some with gasoline and matches, some with baseball bats, some with explosives- even bombs, some with cars, some with poisons--I think a teaspoon can be a weapon, and bare hands, or a pillow or the very rocks on the ground . 
    --- with some of the above, usually it isn't mass killing- but some do. 
    ---- Isn't the challenge to teach correct principles raising children in loving homes - where they are taught to respect life and are not exposed to games or movies of violent killing as acceptable? 

  • Eliot Santaquin, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 4:49 p.m.

    There are laws prohibiting the sale of firearms to people who lack mental capacity. Yet, there is much that we do not know about this incident, such as where he got the guns and what was his mental capacity. Did he buy the guns? Did he steal them? Did he obtain them illegally? Until we know more facts about the case, so much of what is being said appears to be speculation.

  • annewandering oakley, idaho
    Dec. 14, 2012 4:39 p.m.

    On facebook there is a post going the rounds. Paraphrased it says 'If your first thought on hearing of the shooting was that the blankety blank liberals were going after your guns, your priorities stink".
    Its time to grieve and start thinking of ways to prevent this happening again, not hiding your guns.

  • Steve C. Warren WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 4:39 p.m.

    Some supposedly thoughtful people will say we shouldn't enact gun controls in the heat of the moment. Consider this: A mother and father, after learning that their child died in a car crash and was not wearing a seat belt, both decide silently in the heat of the moment that they and their other children will never fail to buckle up. Maybe the heat of the moment can be a good time to make decisions.

    I'll tell you this. If we wait, in a few weeks another multiple shooting will occur, and the pro-gun crowd will say, "Let's not enact gun controls in the heat of the moment." And, as usual, nothing gets done.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 4:20 p.m.

    This is a truly a sad day and people are arguing about gun control and the second amendment. It is always easy to say if a teacher had a gun that this would of never happened or less kids would have been murdered.

    Instead lets focus on the children that were murdered senselessly by a coward.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Dec. 14, 2012 4:20 p.m.

    Obamacare includes mental health parity to take mental problems seriously again.

    Nobody is going to take your guns! Stop being scared little people. When this happens and all you can think of is your guns you have a problem.

    The police lean to the right and won't take your guns, the national guard leans right and won't take your guns. Army - nope. AirForce -no way. Navy nope, Marines - are not going to take your guns. Liberals can't do it - we are the ones without so many guns. Obama obviously can't take your guns by himself.

    Your fears are irrational and are fanning more irrational fear. Stop it!

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 4:06 p.m.

    It was just reported on the news by the brother of the shooter that the shooter was Autistic or something similar. He first shot his dad then went to the school where his mom was a teacher. If it is true the man was Autistic there has to be better gun sale legislation to prevent the sale to irresponsible people who obviously should be no where near guns.

  • SoCalChris Riverside, CA
    Dec. 14, 2012 3:42 p.m.

    I'm pretty sure just about everyone who believes in God is praying today. We can pray AND talk about the issue.

    We should act before the next Sandy Hook happens, the same way we acted after 9-11 when we armed pilots. Schools should have armed security and/or armed teachers.

    I don't like it either. I miss the days when I could walk onto an airplane or into a courthouse without going through a metal detector but we've adapted for the times -- sadly.

    20 murdered kids must never happen again.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 3:40 p.m.

    I just read in China a man broke into a school, and using a KNIFE killed many children and teachers.

  • Schwa South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 3:15 p.m.

    It should not be easier to buy a Glock than it is to buy Xanax.

  • Truth Machine Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 3:12 p.m.

    Guns are NOT the problem folks!

    Drugs have been outlawed for decades. Murder has been outlawed for centuries.

    Yet,

    Millions of people are drug addicts.

    And thousands of people are murdered every year.

    The old saying that "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" is absolutely true.

    Criminals will always find ways to get guns, no matter how many laws are passed to outlaw guns.

    The only way to prevent this type of senseless violence is to identify and solve the root problems that motivate people to commit such heinous acts.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:53 p.m.

    Ford DeTreese, Lagomorph

    Lest you be tempted to think school shooting are just recent see DN article about history of school shootings in U.S. Lest you think gun elimination and extreme gun control will stop such actions see these in some of the strictest gun control countries
    Canada, October 10, 1902, May 28 1975, October 27 1975, October 1978, December 6 1989, August 24 1992, April 28 1999, September 13 2006, May 23 2007, September 16 2008, September 30 2010.

    Germany June 20 1913, Sweden March 4 1961, Germany June 11 1964, Germany June 3 1983, Finland January 24 1989 Denmark April 5 1994, United Kingdom March 13 1996 March 13, 1996, Netherlands December 7 1999, Germany April 26 2002, Germany July 32003, Netherlands January 2004 Russia September 1 2004, Germany March 7 2005, Germany November 20 2006, Finland November 7 2007, Finland September 23 2008, Germany March 11 2009, Greece April 10 2009, Norway April 28 2009, Hungary November 26 2009, France March 19 2012, Italy May 19 2012

    Israel May 15, 1974, Yemen March 30, 1997, Philippines February 19, 1999, Australia August 3, 1999, Australia October 21, 2002, Australia, October 21, 2002, Thailand June 6, 2003, Argentina September 28, 2004, Lefanon January 25, 2007, India December 12, 2007, Israel March 6, 2008, Azerbaijan April 30, 2009, Brazil April 7, 2011, Australia May 11, 2012

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:45 p.m.

    re:atl134

    the reason that people don't want to start a discussion of gun control alt134 is because it won't BE a discussion at all - it will be to revoke the second amendment outright! The radical progressive left have clearly stated many times all guns should be banned and that is their goal. These people want no part of a rational discussion and sensible gun law legislation - which I support by the way. You can lump Barack Obama into the anti-second amendment crowd as well. I personally think each state should pass it's own gun laws and keep the federal government out of it altogether. What might make sense in New York makes zero sense in Utah or Wyoming.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:42 p.m.

    It won't surprise me in the least if, the next time we have another mass shooting in Utah, the shooter turns out to be one of the government hating, Obama hating people who so frequently post hateful rants about gun control in places like this.

  • starthillnotnelson Kamas/United States, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:43 p.m.

    It really does not matter about statistics or how guns are prohibited. This is tragic. This is the most foolish and idiotic decision really to ever be decided. I see no reason on taking anger out on such young, innocent little children

  • Millsap fan Taylorsville, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:42 p.m.

    We cannot blame guns, we cannot outlaw guns, otherwise this ceases to be America. I do however believe that the obtaining of guns should be stricter, somehow there needs to be access to medical and psychiatric records before one obtains a gun. If a person owns a gun, EVERYTHING should convince the seller that the buyer is mentally responsible.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:35 p.m.

    re:patriot
    "Chicago has virtually banned guns and it's violent crime rate is the highest in its history since that policy was enacted."

    On June 28, 2010, in the case of McDonald v. Chicago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the handgun bans of Chicago and Oak Park to be unconstitutional.

    Homicides in Chicago are up by 38 percent from a year ago, and shootings have increased as well, even as killings have held steady or dropped in New York, Los Angeles and some other cities. As of June 17, 240 people had been killed here this year, mostly in shootings, 66 more deaths than occurred in the same period in 2011.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:24 p.m.

    How Awfull to happen like this. Why, what is wrong in this nation and eveywhere? Now I wondered my wife know any family members might be the victim in CT. This is sickening. So sorry for little ones that they don't deserved. This is sad.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:24 p.m.

    Guns don't kill people. Insane people who should never have access to guns in the first place kill people.
    With guns.
    It's time for gun control. Get over it, it's time.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:24 p.m.

    Good thoughts and prayers for the victim. As far as the gun control discussion goes, the debate was over years ago. The NRA and its advocates won that argument using fear. There are only two types of gun owners, sportsman and cowards.

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:22 p.m.

    Worf...
    Best that your politics be silenced for a time.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:14 p.m.

    re:Ford DeTreese

    Switzerland has mandatory gun training and ownership and violent crime is the lowest ever reported in that particular country since this policy was started. Chicago has virtually banned guns and it's violent crime rate is the highest in its history since that policy was enacted.

    Also - as I recall Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend were NOT killed by a gun owning OJ either. A knife will do the job just as quickly and easily. For that matter someone intent on killing can build a bomb (follow instructions on the internet) that will take out an entire class room or movie theater or work place. The Oklahoma City bombing taught us that sad lesson.

    citizens of this country have the right to protect themselves from evil people intent on killing and banning guns won't stop the desire to kill innocent people.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:14 p.m.

    Thanks to Lagomorph for providing something other than cliches. Surely, there are many ways to kill or injure someone, but the weapon of choice is guns.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:07 p.m.

    Violence rises, as economy declines.

    Coping with the stresses of surviving is difficult.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 2:02 p.m.

    @BYR
    "Can we NOT have a gun control debate attached to this article"

    I'm fine with that, if someone can answer this one question... after every tragedy we're told this isn't the time to have a gun control debate. When I'm told that we should wait to have that debate, is that intended to suggest there actually is a time in the future when we can have this debate (and if so when would that be), or is it just a way to never have the debate since people get killed every day somewhere?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:59 p.m.

    This is the worst of all nightmares of any parent and for that matter any adult employee. I don't ever remember this sort of thing happening when I grew up yet today it is becoming commonplace. The complete DE-sensitivity toward respect for human life in our society is appalling. This is something akin to the actions of the SS in Nazi Germany. I watch TV and what do I see - violent video games advertised and sold as top sellers in the age group 14 and above. Go to the internet and malls and you see these games everywhere - killing killing and more killing. There is no history we can look to and learn from regarding these violent games - I think we are learning on the fly unfortunately. No one knows if this evil nut job was influenced by video games or not but certainly there is a BIG issue in our society that is getting worse regarding the respect for human life and glorifying killing is something that should be legislated out of our society. Wicked world.

  • BYR Woods Cross, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:46 p.m.

    Can we NOT have a gun control debate attached to this article? Good heavens, 27 people are dead, 18 of them children. (yes, I know, some will debate gun control anyway, with only a passing remark on the tragedy.)

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:44 p.m.

    I cannot focus my mind sufficiently to articulate any arguments one way or another about gun control. My heart is broken over the murders of these precious, innocent children and teachers. If I was not experiencing such disabling shock, I would worry about my sense of morality.

    So tragic. So unbelievable. I can hardly bear it.

  • Lagomorph Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:33 p.m.

    Liberal Ted: "Clubs and knives kill more people than guns each year."
    IJ: "more people are killed in the US with baseball bats or cars than guns. Look it up."

    Please provide sources for your claims. I did look it up and found something completely different.

    FBI statistics published online by the Criminal Justice Information Services Division at the Uniform Crime Reports page (Table 20, Murder by state, by types of weapons):

    2010:
    Total murders: 12,996
    Total by firearms: 8,775 (68%)
    Total by knives, other cutting instruments: 1,704
    Total other weapons: 1,772
    Total by hands, fists, etc.: 745

    2011:
    Total murders: 12,664
    Total by firearms: 8,583 (68%)
    Total by knives, other cutting instruments: 1,694
    Total other weapons: 1,659
    Total by hands, fists, etc.: 728

    Firearms account for twice the murders of all other weapons combined.

    Please explain to me how this member of a well regulated militia exercising his uninfringed right to bear arms is helping to secure the freedom of a free state by slaughtering children. Perhaps he saw a budding socialist or government tyrant in one of their faces.

  • John Galt Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:32 p.m.

    atl134
    Salt Lake City, UT
    @DN Subscriber 2
    "
    "(NOTE: In Utah, law abiding people with concealed carry permits are allowed to carry concealed self defense guns in schools. Criminals and crazies should know that...)"

    Yeah, that'll do you a whole lot of good against a suicidal maniac with a bulletproof vest..."

    Then ban bulletproof vests.

  • Fred Vader Oklahoma City, OK
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:31 p.m.

    @Ford DeTreese: And yet, in 2009, in the city of Winnenden, Germany (near Stuttgart) a gunman with a Beretta went into a school and killed 16 people. Perhaps the German police should use a few more bullets per year.

    Gun arguments aside...lots of praise should be given to those teachers who were fast thinking and got the majority of those kids to safety until the police arrived.

  • LVIS Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:28 p.m.

    marxist
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Quote: Re: Open Minded Mormon - "The guns are not the problem..." Right, guns don't kill people, people kill people (oh BTW, with guns). Close quote.

    Glad you understand that guns don't kill people. Cars don't either. Nor baseball bats. Nor explosives. Nor hammers. Nor drugs. Nor...
    Well, you get the idea.

    Guns don't teach violence. People teach violence. That, 'marxist' is the problem at its core.

    It is the culture WE live in. Not any other country. We live in a society that glorifies shooting via Hollywood, video games, etc. You want to change the culture? Change mass media. And change the family.

    As a young man growing up in the sixties, we often carried rifles in gun racks to school. We even road the city bus with our rifles to go the shooting range in the basement of Hayward HS in California. Guess how many school shootings there were? None. In the intervening years, it is not that guns have become the problem--a lack of morals in society has become the problem. But, you go ahead and continue thinking that the solution is simply 'ban guns'. Indeed.

  • rogerdpack Orem, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:27 p.m.

    My condolences to these poor people.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:27 p.m.

    @activ2004
    You're the lunatic side who wants everyone to have guns. You're the side of the psychopaths who support no restrictions at all. You're the ones who cause the US to have homicide rates 5-20 times that of Canada, Spain, Germany, England, even after adjusting for population. Your "rights" kill other people and they deserve to be well regulated, just as the amendment calls for.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:18 p.m.

    Can you spot the difference between the U.S. and China news today?

    "BEIJING -- A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday, police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese schools and kindergartens."

    "A teacher's son clad in black and carrying two handguns rampaged through a Connecticut elementary school Friday, killing 18 small children and seven adults, including his mother, in the nation’s second-worst school massacre, law enforcement officials said."

  • BYR Woods Cross, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:18 p.m.

    Looking at the photos, I cannot help to think of the 18 sets of parents who are crying alone right now.

  • Manny Saint George, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:17 p.m.

    If banning guns from society would actually make us safer, maybe we should think about outlawing Heroin and Meth from our society. Oh wait, we did make these drugs illegal a long, long time ago. That must be why these drugs can be found in anytown USA and in ALL of our schools. So I guess it would be different if we made guns illegal to own. I'm sure there wouldn't be any guns to found for people to use then. Yea right.

    This is still a very tragic event that a troubled mind decided to use guns to kill people. I just don't want those of us who are law abiding guns owners made to feel guilty or responsible for the actions of these crazy people.

  • BYU Track Star Los Angeles, CA
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:15 p.m.

    The shooter took out his Mom, who was a teacher at the school, during the rampage

    [Updated at 3:09 p.m. ET] The suspect's mother was shot and killed at the school, according to source close to the investigation. She was a teacher there.

    And we now know that Ryan Lanza, the suspected gunman, was 24.

    [Updated at 3:01 p.m. ET] The principal and guidance counselor at Sandy Hook Elementary School were both killed during the shooting, according to a witness that spoke to CNN.

  • BYR Woods Cross, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:11 p.m.

    We have got to find a way. And arguing over gun control will not solve this. We have to find a way to reach the hearts of our children before they grow up as killers.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:10 p.m.

    A few facts people need to be aware of if you want to have a rational discussion on the matter:

    1. Mass attacks, including school attacks, have always happened. The first one in the U.S. happened in 1796.
    2. The deadliest school attack in U.S. history occurred in Michigan almost 100 years ago.
    3. Contrary to what the Deseret News is reporting, this is NOT the 2nd-deadliest school attack in U.S. history. This is 3rd or 4th (depending on what numbers you used).
    4. The number of school attacks, as a percentage of the U.S. population, hasn't changed in 200 years. You're just hearing about it more now because the country has grown (more schools now) and we have 24/7 news.
    5. As the population continues to grow, you can expect to see school shootings continue to grow proportionally.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:09 p.m.

    @DN Subscriber 2
    "
    (NOTE: In Utah, law abiding people with concealed carry permits are allowed to carry concealed self defense guns in schools. Criminals and crazies should know that...)"

    Yeah, that'll do you a whole lot of good against a suicidal maniac with a bulletproof vest...

  • activ2004 Clearfield, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 1:05 p.m.

    I am going back a few years or perhaps centuries when evil people used stones to kill people. A time when there was not even the thought of "semi-automatic" weapons. I am sure a few progressive political leaders, intellectual thinkers, media propagandists would have loved to have had semi-automatic rock slings to conquer and divide there subjects.

    This is all about control and power which in the words of the current political quasi-leader "it is simply a case of workplace violence".

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:56 p.m.

    @Ford DeTreese

    The gun issue is so emotionally charged, it is difficult to have a logical discussion about it, no matter what side you're speaking to. But having said that, I am willing to listen to any logical argument about how we can make guns less of a problem.

    Between the shootings this year in Colorado, Oregon and now Connecticut, along with numerous other gun related murders, we've got to do something.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:54 p.m.

    Is simply declaring that more guns will make situatios like these the answer, or do we need to be looking in other directions for the solution?

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:51 p.m.

    When these kinds of horrible crimes happen, I wish the media would have a policy of not showing the perpetrator's picture, perhaps not even revealing his name. The only pictures that should be shown are those of the victims. Sick, desperate, immature people who commit these types of crimes crave notoriety. Why grant his wishes?

  • Claudio Springville, Ut
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:31 p.m.

    Children and their mentors are dead. It did not occur, as suggested by DN Subscriber, because other people lacked guns, it did not occur, as suggested by Anti Bush-Obama, because politicians want to start taking guns away from others, and it was not, as far too many have suggested through social media, because the public education system is unsafe. It happened because a man decided to go to the school and kill others. That's the only cause to this tragedy.

    There are millions of children in public schools. Realistically, a child is more likely to die at home as a result of parental neglect or parental abuse than by a gunman at school. That does not diminish the real tragedy of this event, but it should quiet the frivolous statements by those looking to stand on their political soapbox.

    You want to stop this? Stop hating others, stop belittling others, stop bullying others, and stop using these comment boards to degrade and defame and figuratively shout at others for having different opinions. Learn to be civil, learn to be tolerant, learn to love one another; something we all should remember during this Christmas season.

  • NedGrimley Brigham City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:31 p.m.

    "The pharmaceutical companies have done much to help manage mental illness with medication."

    And much to exacerbate the problem by pushing more and more medication on people.

    "Ask your doctor if drugs will work for you!"

  • IJ Hyrum, Ut
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:28 p.m.

    Marxist -

    Re: Open Minded Mormon - "The guns are not the problem..." Right, guns don't kill people, people kill people (oh BTW, with guns).

    BTW - more people are killed in the US with baseball bats or cars than guns. Look it up. I don't supopose you'd be in favor of banning bats or cars, would you?

    Its not about guns people - its about them trying to get control us; just ask Mr. Hitler.

    If people are going to kill they will kill; method doesn't matter.

    My heart and prayer will be with those in Conn.

  • Sasha Pachev Provo, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:25 p.m.

    How is it that the crime statistics show that we have less and less violent crime, yet mass shootings reported in the media appear to be on the rise? Something just does not add up.

  • SoCalChris Riverside, CA
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:22 p.m.

    We don't have the luxury of waiting for the next horrendous shooting to discuss this issue.

    Evil people will get a hold of guns. Period. Teachers should start carrying concealed weapons and so should decent, law-abiding, trained citizens.

    I hate to see us go back to the Wild West, but I don't see any other solution. We can't continue to be sitting ducks for these nihilistic, narcissistic monsters.

  • Ford DeTreese Provo, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:19 p.m.

    I've lived in Germany. Pretty safe place by all standards. Strict gun laws. In 2011, the German police used 85 bullets. Total. For. The. Entire. Year. In. The. Whole. Country. When will we figure out that in the 1780s America was a different place than it is now? The Constitution needs some serious renovation. Apologies to Mike Richards for speaking so frankly about reality.

  • Seek to understand Sandy, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:17 p.m.

    As long as we refuse to commit to institutions individuals with mental illness we will continue to see this happen. The pharmaceutical companies have done much to help manage mental illness with medication. However, there are many, many cases where patients refuse to consistently take their medication, or where the medication actually causes homicidal and suicidal acts, and many more patients need to be institutionalized.

    We need to change laws back to an allowance of mental illness commitments. We have had several murders in Utah in the past 2 months by mentally ill people who have killed their family members (usually mothers, dads, spouses and grandparents who they live with). These poor families are left with no where to turn for their own safety. We are all at risk. We need new laws and new facilities for the mentally ill, and taxpayers are going to have to fund it. It is that or be subject to this type of tragedy happening to our children and ourselves.

  • Bored to the point of THIS! Ogden, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:05 p.m.

    It's a sad day for our Country. Sad for many reasons... My thought's and prayers go out to the families involved in this tragic event. It's sad people find themselves in such misery to commit such acts. I wish we could find a way to help them before they resort to such evil.

    As far as the "gun talk", both sides, we always see after these events... I find that discussion sad too... you people, both sides of the arguement, need to get over yourselves. Why do you feel tragic events, such as this, are your forum? Really...?

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 12:04 p.m.

    Marxist not just with guns, Yesterday, 22 in china, at an elementary were attacked with a knife. The worst U.S. school massacre was in 1927 when a school board member set off three bombs killing 48 students. This is not an issue with what but why.

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:55 a.m.

    A mall in Oregon, a school in Connecticut......

    We better soon identify and treat mental illness. Getting hollywood to back off the glamor of killing should be considered, too, but won't be. (And arming everyone isn't the answer, either.)

    Many, many innocent victims. Sympathy to each person and family affected. This community will suffer the effects of this day for decades. I wish them well.

  • War_grunt82 las vegas, NV
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:54 a.m.

    Re:Marist yes guns were used but if there weren't guns it would be something else like aresen, explosives, chemicals,and so on there are thousands of ways to take a life and if someone has the drive and the want they will find a means
    still this is very sad my heart goes to the families.

  • Chachi Charlottesville, VA
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:51 a.m.

    It's useless to respond by condemning the attacker. Instead, we need to ask why there are so many such people. What is it about life in our society that creates so many deranged shooters?

    I suggest that one problem is a sense of being abandoned. Often, shooters turn out to be people who fell through the cracks; who lacked a sense of belonging in society. They feel ignored, so they do something heinous to ensure that the world pays attention to them.

    Why is this problem so common? I think it correlates with the decline of community, broadly speaking--such as close-knit neighborhoods and churches. Certainly mental health and other factors play a role, but those have always been with us. The problems turn deadly when the emotionally disturbed lack a support network.

    We don't know much about the shooter yet. I'll see whether my theory is supported in this case, too.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:49 a.m.

    They are coming for the guns. This administration wants to start a civil war or race war.

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:48 a.m.

    Clubs and knives kill more people than guns each year. Should we have background checks and remove every club and knife in the country along with guns? I wonder if this person used marijuana before. Then we can pin marijuana causes people to shoot other people....

    Since the begining of time, mankind has always found a way to kill each other. Take away the gun, they'll move to explosives, take that away they'll steal a truck and run over people, take that away they'll used rocks, ropes, nails, poisons, illegal weapons etc.

    Maybe instead of working on symptoms, let's focus on the illness.

  • Mash76 Provo, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:47 a.m.

    First of all this is really sick, but if those planning on committing the crime knew others were armed in most cases the crime would not be committed. For Marist, killings are committed more with hands, bats, knives, chains, cars, etc. Do ban everything, if so vehicles should be the first to go.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:33 a.m.

    Time for door to door gun confinscation. This I feel is all the leverage they need to come for our guns. Civil war is going to be declared.

  • BYU Track Star Los Angeles, CA
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:27 a.m.

    At this point 1020 am PST, the authorities aren't releasing the name of the Shooter. The news media reported that the Principal and the School Shrink were amoung the dead. First it was 3 dead, then ten, then 20 now 28 and many children. Yikes !!.

  • ClarkHippo Tooele, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:27 a.m.

    What on earth is going on here? Who are these animals that keep killing innocent people? It's truly frightening to see the absolute war zone that our nation has become.

    Movie theaters, local congressional meetings and now elementary schools?

    And I don't care what side of the gun debate you're on, all of us must agree that this blood bath has got to end.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:22 a.m.

    Re: Open Minded Mormon - "The guns are not the problem..." Right, guns don't kill people, people kill people (oh BTW, with guns).

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:10 a.m.

    Let's hope the next generation can get some kind of hold on this.
    Years ago there were numerous hospitals (Charter Canyon Hospitals was one group...we medical professionals did rotations there). These hospitals, throughout the country specialized in working with mentally ill individuals. Suddenly funding from insurance companies and other sources vanished and these hospitals disappeared.
    The entertainment industry glamorizes weapons in all aspects of media. Who will change this?
    The emotionally disturbed, mentally ill, those starving for attention, and those fascinated with the macho gun culture will continue to cause horror, death and destruction til something changes.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:03 a.m.

    The guns are not the problem,
    The meds are.

  • TOO Sanpete, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 11:01 a.m.

    This is the sickest thing I have read in a long time. What would possess a person to do a rampage--especially on harmless children? This is awful. I hope the families can get through this horrific ordeal.

  • DN Subscriber 2 SLC, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 9:37 a.m.

    Impossible! Guns are banned in schools!

    Or, maybe criminals ignore laws and do whatever they want, no matter how heinous or irrational. But, the law abiding victims are dead because they were denied access to legal self defense tools.

    (NOTE: In Utah, law abiding people with concealed carry permits are allowed to carry concealed self defense guns in schools. Criminals and crazies should know that...)