Comments about ‘Letter: Compromise? Conservative Republicans compromised too much with Democrats’

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Published: Wednesday, Dec. 12 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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Roland Kayser
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I'll take this rant seriously when a Republican proposes a budget that spends only 15% of GDP, which is what taxes currently bring in. Till then, it's just blowing smoke.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

Hate to break it to you Kim, but you have fallen into the rut of thinking that the GOP is not guilty of overspending. Granted, so are the Dems.

But, the GOP's thirst for unfunded Wars and lower taxes play a huge part of the problem.

According to the very conservative Cato Institute (started by Charles Koch)

"President Bush has presided over the largest overall increase in inflation-adjusted federal spending since Lyndon B. Johnson. Even after excluding spending on defense and homeland security

Total government spending grew by 33 percent during Bushs first term."

And all this with a GOP controlled house and senate.

I hate to break it to you, but we are our problems are not caused by the GOP compromising with the big spending Dems.

They are quite capable of overspending (including people like Paul Ryan) as the best of the Dems.

History has shown that.

Emajor
Ogden, UT

Oh, good grief, Kim. You apparently don't want to live in a democratic republic. You want to live in a totalitarian dictatorship where a Christian social & fiscal conservative controls everything and you never have to deal with opposing viewpoints. No wonder there has been talk of secession from your side. If there was a nice blank spot on the map you could all run off to and form your own walled-off insular nation of laissez-faire theocrats, I'd say go for it. But there isn't, so you're stuck living in a nation with people of different opinions. Get used to it.

The rest of your letter includes nanny state blather, regurgitations on liberal media boogeymen, and starry-eyed mythology about our nation's origins. Those are tired old talking points typical of a voter who feels disenfranchised after losing an election. Nothing substantive or remotely relevant there.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

If you compromise your principles too much, you lose your soul, your morality, your purpose! That's how liberals become liberals-no principles. Everything is ok! There is no right or wrong and everything is relative! Only your FEELINGS matter. Sound familiar?

Mike in Sandy
Sandy, UT

I feel sorry for those who believe this nonsense.
Hey Kim....your guy Bush is not a democrat, and he nearly sank us all.

The next time the GOP reaches across the aisle to work with the Dems on ANYTHING will be the first.

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

As Emajor said mountainman..you apparently don't want to live in a democratic republic..and I would add reality. Compromise happens not because you lose your principles but because you've lost your power/influence. Compromise simply means you get what you can when you can.

You think you're going to lose your soul if you comprimise with a liberal...no..what you're going to lose is elections and any further opportunity to influence political outcomes. Whine all you want but this country (out of neccessity) is becoming both socially and politically center left. Center left means libertarian on social issues, more keynesian than austrian on economic issues, and Hamiltonian in their view of the role of government is society.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

@ pragmatistferlife. All I am saying is there are things all honorable people will not negotiate; their values, their freedom, their principles and their sacred honor. These things we will not surrender. If we do, what have we become? To some these things are just "words". To others, they are the standards by which we conduct our lives.
Merry Christmas to you and yours!

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Mountanman,

Your point about principles is absolutely true. But this is not about whether we are loyal to our families, the gospel, or even our nation.

Our current situation is about political decisions. There is nothing intrinsically moral or immoral about this level of taxation or that level of spending. High spending in times of war may be quite moral but less so in times of peace. When facing large debts, cutting spending that we would normally not want to cut and raising taxes to levels we do not like, may also be quite moral.

My point is simply that there is no particular rate of taxation or spending that is moral or immoral. The morality comes into play when considering what we can afford and how these decisions affect future generations.

The reason compromise is so important is because if we do not have some, NOTHING will get done. You need votes to move legislation. Period. And, if we do nothing, the nation will continue on an unsustainable course. In my book, that would be immoral.

For our politicians on both sides, I think much of this is more about power and influence than morality or honor.

ECR
Burke, VA

"righteous principles...fiscal conservatism and the free enterprise system"

I just love it when people lump these terms together as if conservatism and capitalism were somehow ordained of God. The fact is that there are many people living in a variety of monetary and government systems throughout the world who are living righteous lives. In fact the dominant religion of Utah promoted the United Order at one time, where each received according to his needs, but it was abandoned because people were not "righteous" enough to live it.

Until one side can prove the that their platform is te absolute perfect one for everyone to live by, compromise is the only way for us to progress. Dictatorship has never been a viable alternative.

Hank Pym
SLC, UT

re: Mountanman 7:28 a.m. Dec. 12

Blindly following an absolute, carved in stone, w/ no deviation plan. Gee! Where have we heard that before and how did it work out?

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

Hank. Honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. Who has done that? But there are absolutes in the world, its called truth; things as they really are, as they always have been and as they always will be.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Mike Lofgren, was a Republican aide and Congresssional staffer for nearly 30 yrs, the last 16, as an analyst on the House and Senate Budget Committees. Upon retiring he wrote a scathing critque of his own party, stating:

"I could see the Republican Party would use the debt limit vote, an otherwise routine legislative procedure, used 87 times since World War II, to concoct an entirely artificial fiscal crisis, to get what they wanted, by literally holding the US and global economies hostages.

... the Republican Party is becoming less and less like a traditional political party in a representative democracy and becoming more like an apocalyptic cult, or one of the intensely ideological authoritarian parties of 20th century Europe.

Far from being a rarity, virtually every bill, every nominee for Senate confirmation and every routine procedural motion is now subject to a Republican filibuster. ..It is no wonder that Washington is gridlocked: legislating has now become war minus the shooting, something one could have observed 80 years ago in the Reichstag of the Weimar Republic. As Hannah Arendt observed, a disciplined minority of totalitarians can use the instruments of democratic government to undermine democracy itself."

one old man
Ogden, UT

Yes, mountainman, there is a thing called truth.

But it is very, very frequently tossed aside by you and other posters here. Here is one example from a few days ago in which one of our frequent posters slips and allows the truth to come out"

"procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT
4:38 p.m. Dec. 9, 2012
Re: "Procura: With views like yours . . . ."
My views are completely irrelevant to facts."

That tells it all. So I submit respectfully the question, if someone feels facts are irrelevant, is that truth?

Wonder
Provo, UT

@Mountanman -- And so I infer that you think that a top tax rate of 35% is one of those absolutes, the truth, something that can never be compromised on. This is what we're talking about compromising on. Not murder.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Mountanman
Hayden, ID
@ pragmatistferlife. All I am saying is there are things all honorable people will not negotiate; their values, their freedom, their principles and their sacred honor.

============

Mountaman,
Get off you moral High-Horse.

You whine higher taxes on the upper 1% to help pay for Bush's 2 un-funded wars,
about yet supported the same goon who actully DID strip away FREEDOM - and introduced America to Ghestapo citizen spying, and ven maockingly sugar coated calling it the ficticous "Patriot Act".

..and you bought it hook, line and sinker.

Your sense of honor means nothing,
becuase you don't even know what Freedom means.

Freedom to you is right near and dear to your keester - it's only your wallet.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

I would like to know what exactly conservatives compromised on. Remember now, we were already trillions in debt when Obama took office. So I don't want to hear anything about the ACA.

Did Democrats want Medicare part D?
Did Democrats push for these tax cuts?
Did Democrats desire 2 unfunded wars?
Were Democrats in the White House when TARP was passed?
Were Democrats in control of Congress and the White House when Clinton's surplus was quickly turned into trillions in debt?
Were Democrats in control when stimulus package after stimulus package was passed from 2000-2008?

Finally, who was the last GOP President who balanced the budget? Any ideas Kim?

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

@One old man. I guess you will have to decide what truth means to you.

@Wonder. If I knew a 35% tax rate on a minority of citizens would be the "true" solution to our economic problems, I would be all for it. The truth is, there is no amount of taxation that can sustain our government's spending as it is. The truth is our government spends too much money, money we don't have; hence our $16.2 trillion and growing by over a $1.5 billion everyday debt. The truth is unless we control our spending, our economy can not, will not survive.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Those who believe in law and who have integrity insist that Congress limit itself to do only what we, the people, have authorized it to do. Those who do not believe in law insist that Congress can do anything at any time and that one segment of the population, the fictional "rich guy" pays for everything.

Principles guide everything that we do. If we are principled, we NEVER do anything at the expense of someone else nor do we pass our responsibilities onto others. If we have no principles, we don't care how much someone else is hurt, as long as we get what we want.

We have the right to expect the Federal Government to limit itself to only do those things that we have authorized it to do. If we have principles, we will loudly object any time the Federal Government exceeds those limits.

Compromise is not possible when some people willingly reject the Constitution and then demand that we go along with them. No person with principles will participate in illegal activity. Any program not authorized by the Constitution is illegal on the Federal level.

No compromise is possible.

Moderate
Salt Lake City, UT

I understood that "raising taxes" is against Conservative Republican values. If they do nothing, taxes WILL go up. If conservatives compromise, at least they can negotiate some restraint in the increase. What an extremely odd letter "Conservatives should do nothing, and let taxes rise a lot".

Henderson
Orem, UT

What exactly have Republicans compromised on?

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