@sammyg"And to all you Ute homers ... that said Jimmer would
never make it in the NBA ... he did. Go watch a 49ers game this weekend and
watch Smith backup CK."What's your version of "make it
in the NBA"? We all knew he'd get drafted and he's under contract
so it's not like he's not staying for a while.The funny
thing is you then go straight to Alex Smith as if that's your version of
not making it in the big leagues ... yet Alex has had what, 2 or 3 new contracts
since his rookie deal? And by the way, he's a backup ... not a backup to
the backup.sammyg = FAIL
And to all you Ute homers still smarting from last week's 'we almost
beat BYU' moment that said Jimmer would never make it in the NBA...... he did.Go watch a 49ers game this weekend and watch
Smith backup CK.
To the Flinchman - you ask "Since when is having less experience considered
an asset?"Yet, in the prior paragraph, you encourage us to add
in their respective stats to make a comparison absurd.I've got
to agree with LetsDebate - you're far too biased, and obviously so, to make
a rational analysis.Having more experience (Jimmer) has led to
better on-court play, and his stats per minutes played this season are BETTER
than Lillards, so adding in the stats seems to only diminish your argument and
make YOU look absurd as a debater.I'll concede that their roles
on their respective teams, and their respective minutes on the court, give a
clue that Lillard is indeed more valuable with possibly better talent at this
given time. It may be a glimpse into his future, but he may be a flash in the
pan - you have no idea with just half of half a season under his belt. Good
grief - CJ Miles gave us stretches just as long that made us think he was a
superstar in the making.Your reasoning is extremely weak, so maybe
stop pretending you have it all wrapped up.
@2FerBasketball is simple to simpletons and casual observers. The
more one understands about basketball, the more complicated it becomes.
Probably better for some to stay simple, where a few stats seem to tell the
entire story, and you can pick the stats that support your biases.You might notice that I've not claimed that Jimmer is a better NBA player
than Lillard. I just think your arguments and stats are meaningless and show a
rather weak understanding of the many facets that determine a player's
worth. I've countered your simple and manipulated arguments with simple
and manipulated arguments to demonstrate how easy it is for a simple person to
manipulate an argument with cherry-picked stats. Obviously, my parallelism has
been lost on you as you keep returning with equally shallow points.For example - you think starters play the same team as 2nd-stringers. Good
one!Your rationale that Lillard had a better college career than
Jimmer is truly worthy of a hardy laugh, and is probably the most obvious
example of your blind man-crush on Lillard, or your blind hatred of Jimmer.
Either way, it's surely strips you of any credibility.
LetsDebateThey both play in the exact same league, and in the same
conference. They both play against the same 31 teams. Basketball is pretty
simple to understand. The better, more valuable players, play more. Lillard
plays a ton while Jimmer warms the bench. That fact alone effectively ends the
argument. Add in their respective stats and the comparison between the two
becomes absurd.You did make me laugh with the experience comment
though. Since when is having less experience considered an asset?
@Wildcat and othersJimmer is not a worn out fad as the more than 50
comments on this thread alone show. What does Jimmer being "pale" or
dare I say white have anything to do with anything? Love him or hate him, we
can't leave him alone.
Memo to the BYU Homers ... it's not all about Jimmer's offensive stats
per minutes played. There have been a ton of players who never made it in the
NBA who had good offensive minutes for the few minutes they were played ... yet
the reason they never made it was for something else ...... DEFENSE.End of story.
@2FerWhat is dishonest? Jimmer's season NBA numbers (so far)
vs. Lillard's season NBA numbers (so far) are completely valid. And the
numbers clearly show that Jimmer has outperformed Lillard in the minutes
given.See - I can play the same game. If you don't want a
battle of cherry-picked stats with ridiculous claims of dishonesty, you
shouldn't start one. On the first comment page I explained why statistical
comparisons between the two are absolutely meaningless, but you keep trotting
them out with your own spin to somehow "prove" Lillard's
superiority.Let's see - they play on different teams, under
different systems, playing different roles, at different times of the game, and
their levels of NBA experience are different, yet you think there's enough
data to prove something. The only thing you're proving is that your bias
prevents you from offering a credible analysis.Same with a
meaningless college comparison of two great players in wildly different
circumstances. I guess you should have been in charge of all the national
collegiate basketball awards, since your 3 statistics clearly show your prowess
in comparing all factors that make the best overall college player.
@ LetDebateWhat is dishonest? Lillard's career NBA numbers (so
far) vs. Jimmer's career NBA numbers (so far) are completely valid. And
the numbers clearly show that Lillard has outperformed Jimmer.As for
college careers: Comparing both of their senior seasons Lillard had a better FG
percentage, a better 3-point percentage, and averaged less turnovers. The only
difference is that Jimmer took over 750 shots and Lillard took just under 500.
In short, JF was a ball hog.
Hey Uteology - the Utes were physical on Saturday, I could see that. But, they
lost, so apparently they "weren't physical enough" to keep BYU from
scoring more than them. How could they be "too much" of anything good
if they lost, and who said they were "too physical" for the Cougars
anyway?And, why did BYU keep shooting from the outside? Who knows,
but I don't think it has anything to do with Utah being physical. Have you
watched any BYU games for the last 5 years? That's their game plan for
every game. Live by the 3, die by the 3. If they miss their first 20,
they'll shoot 20 more hoping the averages work in their favor.But yeah - everyone's crying about Utah being "too physical."
@Uteology - even the very best teams have bad games sometimes, even shooting a
low percentage in their own building on occasion. So what? It's still
true that even on a bad night, the Cougs beat your Utes with just over 30%
shooting. Although even decent teams would have trouble beating
Duke on an off-night for Duke, BYU's not exactly Duke. Aren't you
embarrassed to have such a horrid team that they can't beat an above
average team on one of their worst shooting nights? I thought the Utes played
some good defense and showed some real potential, but they still lost to a very
lackluster and underperforming BYU team. Seems that your slamming BYU only has
the effect of piling on embarrassment for your beloved Utes. Seems you have a
pretty low opinion of the Utes. Just how awful do you think they are? Obviously the Utes weren't "too physical" because #1 the
Cougs won, and #2 nobody on the team was complaining about the Utes being
USNGarySouth Jordan, UTUteology, who won that game? U
can't beat the Y even when they shoot in the low 30% for the game-----------We're picked last in the PAC-12, so why are you
shooting 30% against Utah at HOME? Why not take high percentage shots inside,
why couldn't you dominate the paint, why keep shooting from the outside?
Oh yea, we were "too physical" for your team.
If the DNews would show some sense of professionalism and do a Lillard Watch, I
would stay on that thread. A potential Rookie of the Year deserves a
story...much more than a faded out college fad from a couple of years ago
(although I gotta admit, that small, slow, and pale kid sure plays a mean
bball). Until then, just get used to your old pal--Wildcat!
@Two for FlinchingYou can call 1/4 of one season a "career"
if you like, everyone else is making an honest comparison of numbers for this
season. The only "career" either of them has at this point to make any
kind of meaningful comparison is a "college career." Need I embarrass
you about that comparison?Nothing like having blatantly dishonest
spin completely exposed, am I right?
@ Lets debateJust looked at NBA . comJimmer's
number are .476 FG percentage and .400 for his career. 3 point shots .400 (.366
career). FT's .920 (.863 career). Nothing like having a blatant lie
completely exposed, am I right? Btw, NBA's website also confirmed that
Lillard's career numbers are better than Jimmer's.
gchris"To all the Lillard fans: This article is about Jimmer
Fredette, not Damien Lillard."Amen!
UteologyBottom line, which you conveniently overlooked,
with Nick Emery, Eric Mika, Luke Worthington, Jakob Hartsock, and
Braiden Shaw already signed,TJ Haws already committed, Kyle Collinsworth returning from a mission, and Tyler Haws, Matt
Carlino, Anson Winder, Josh Sharp, Cory Calvert, Nate Austin, and others
returning next season, even without Jabari, BYU is loaded with
talent for the next several years.
2ferBeing a National College Player of the Year IS a MUCH Bigger
deal than having a few good games to start your rookie season in the NBA.btw, Lillard was 2-14 last night, 0-5 from 3; 5-13, 2-5 from 3 the
previous game; not exactly HOF-type numbers.Call us when Lillard is
inducted into the NBA HOF and we'll talk.
@Two For FlinchingPer NBA's official website:Lillard: 43.4 FG percentage, 38.2 3-point percentage, 82.1 freethrow
percentageJimmer: 48.1 FG percentage, 41.4 3-point percentage, 91.7
freethrow percentageNBA stats are not open to opinion or
interpretation, and I'm guessing that ESPN is not in charge of official NBA
statistics. While you may be entitled to your own opinion about Jimmer's
abilities, you are not entitled to your own facts, and neither is ESPN.
To all the Lillard fans: This article is about Jimmer Fredette, not Damien
Lillard. I saw Lillard play once in college--against BYU--and I wasn't
impressed. I've seen him play twice in the NBA and he did okay, but
he's no Jimmer. Fredette will have his day--just not with the Sacramento
Kings, a team that happens to be the worst managed, most poorly coached and most
disfunctional NBA team in history. I enjoy reading the "Jimmer Watch"
stories. I wouldn't even read "Damien Watch" stories. Does the
Ogden Examiner run Damien Watch? Good, go there.
Thank you Mitchell_12 (credit where credit is due),I hope Jimmer
does well. He is a great talent. I didn't like his style of game in
college and didn't think it would crossover to the NBA as well, which is
proving to be correct so far.There are reasons why Jimmer
doesn't get more minutes. I hope he does get on a different team, but I
think his role is not going to be what many Cougar fans think.OCOUG--I will try to update my Lillard watch but only have 200 characters to
do so.In the meantime, the D-News not even posting a story when
Lillard wins Rookie of the Month for November--SHAMEFUL. The DesNews readers
deserve better--and I'm going to give it to them.Your Pal,Wildcat
Uteology, who won that game? U can't beat the Y even when they shoot in
the low 30% for the game
Per ESPN:Lillard: 43.4 FG percentage, 38.2 3-point percentageJimmer: 40.0 FG percentage, 36.7 3-point percentageAlso, claiming
that being the national college player of the year is a bigger deal than being
inducted to the hall of fame in the NBA is laughable. NBA is bigger/better, and
it's not close.@ SammyIf you want to talk about
Alex Smith that is fine. He has already accomplished far more in his career
than Jimmer ever will. Not only that but Smith will be a starter in the league
next year. Think Jimmer is going to be starting for anybody on this side of the
@Snack PACWhy? BYU already has a Top 10 recruiting class committed
for 2013. Jabari would simply push that closer to, if not all the way, to #1.---------------Nope. With a Lone Peak High
roster you are ranked:ESPN #17Rivals #30Scouts #25Jabari is the real deal, but not sure how a roster full of Lone Peak
High players gets you passed the Sweet 16 considering a PAC-12 "bottom
feeder" was too "physical" for your team last weekend.
We Lillard fans are NOT trying to talk bad about Jimmer. All we are trying to do
is ask for the same exposure for Lillard. Why not be happy for both guys that
have made it to the NBA. I hope Jimmer can get more minutes/get traded. Glad
Lillard is having a great year and hope he continues his rookie of the year
ways! Lets give credit where credit is due.
Uteology"Judging by how BYU played last weekend against the team
picked to finish last in the PAC-12 you better hope you land Jabari."Why? BYU already has a Top 10 recruiting class committed for 2013.
Jabari would simply push that closer to, if not all the way, to #1.
@Snack PACFollowing Jimmermania with Jabarimania would be more than
utenation could handle.-----------Judging by how BYU
played last weekend against the team picked to finish last in the PAC-12 you
better hope you land Jabari.Lillard vs. Jimmer comparisons,
really?Lets just hope Jimmer stays around for Jabari vs Jimmer
comparisons. Now that would be interesting.
I never watched Lillard in a college game. In fact, I know more about Kemba
Walker than Lillard. Lillard could go on to be the NBA MVP and I would still pay
more attention to Jimmer...because I enjoy the story of the short white Mormon
kid trying to make it in the NBA. I hope he continues to improve and gets a
chance to play enough minutes to get his rhythm and confidence back. Jimmermania
is not dead...just waiting to roar again, even if just in Provo or for a few
games. Which is one of the reason's for the Jimmer Watch. :-)
Right on Snack PAC. Alec Smith was a good collegiate that Utes fans still
idolize. He looks like Aaron Rodgers until he gets on the field and then -
nothing. Hey Ute fans, Jimmer is a good guy and fun to follow. Don't try to
spoil the fun.
Why is it that the Lillard fans come on to every Jimmer article and start trying
to compare the their abilities and records. This is not about Lillard. The
indisputable fact is that Jimmer is probably the most famous college basketball
player to come out of Utah.....FACT! That does't mean we start comparing
him to Danny Ainge. Only people who are trying to compare Jimmer to Lillard are
Lillard fans. Both Jimmer and Lillard have a long long way to go to finish
their NBA careers. Let's just see how it all works out. It is totally
stupid to compare the two. If we go on the record results....they speak for
themselves. Believe me.....barring a career ending injury for either player,
they will be great in their own way. One thing is for sure and is also a fact,
Lillard does not sell the tickets that Jimmer does nor does he have the
following nation wide, nor will he ever have the fan following that Jimmer has.
We have someone we love to follow, Jimmer. Who cares about other good players?
Jimmer is the whole package.
Snack PACThat was funny... thank you!
#utesnationGotta laugh at the inconsistency of Utah fans who still
follow Alex Smith around like lost little puppies, but whine about BYU fans
continuing to show an interest Jimmer.Regardless of how you spin
Lillard's early success in the NBA, it doesn't retroactively apply to
his barely noticed on a national level collegiate career.I see
you're still living with the nightmare of Jimmer's last game in the
Huntsman where he literally destroyed the Utes single-handedly?No
wonder utenation is in such a panic about the possibility of Jabari committing
to BYU.Following Jimmermania with Jabarimania would be more than
utenation could handle.
They need to play the guy, simple as that. While he sat on the bench the Kings
stunk. Maybe they will continue to stink. So you might as well play him and see
@WildcatStill waiting for your Lillard Watch to give us the number
of minutes and turnovers per game from Lillard. As stated previously, I think
your watch is great, but it needs to be more complete and balanced.@Two for flinchingYou and Chris B. seem to enjoy posting
inaccurate information. Lillards FG %43 Jimmers 48% Lillards 3pt %38
Jimmers 41% Lillards APG 6.5 Jimmers 1.3 Lillards MPG 38 Jimmers
Because Lillard is having a wonderful rookie season, does that somehow mean
Jimmer is no good? Because Jimmer was in a situation and on a team where he
could shine in college, does that mean Lillard was not a top college player? Of
course, the answer to both questions is "NO!" They're both fine
players. I'm proud that Lillard went up from Weber and that he's doing
so well. I wish Jimmer was in a situation to play and improve more. We're
lucky to have had them both here in Utah. I wish them both the best.
@ true blueyou really aren't letting go of your obsession with
Jimmer are you??? Are you that worried about him?? To say that what lillard is
doing and WILL continue to do at the HIGHEST level of basketball (rookie of the
year, elite PG, Hall of famer) would be over shadowed by one year of jimmermania
is foolish. i'm sorry but I think "jimmermania" is going to be
overshadowed by the fact that jimmer doesn't play more than 10 minutes a
game. You're right jimmer was the national player of the
year... but that was two years ago... and I think its safe to say that when
you're picked 6th overall and you're in the race to win rookie of the
year you're not only known, but well known outside of the state of utah and
the big sky... it was a good attempt though.. Also, byu fans
don't start beating your chests thinking this is some underlying attempt to
start a war about byu and utah....
To compare Jimmer to Lillard is stupid, Lillard is a natural point guard and
Jimmer is not, so Jimmer has to convert to that position, that's not a easy
thing to do in the NBA and especially when you have no support from the
organization or the coach. To Sacramento you don't go out and continue to
sign more point guards if you want to develop someone. Now Lillard is a better
pro and I think will have a great career, I like his game and I think he could
become one of the better point guards in the league. Jimmer on the other hand
can become a good player but I think his ceiling is lower because his defense
will hold him down a little. As far as a college player Jimmer was better, but
the pro game is different. And for those who say Jimmer is selfish, well usually
teams don't win with selfish players, most guys couldn't put up those
numbers without hurting their teams but Jimmer did it and improved the team.
Bottom line there both fun to watch.
To Mr Wildcat,I wonder if Jimmer had the minutes lillard was given
what his numbers would be. I'm betting better. But until a different coach
is in charge of Sacramento we just won't know. Until then we might as well
root for both players. An angry Ewete fan would boo anyone not from the U. Us
classier fans surely can root for all players who played at any Utah school.
I love Jimmer and hope he gets his chance to play more minutes. I'd love
to see how he does now as a starter, with some experience under his belt. But, you can't make any relevant comparison between his stats and
Lillard's. Since Lillard starts and Jimmer comes off the bench,
they're usually playing against very different teams. Gordon Hayward
scores a lot more points coming off the bench than he did when he started.
Jimmer may be developing into one a credible threat off the bench, but probably
would be expected to curb his shooting and dish out more assists if he started.
And, when he does create a shot, he's usually doing so against a second
team defense.The statistical comparisons are absolutely
meaningless.And, I've said it before and I'll say it
again, everyone who bemoans Jimmer's defense is woefully oblivious to
horrible defense being played by many starters, including some of the Jazz.
Jimmer's defense is no worse than NBA average, and those who keep beating
that drum are just lazy scout wannabe's who regurgitate lame cliches to
sound more knowledgeable than they really are.
What language is "Dog, Jimmer got moves, dog"? My grade school English
teacher really let me down.
Jimmer Fredette gained national fame during his collegiate career at Brigham
Young University, where he was the leading scorer in all of NCAA Division I
basketball during his senior season and earned every major National Player of
the Year honor, including the Wooden Award, the Naismith Award, the Adolph Rupp
Trophy, and the Oscar Robertson Trophy.Jimmer led his team to the
Sweet Sixteen and a Top 10 ranking.As a redshirt junior, Damian
Lillard led Weber State University to a 14–2 record in Big Sky conference
play and an appearance in the Big Sky championship game.Lillard
couldn't even lead his team to a Big Sky championship.Regardless of what Lillard does during his NBA career, he will NEVER be the
Concensus National College Player of the Year!--------Collegiate and professional careers are mutually exclusive. You don't
need a great pro career to validate an outstanding collegiate career. And an
under-the-radar collegiate career doesn't rule out having a great pro
career - see Sam Bowie and Scottie Pippen.
poor flinchedWould a change of subject make you feel better?
Let's talk Alex Smith... lost his starting QB slot... there does that make
you feel better?I guess you're still upset that Jimmer made
that half court shot a couple of years ago and its still on YouTube.Get over it. Jimmer makes the news in the Dnews.
Jimmer is in the top 10 for points per 48 minutes. For the limited amount of
time he is in a game he is being very productive. If he could consistently get
25 to 30 mpg you would see his ppg go way up.
How did Jimmer and Lillard do head to head in college? Just wondering....
I hope Jimmer can figure it out and become a great NBA player, but the facts are
indisputable at this point, Lillard is the better all around player.....and
it's not even close. I can't put my finger on it, but some players
are just better suited to the NBA style game.
Two For FlinchingLillard could have a hall of fame career in the NBA
(possible, but unlikely) but that would still be overshadowed by what Jimmer
accomplished as a collegian.There's a reason EVERY college
basketball fan remembers Jimmermania, but Lillard's college basketball
career was hardly a blip on the national radar.Jimmer - concensus
national player of the yearLillard - virtually unknown outside of Utah and
the Big Sky
@ 2 for flinchingSorry, you are the one with the fact problem. Where are
you getting your facts? Lillard does have more assists but Jimmer has a better
FG% & 3P%. Not to mention a much better FT%.With that said, I
think Lillard has the athleticism to be a great (not just good) NBA PG. Jimmers
skills at PG are much better suited for the college level; however, if used
right he could be a very deadly weapon for an unselfish team.
@Two For Flinching Then there is the fact that The Jimmer has trouble
guarding the faster PGs in the league. That's why he tends to remain on the
bench the entire game on several occassions. He gives up too many points.
@Still Blue after all these years:I kind of find it ironic that
Jimmer is suffering playing behind a lineup that isn't team-oriented.
Maybe his college days are coming back to haunt him. He definitely had a shoot
first mentality...if you doubt it, watch the last few minutes of the tournament
game vs. Florida. I'll say it again...I thought he was going to take his
shoes off and chuck them at the hoop that game. Or remember when he was
double-teamed in the closing seconds vs. the Jazz--he wasn't going to pass
up taking the last shot for anything. The 35 footers were cute when he made
them, but made him look like a giant ball hog when he missed them.Fredette is a great kid and a quality person. He's an inspiration to
church basketball hoopers everywhere, and the D-News (barring a restraining
order), just can't quit him, but let's not get carried away and say he
is better than Lillard, good as Lillard, or even in my opinion, relatively close
to Lillard.Lillard is the real deal! Future Rookie of the Year!
Still Blue.Lillard has a better FG percentage, better 3-point
percentage, and averages 5 times as many assists.But go ahead and
stick your head in the sand and don't let any amount of facts convince you
that Jimmer is not the greatest player in the NBA, nay, the greatest player in
the history on mankind.
First, if Fredette got the minutes Lilliard got, his number wuold be as
impressive, if not more. Second, if Fredette played on a team with any concept
(the Kings have none) of team basketball - both offensively and defensively -
his numbers would be better than Lilliards. Everyone says his defense is bad,
but he has no backup defense. Jazz guards would be beat almost every time
without backup. And Jimmer could burn every defender he played except they
have backup. Third, Fredette will never become what he is capable of becoming
in the sorry Kings organization. They are dumb, don't care and only
trying to suck cash out so the owners can have money. Smart is hardly an NBA
coach and will absolutely not allow Fredette to flourish. But I applaud
Jimmer's attitude in the face of this ridiculous mess in Sacramento.
Agreed on the sentiments regarding Lillard. He's sick.Sea
bass, I don't know what we're going to do with you!
So glad for this update! Sometimes I forget what to be obsessed with.
@Cougs4LifeAt the NBA combine, Jimmer bench pressed 184 punds 14
times. This was better than almost every one in the draft. JJ Reddick is only
stronger than Jimmer in his dreams.
Glad Jimmer is doing well...now on to bigger and better things.Lillard Watch:@ Cleveland: 24 pts, 6 Reb, 11 assists@
Charlotte: 24 pts, 3 Reb, 9 assists@ Indiana: 23 pts, 3 Reb, 6
assistsvs. Sacramento: 12 pts, 1 Reb, 9 assistsThe Trail
Blazers won the at Cleveland and Charlotte before dropping games to the Pacers
and Kings. Damian Lillard was named Rookie of the Month for November, and he is
currently 12th in the league in scoring. He is averaging 19.1 points per game,
6.3 assists/game and 3.3 rebounds per game. Unfortunately the head-to-head
matchup against Jimmer didn't happen as Fredette did not play in that game.
Jimmer had a good week. Kind of surprised to hear praise coming from D.
Cousins. Jimmer needs to play well enough that come trade deadline time,
another team will take a risk trading for him. Banking on his ability to put
the ball in the hoop. He doesn't play great defense, what true point guard
really does? The last great point guard defender I recall is the Glove Gary
Payton.The D-News should do a Lillard Watch.
Jimmer might need to hit the weight room. JJ Reddick is a similar player
(slightly undersized, good 3-point shooter, limited defensively), but based on
this picture, Reddick looks to be much stronger, at least in the arms and
I've poked fun at the "Jimmer Watch" a couple of times, but on this
occasion I'll say this instead ... Jimmer strikes me as a good guy who
approaches things the right way. I hope for him that when he eventually gets an
opportunity for consistent minutes, he'll do well and become an important
part of that teams success.I still think this "watch" should
include the leading rookie of the year candidate ... Mr Lillard.