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Comments about ‘Letter: Improper use of 'class warfare' an insult to millions of actual victims’

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Published: Friday, Dec. 7 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

When seeds are sown, are we too foolish to know what kind of crop we will harvest?

Obama has been sowing "class warfare seeds" since he has had a political voice. Why? What is his "end game"? No other President in American history has ever sown such seeds. No other President has had the goal to divide this nation.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

"Genuine class warfare took place under the totalitarian dictatorships of Joseph Stalin, Adolph Hitler and Mao Zedong. The leaders of the class with power murdered millions of human beings."

Where does the author think his examples all began? It is the culmination of what is happening right now in America. Dictators come to power and are accepted by the majority who have invented a common enemy. In our case, its the "rich" anyone who has succeeded, unless of course its those rich people on the left. Its a proven, powerful political tool and the left is still using it with great effect.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

Can either of you provide examples (specific quotes would be appreciated) of Obama's class warfare "seeds"

I am just curious as to what that means to you.

Stalwart Sentinel
San Jose, CA

Mike Richards - You obviously have little knowledge of what seeds have been sown by previous presidents. Try starting with the poignant speech by FDR in Madison Square Garden in 1936.

Quick history: FDR was a Democrat that succeeded a woefully inept Republican after that Republican, and a Republican-controlled HoR and Senate, steered our Nation into the Great Depression. When the Country realized the absolute disparity that existed among the elites and the middle-class, they figured out that it was the Republican-controlled federal government that was responsible for facilitating such inequality. So, the American people put their trust in Democrats, in both the White House and the Capitol. And we progressed.

Aside from Hoover, do you know the only other time in the last 100 years in which Republicans controlled the White House and both Houses? 2000-2006. And what did we get? The Great Recession. You see, history repeats itself. Ever heard "Bush43's jobs record is the worst since Hoover"? And just as the American people turned to the fixers of the economy then (Democrats) we are turning to the fixers of our economy now.

Also, read "A Proclamation on the Economy" please.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

@ Joe Blow. "“if you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that.” Class warfare at its finest!

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

Joe,

Spend an hour reading Obama's speeches. Why not start with his 2002 MLK speech? Instead of excusing his words, why not see what he is really saying. Why not think about what Michelle Obama meant when she said, "For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country."

Kennedy uttered the famous, "Ask not" but Obama is telling us to "demand" from government and that the "rich guy" will pay.

Both are Democrats. One had a vision of America and of Americans that inspired greatness in all of us. The other preyed on pettiness, on personal laziness, on envy, on coveting.

History will not be kind to Barack Obama. History will show that the "fiscal cliff" was not the main problem. The main problem was Obama enticing people to jump into his arms so that he could destroy private wealth, business, and incentive in America. He's spent his whole life surrounding himself with radicals whose goal has been to destroy America. Look at his closest friends and associates. Look at Bill Ayers who bombed the Pentagon. Look at all of them and see the commonality of their thoughts.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

Ah, nice try. Again the GOP taking things out of context to mislead. Here is the full context.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."

Now, to the point, you call THAT class warfare? I find that odd.

Let Ronald Reagan help you out.

“Do you think the millionaire ought to pay more in taxes than the bus driver or less?”

“More!” the audience shouted.

“We want to see that everyone pays their fair share and no one gets a free ride,” Reagan said, and that “no one is manipulating the system to their advantage because they’re rich and powerful.”

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

But Joe..you are missing the point! Most of us had great teachers, all of us drive on highways but not everyone has built a business that hires people and pay nearly 80% of all the federal income taxes paid.
Obama's comment sounds like it came right from Karl Marx "to each according to their ability and to each according to their needs". Obama has more in common with Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez than the leader of the free world. Add to that the fact that more taxes on the "rich" will only run the government for less than 10 days. Please explain how you would solve the real problem of run away government spending for the other 355 days! That's the real issue here, isn't it?

Moderate
Salt Lake City, UT

We have a bigger problem incorrectly using the word "socialism".

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

my typo..should be "from each according to their ability..sorry

one old man
Ogden, UT

Joe, I'll bet I can tell you exactly where that nonsense is coming from. "Conservative" posters here are simply regurgitating the garbage they hear on the radio from propagandists like Rush and Glen and Sean and . . . and . . . and . . .

In the meantime, calling what Stalin and Mao and Adolf did "class warfare" is also nonsense. It was political war, religious war, and war against the educated people who were capable to questioning what they were doing.

Not much different, really, than the war being waged in America today by our corporations and certain political groups like ALEC and the GOP. They just have become smart enough to realize that you don't have to kill people to advance your causes. Just numb their brains with a constant stream of scare tactics and right wing propaganda and warnings of imaginary conspiracies.

We frequently see the results of that mind numbing in posts right here.

Roland Kayser
Cottonwood Heights, UT

To see class warfare at work you need only examine one statistic. The share of the national income going to working people vs. to corporate profits and the very rich. For several decades after WWII about 2/3 of the national income went to workers. Starting in 1980 that started to decline, it flattened out in the 90's and then started a steep decline in 2000. Now only 52% of the national income goes to work, the remainder goes to corporate profits and the very rich.

The share that has been shifted away from workers is equivalent to the total amount of taxes collected by the federal government. That's a massive amount of money that has been taken away from workers and gone into the pockets of the hyper-rich.

That's class warfare. AS Warren Buffet said "we've had class warfare in this country for the last thirty years, my class won".

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

Reagan and his Reaganomics started the class war. In the past 30 years wealth distribution has been increasingly concentrated among the rich and middle class wages have stagnated. Then when the middle class fights back the elites say they're starting a class war.

Thinkin\' Man
Rexburg, ID

The presidential election was, in part, a war against the wealthy, successful businesses, and "old white guys." Look at the incredible bigotry revealed in the demographic vote statistics. The president continues class warfare by pandering to the polls, championing increasing taxes on "the wealthy," which does nearly nothing to address the Federal deficit; it's pure pandering.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Please everyone, just read "Who Stole the American Dream," by Hedrick Smith.

If you do, you will have a much better understanding of how we got into this mess.

And it is not simply just a black-and-white, Democrat, Republican mess. It involves much, much more than that.

It's hard -- if not impossible -- for anyone to solve a problem unless they understand what caused the problem.

But far too many of us are willing to accept propaganda instead of good information. When we do that, we simply add to the problem.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@Mountanman
"“if you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that.”

If you bothered to read/hear his entire paragraph or two around that you'd know he was clearly saying that businesses didn't build the roads they use to transport their goods, that it's a benefit they use that helps them succeed. But no... context would mess with the talking point you want to make now would it? But I see later you still want to press this... fine... how about this quote? Is it Marxist? After all he's talking about roads too.

"There are a lot of people in government who help us and allow us to have an economy that works and allow entrepreneurs and business leaders of various kinds to start businesses and create jobs. We all recognize that. That's an important thing.... I know that you recognize that a lot of people help you in a business. Perhaps the banks, the investors. There's no question your mom and dad. Your school teachers. The people that provide roads, the fire, and the police. A lot of people help." - Mitt Romney

Christian 24-7
Murray, UT

"To see class warfare at work you need only examine one statistic."

I really like that idea. Can I pick the one statistic we look at?

Kent C. DeForrest
Provo, UT

From the Free Dictionary: "Class warfare: conflict between social or economic classes (especially between the capitalist and proletariat classes)."

Doesn't say anything about what the letter writer claims is class warfare. Sounds like we're using the term properly in America today and not offending anyone. And yes, Warren Buffett is right.

Kent C. DeForrest
Provo, UT

From Dictionary.com: Class struggle:

1. Also called class conflict. conflict between different classes in a community resulting from different social or economic positions and reflecting opposed interests.

2. Also called class war, class warfare. (in Marxist thought) the struggle for political and economic power carried on between capitalists and workers.

Pointless letter stretching to make a point.

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT

Excellent letter. And in the same vein, people love to compare their political opponents to Hitler, or Stalin or someone. Rhetorical excess combined with historical ignorance; a nasty combination.

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