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Letter: My fellow Republicans, find common ground

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  • One of a Few Layton, UT
    Dec. 6, 2012 9:33 p.m.

    D&C 7:6 For if ye are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things;

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Dec. 6, 2012 12:31 p.m.

    hahahahah said: Here are the facts, that this letter tries to ignore. NOBODY voted for Obama, who REALLY wants and expects freedom from government and its tyranny.

    Once again typing fact doesn't make it anymore factual than Rush telling you his opinion is a fact.
    They're learning from radio, but not to reason just parrot.

    How much name calling can be in a comment? Because hahaha sure gets a lot thru the censors.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 6, 2012 8:57 a.m.

    Isn't it reassuring to know that not only the SUPER Majority of America (67%)
    but not even the Majority of Republicans (53%) now believe that the Bush tax breaks on the 1-2% should be allowed to expire?

    Who's out of whack here?
    Who's in the extreme here?
    Who's not getting the picture here?

    Ya - the same old same olds...who come on here trying to convince us that ONLY they can be right, and therefore eveyone else MUST be wrong.

    Thank God in Heaven for our Democracy.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:47 p.m.

    Re:JThompson

    Theoretically, we all pay the same tax rate on the same amount of income. Even if the tax cuts expire for only upper levels of income,
    the wealthy will still get the same tax rate on lower levels of income.

    Apparently Republicans think continuing to characterize half of the American population as "takers" is a good strategy moving forward. But they are wrong. They insult the majority of us who've worked hard and sacrificed our whole lives. When lower income, working Americans take advantage of tax laws put into place by Republicans and Democrats which zeros out their income tax suddenly they become takers in Republican's eyes. When other people accumulate massive wealth in part due to special tax treatments suddenly they are worthy of special protection and adulation. But the majority of Americans have awakened to the fact that increasing income inequality, more wealth concentration at the top, isn't resulting in more jobs for Americans or a stronger economy. Republicans can choose to ignore the results of the election, and refuse to compromise with the electoral and popular vote winner. Polls indicate Republicans will bear the brunt of failure.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:35 p.m.

    KJB,

    If you're willing to pay the same tax tate as you want someobe else to pay, then there is no argument; however, if you think that you are somehow exempt from paying that rate, then perhaps you should explain why tou think that you're "too good" to pay the tax tate rhat you expect a fellow citizen to pay.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Dec. 5, 2012 6:53 p.m.

    Mike Richards:

    I know that reality doesn't live up to your Ayn Rand fantasies, but between sales taxes, state taxes, local taxes, Medicare, Social Security, and property taxes, just about everybody in America already *does* pay for government programs. Heck, even unemployment benefits are taxed.

    And the Democrats don't want your mythical "rich guy" to shoulder the entire burden, but he does need to pair his fair share. He hasn't for years, and the country has suffered because of that.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 6:29 p.m.

    Mountainman, although your comment at 12:04 claims you are telling the truth, there is one thing you are forgetting.

    TRUTH is not what one person perceives it be, it is what is really true. What you are saying is not true.

    PLEASE try doing a little research. If you find anything to support your claims here, please provide reliable some documentation so the rest of us may see what you claim to be seeing.

  • Kimber Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 6:15 p.m.

    Good, honest and realistic comments. That is refreshing since I hear (and see on here) many unrealistic ones. President Obama won the election and those of us who voted for him are very glad. Some on here still appear to think that all of the people that voted for him are people that just like to have handouts. Well, that's just not true! You need to be aware that you live in an area that has the largest majority of people in the country that will vote (or not vote) for someone based on religion (and possibly a person's race). More and more people in this country (like me) vote for someone based on their ideas and hard work and this meant for me, the middle class. President Obama (by the way, a valid US citizen....he was born in Hawaii in 1961 and my family happened to know him) And he produced his birth certificate (Wow, what a thing for him to ask him to do to appease the Republican hysteria) It's time to face the real world people. Many people are not like you and never will be (your race, religion or Republican Party)

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Dec. 5, 2012 3:30 p.m.

    The interesting tone of this letter is the tired old mantra of "cant we all just get along". Just makes you all warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it? Gag!
    There are a scant few democrats out there with at least half a mind, who could be leaders in crossing the aisle and finding common ground, but they will never do this, because they are to afraid their party. And yes, you can somewhat say the same thing about republicans, but that would be a weak argument.
    Here are the facts, that this letter tries to ignore. NOBODY voted for Obama, who REALLY wants and expects freedom from government and its tyranny. They absolutely want and expect a payoff from the Anointed One and his party. From the corp. exec., to the teacher, to the construction worker, to the fireman, you name it. Whether or not their job is needed or accomplishes a public good, or even if we already have to many of them doing the job, they support BHO because they want the payoff of him maintaining that welfare for them. And then you have the public assistance cases who really do have their hand out. Obama voters!

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 2:47 p.m.

    LDS Liberal,

    Do you speak for all corporations?

    I didn't think so.

    If you take the time to study the problems instead of giving "answers" to your preconceived "problems", you would see that Obama has turned America into a "slave nation" where tbe "rich guy" pays for his programs and tbe "poor guy" gets "redistributed" income. Nothing in that "program" follows any Constitutional mandate, but too many only care about what they "get", not what they should be paying.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 2:28 p.m.

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah
    Midvaliean,

    1:58 p.m. Dec. 5, 2012

    ==============

    Mike -

    I know you are a small business owner.
    I know you believe the small businesses are the biggest job creators, and fastest and brightest innovators, ect.
    I know you are concerned about the additional costs smaller businesses face with "Obamacare".

    BUT

    Did you ever stop to think of who benefits from have these "little people" suffer?

    Did it EVER occur to you that big Corporations are not going to be hurt by Obamacare one bit,
    but in fact, most will see their Healthcare burder lightened a since their employee's Insurance will no longer be covering healthcare losses?

    Did it ever occur to you that Big Corporations will see a reduction in Healthcare costs?

    Did it ever occur to you that Big Corporations LOVE to see their "better", "smaller", "faster" and more "innovative" competition brushed away to the sidelines of history?

    Did it ever occur to you that Big Corporations wanted Obamacare to help get rid of small businesses --

    Kind of like WallStreet Banks wiped out 70% of the smaller local banks throughout America?

    Nah - I didn't think you did...

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 5, 2012 1:58 p.m.

    Midvaliean,

    Thank you for answering my question. I had hoped that your reponse would have been "we're all in this together, so we need to work together to pay for those programs", but your response was, "let someone else work and let someone else sweat and let someone else pay because I am too important to pay my way as a citizen of the United States".

    Obama has told us that "slavery" is alive in America and that the "rich guy"to has become the slave. He believes and you believe that some "rich guy" should pay for your "privileges".

    We have no class system in America, no matter what Obama says.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 1:34 p.m.

    If I was asked who would pay for all govermenet programs, my answer would be: All the Mike Richards' of the world. Gainfully employed entrepreneurs who pay their employees good money with good benefits.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 5, 2012 12:52 p.m.

    Let's ask a very simple question. Who should pay for all government programs?

    If you think that somebody else should pay, then you believe in a two class system, i.e., the givers and the takers. You have already defined yourzelf as a taker. You have already told is that the "2nd" class citizens are the givers. You have already told us that you are "special" and that you don't have to pay the taxes that pay for your favorite programs.

    Unless we are equal in the responsibility to pay for government programs, we would have to be a society where "slaves" do the work and pay the taxes while the "elite" sit back and let the "rich guy" pay for everything.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 5, 2012 12:04 p.m.

    @ Screwdriver. I said Obama has borrowed more money than all other presidents combined. The fact that escapes you is that most presidents didn't borrow any money. GWB borrowed money but it took him 8 years to increase the debt about $5 trillion. The national debt has gone up by about $6.2 trillion in the last 4 years. So who is spreading lies? Not me!

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Dec. 5, 2012 11:34 a.m.

    Mountainman likes to spread miss truths. Or lie, as it were.

    The national debt was 10 trillion when Obama took office. The debt would have to be greater than 20 trillion for him to have quote "borrowed more money than all the other presidents combined."

    It's simple math right in front of your face. Don't keep saying it.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 5, 2012 11:01 a.m.

    Tulip - "The problem is "common ground" is usually a one sided affair. Seriously, when was the last time the "left" ever came our way!"

    To name just a few:

    The Bush Tax Cuts
    Welfare reform in the 1990s
    Support for the war in Iraq (of course based on bogus information from the Adminstration)
    The Patriot Act

    I personally didn't agree with some of their actions but it be wrong to claim that the Democrats didn't support the wishes of the Republican president.

    When was the last time the Republicans, especially those bound by their committment to Groiver Norquist and the Tea Party, came "our way."?

    Doesn't it seem illogical for you to claim that "common ground" ius aone-sided affair. How can that be common ground. I believe that most Americans want almost the same final results in our lives - for ourselves and our children - but it is just the method of getting there that is different. So let's find common ground on that pathway. That's all.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 10:33 a.m.

    Nice letter. It's great to see some nonidealogical, rational thinking from the Right side of the great divide.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 10:30 a.m.

    Republicans have found common ground...

    Rewarding the governor and his cabinet a 37 percent pay increase!

    How about that Utah?

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:48 a.m.

    To answer Tulip's question, whining that the "left NEVER comes to our side", taking all meaning from the term "compromise": Where was he/she when GWB and his band started promoting the idea of "regime change" (not "war", mind you) in Iraq? Plenty of Democrats jumped on the War Wagon then, but the decision turned out to be a bad one, regardless of what Mitt Romney said about it during the latest campaign.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:41 a.m.

    @Tulip
    West Jordan, UT
    8:46 a.m. Dec. 5, 2012

    ---------

    You really seem to have taken issue with the term "Common Ground" -
    You and many other like you are constantly in this little "Us vs. Them" mentality.

    Common Ground - i.e.,

    Black/White
    Muslim/Jew
    Male/Female
    Easterner/Westerner

    UNITED States of America,
    ONE Nation, Under God, Indivisible
    E Pluribus Unum,
    Diversity = Common

    But go, keep fighting if you must. Sink yourselves deeper and deeper into your "Bunker".

    =====================================

    @Roland Kayser
    Cottonwood Heights, UT
    To LDS Liberal: Archie Bunker was a strong union guy. He would not be welcome in today's GOP.
    9:04 a.m. Dec. 5, 2012

    Agreed!
    Democrats picked up the Unions in the 70's early 80's with the Healthcare issues that Republicans simply ignored.
    The final straw came bout the time Reagan fired all the Air Traffic controllers for going on strike for needing to work less stressful hours -- Which BTW, the FAA ultimately sided and agreed with the Union and gave it to them anyway. Score 1 - Union.

    Ironically - Unions also brought down the old Soviet Union and European Communism.
    not Capitalism, not the U.S. Military.
    [It's why China out-laws Unions]

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:40 a.m.

    Sorry, all the President haters on this blog just live in a la la land..oh wait that's Boehners line...sorry. However when did the Democrats last come to the Repbulicans..let's see the top marginal tax rate use to be 91%, 50% under Regan, now it's 35%. Full Social Security retirement use to be 65, now it's graduated up through 67. Capital Gains taxes use to be 25% now 15%. The list actually goes on and on.

    Exorbitant spending must stop...stand your ground. Annual deficit under Obama has gone down each year and is projected to be under the Bush years by 2016...happy..I didn't think so.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:35 a.m.

    Republicans need to find some "common ground"? First they need to find some common sense. The republican rejection of the disability treaty is one of many object lessons in their lack that. Threat to U.S. sovereignty? My ... my.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:16 a.m.

    The problem is, Mr. Larsen is most definitely the exception to his party.

    In fact, judging by his letter, he appears to lean closer to Independents or Democrats than to Republicans.

    Look at your party's position on science, women's rights, economic recovery, birth certificates, health care (in the 90s, Obamacare was your health care reform bill. Now it isn't because your party has become so radicalized), and now the fiscal cliff.

    The truth is, Mr. Larsen is very much the exception to the rule. Most of your fellow repubs are the nutcakes who have been writing in.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    Compromise is better than standing your ground?

    We teach our kids otherwise:

    If your boyfriend/girlfriend is pressuring you to have sex, do we say "compromise" or "stand your ground"?

    If someone is pushing you to take illegal drugs...?

    If you are being assaulted...?

    If your family is about to be destroyed...? (compromise as in: Just leave me my firstborn, you can have the rest?)

    I think you can all see how silly this is.

    Well I love my country too, and when people are trying to destroy it, I will indeed stand my ground, as every good soldier should. NO STANDING DOWN even if the democrat leaders tell me to.

    Exorbitant spending is an assault on this country, and the people who do and will live here for generations to come. This must stop. No compromise. No sacrificing my great great great great grandchildren to pay for stupid programs today. And no more pretending a few more dollars from the rich will stop the assault on the generations. It won't. We may have to tax more, but that will never fix anything until spending is fixed.

    NO compromise on spending cuts. STAND YOUR GROUND!!!

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 9:04 a.m.

    To LDS Liberal: Archie Bunker was a strong union guy. He would not be welcome in today's GOP.

  • Makid Kearns, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:53 a.m.

    Mountainman,

    You might be surprised to know that every year of the Obama presidency, the borrowing has gone down. Tells you how high it was for Bush.

    One thing you don't understand is that the value of the dollar has nearly 0 effect within the United States. Yes, it does make imports more costly, but it also increases exports. This is what China has been doing for more than 20 years. Keeping its currency at low values to keeps its exports high.

    A low value US Dollar will cause an increase of Jobs in the US as manufacturing increases. Exports will increase which will lower the trade deficit.

    Obama wants and has put forward a 4 to 1 cuts to spending increase plan multiple times and each time, the Republicans are the ones that are against it claiming no taxes.

    Now, if Republicans had agreed with the 4 to 1 offer last summer, the deficit this year would have been less than $250B. This would have dropped to $175B next year and dropped each year after and we would have returned to a surplus in 2017. No Republican plan ever has us returning to a surplus, ever.

  • Tulip West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:46 a.m.

    ECR: The problem is "common ground" is usually a one sided affair. Seriously, when was the last time the "left" ever came our way! It doesn't happen. "Common Ground" is code speak for "we must cave...once again." Everyone talks about how both sides are to blame for this mess. I couldn't agree more. Hence the "standing your ground" comment to the Repubs.. Though O'bama may get his way, he doesn't need our guys giving their "stamp of approval" all in the name of "common ground".

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:37 a.m.

    How do you compromise with $16.5 trillion in debt and growing by over $1.5 billion everyday? How do you compromise with the President who has borrowed more money than all the other presidents combined and has no plans to stop borrowing even more? How do you compromise with losing your retirement savings as a result of the debt causing the devaluation of our dollar? To compromised with this is to sell your soul? What will we tell our children and grandchildren?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:33 a.m.

    Great Letter.
    It's why I left the GOP 22 years ago.

    Like Republicnas say themselves --
    A Party that is becoming Whiter, Older, and more male.

    aka, Archie Bunker

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:13 a.m.

    When we stand in the voting booth, WHAT are we voting for? Do we vote for the future? Do we vote for candidates whose vision most closely matches the vision of those who wrote and ratified the Constitution? Do we vote for those candidates whose vision is not clouded by the constant erosion of those principles?

    Slightly more than half the people voted for Obama. If they truly thought about their vote, then they voted for those principles that Obama promotes.

    Slightly less than half the people rejected Obama's principles.

    Education in one field does not mean that anyone who voted for Obama studied his platform and then did a point by point comparison of his principles and his programs against his Constitutional duties and Constitutional authority.

    The people have spoken, now we will all pay the price for the decision that they made in that voting booth. Make no mistake, that price will be incalculable. Higher taxes will be the least of our problems.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    Dec. 5, 2012 8:07 a.m.

    Clark, this was a very thoughtful letter. I agree, "the taker, maker" argument is is not valid.

    I was VERY surprised that my three MBA in-laws all voted for Obama. These are three, Catholic, family men with excellent jobs, and ethics. One of them put it very well when he said:

    "The things these guys are saying scared the "heck" out of me!"

    When the Republican party is losing people of this caliber, you know it has a problem.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 5, 2012 7:58 a.m.

    Tulip..you ask the wrong question. The question now is why have a two party system where both sides are so intransigent that no governing takes place? We have two parties to represent the various views in the governing process, and we have checks and balances in that process so that one view doesn't trample the views of the other.

    You are absolutely wrong about not only the reason for the "mess" we are in but what that "mess" is. The "mess" is the absolute inability to get anything done. All the specifics of governing are manageable. The debt can be reduced, entitlements can be made sustainable..but not if one side digs in their heels and refuses to engage in governing.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 5, 2012 7:54 a.m.

    Tulip said, "We expect them to vote the values and principles of a responsible government...not go along with the destructive policies of the majority"

    But as the author of this letter eloquently pointed out, it is possible to stand up for your values and principles while still working with the other side to find common ground that will benefit the nation as a whole. Not eveyone will be totally happy with the end result - in fact that might be the mark of a successfull compromise - but the nation will move forward in a positive way.

    Just because Barack Obama won the election, he will not get everything he wants in the coming legislative term. I think he is the first to realize and understand that. But his re-election is, or should be, an indication to his detractors that the majority of the nation support his positions over those that were presented by his opponent.

    Working togather in compromise is far better for the country than simply "standing your ground." Thank you Clark Larson for pointing that out.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Dec. 5, 2012 7:38 a.m.

    Mr. Larsen,

    Thank you for an outstanding letter. Would that all would heed your advice.

  • Tulip West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 7:08 a.m.

    Find Common Ground...seems we are in this mess for that very reason. It would be more novel if Republiicans actually stood their ground. Though the president may have his win there are still those who voted for Republicans. We expect them to vote the values and principles of a responsible government...not go along with the destructive policies of the majority. Else why even have a two party system.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 6:18 a.m.

    Thank you, Clark Roger Larsen. At least there's one Republican in Utah who isn't a sore-loser ideologue. As one who voted for President Obama, I would issue a similar challenge to Democrats: Don't let that victory go to your heads and ignore 48% of the electorate.

    The obvious common ground in the "fiscal cliff crisis" is to continue current tax rates for 98% of the people who are not the ultra-wealthy. Republicans' refusal to do even that indicates that Mr. Larsen's plea is a solitary voice crying in the Republican wilderness.

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 6:16 a.m.

    It is nice to see letters like this from reasonable and intelligent people like Mr. Larsen. Most of the people I know voted for Barack Obama and every single one of them is gainfully employed in their chosen field and has built their own life independently and by their own work and initiative.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 5:37 a.m.

    Well said, Mr. Larsen. Thank you for being a sane, rational, patriotic person who happens to bbe a Republcian.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Dec. 5, 2012 5:20 a.m.

    Mr Larsen,

    A noble cause, however, you may first want to start with the basics.

    50% of GOP voters believe that Acorn stole the election.
    40+ % of GOP voters are not sure that Obama is an American citizen.

    Yes, I sometimes vote Republican but don't tell anyone. I don't want to be lumped in with those mentioned above.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 5, 2012 12:31 a.m.

    Among employees of America's premier tech companies (Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc), Obama received 80-90% of the vote.

    All ten of the best educated states voted for Obama. Better education equals higher income which equals higher taxes. Nine of the ten worst educated states voted for Romney. Low education equals low pay, low taxes, and higher levels of government assistance.

    There are three counties in Kentucky in which welfare payments constitute over 50% of total county income, the highest level of any area in the U.S. These three counties voted for Romney by a 4-1 margin.

    The Economist Magazine recently published a study that compared the federal taxes paid by each state versus the federal funds received by that state. It found with only a very few exceptions that conservative states pay less than they receive, while liberal states pay more than they receive.

    The entire conservative maker vs. liberal taker narrative is utter nonsense.