Published: Wednesday, Nov. 28 2012 12:00 a.m. MST
@Counter IntelligenceWhenever any poster makes the assumption that
advocates of any government want TOTAL government - I find it easy to discount
such opinion as extremist, irrational, histrionic and intolerant.
@Counter IntelligenceSo let me play devil's advocate for you.
Should all government employees be exempted to vote based on Benjamin
Franklin's quote? Should military members be exempted because, after all,
they are voting in the own best interest ($$$$). Should only those
who receive NO benefit from the government be allowed to vote? Farmers - nope.
Defense contractors - nope. Social Security recipients - nope. Medicare
recipients - nope. Medicaid recipients - nope. College students - nope. Let's see. That means that only rich guys will be allowed to vote.
Sounds like what the Founding Fathers wanted all along.
It's interesting to see the "party of accountability" do anything
but take accountability for their latest election loss.
Counter Intelligence. When I hear the words “government
should protect ... and then get out of the way”, it sure sounds like they
don’t want any government of business.
CHS, it would also eliminate the rich guys from voting. Stop and think, how
much of their income is somehow from the government?I doubt there is
ANYONE in America who can legitimately claim complete independence from any
financial advantages or outright income from the government.
Counter Intelligence -- here is what historians at Monticello (Thomas
Jefferson's home in Virginia) had to say about your alleged "quote"
from Jefferson."We have never found such a statement in
Jefferson's writings. As far as we know, this statement actually originates
with Gerald R. Ford, who said, "A government big enough to give you
everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you
have," in an address to a joint session of Congress on August 12,
1974."But I guess you do have to hand it to some folks. They
sure can be creative when it comes to "quoting" our Founding Fathers.
@SiloMy statement was specifically to Ultra Bob's comment demeaning
opposition to big government with a patronizing statement that "they
don’t need government to tell them how to do it"; as if small
government inherently meant "don't need government"You
responded in the complete reverse: yet can you point out anywhere where I stated
that opposition to big government meant TOTAL government?If you have
to lie about what I said to make your point - than I am safe to assume that you
have no valid point.@ CHS 85That response was simply a
histrionic reaction: no one has said anything about denying people the right to
vote - so don't put words in my (or Franklin s) mouth in order to play
victim. The gist of the quotes are abundantly clear; government cannot be
everything to everyone and when the population assumes that it can; freedoms are
lost.Thank you both for proving what I have long known: the far left
is NOT tolerant and thrives in the extremes.
Seems Mike and Mountanman are outnumbered, outgunned, and outmatched in pretty
much every way possible. May as well give it up, boys. The more you argue, the
less sense you make.It's interesting to note, however, that
Utah is one of the "taker" states, along with many other red states.
Their shortfall, fortunately, is covered by several blue states, including
Illinois and New York that pay more in taxes than they receive in "free
stuff" from the government.As for the 47 percent who pay no
income tax and would vote for Obama regardless of how many promises Mitt could
make, well many of those 47 percent did vote for Mitt. Many were poor Mormons.
@Counter IntelligenceI guess a person is only intolerant if they
disagree with conservatives, right?
@Counter IntelligenceThe beauty of your posts is that they paint a
caricature of yourself without even you realizing it. When someone points out
the irony and hypocrisy, you double down on the caricature."extremist, irrational, histrionic and intolerant."Projection much?
@ Open Minded Mormon,What has Obama done that has hurt me
personally? Obamacare! Two of my best customers simply closed shop rather than
working for the government. More than fifty people lost their jobs. Each
business owner said that he had worked 80 hour weeks all of his life and he
wasn't going to continue working that hard just so that Obama could tax him
out of existance.The average wage paid by those two companies was
$15 per hour. None of the work required more than an hour or two training. Do
the math. $1,500,000 was taken out of circulation because 50 people no longer
had jobs. Most were able to find other jobs that paid minimum wage. Their
income fell by 50%. Obama's policies did that. His threat to increase
taxes did that. His Obamacare, with its ill-defined provisions did that.Because those two businesses closed, my businesses revenues fell by over
News Flash -> The 'takers' have out numbered the makers for some
time now - long before the November election. We have burned into our minds the
sad site of the Cleveland lady screaming for her 'Obama phone'.
Yikes... what a mess this country is in!! "Ask NOT what you can do for your
country but what your government can give you for free" (Barack Obama)Yes sir - the great 'entitlement society' has prosperity
waiting just around the corner ... right?? I guess that all depends on the next
trillion dollar stimulus. America is in a world of hurt as never before and most
don't even know it. They will pretty soon. We all will.
To Mike Richards. So two businesses closed and around 50 people lost their jobs
because the owners calimed they wouldn't continue to work if they had to
provide health insurance for their employees (I'm sumizing here a little).
First of all if you employ under fifty people you don't have to provide
health insurance under the ACA and there is no penalty. So somebody made a very
bad decision. Secondly, a business owner who pays $15 an hour with
no benefits (especially health care) is the very cause of why 47% of Americans
work, receive government subsidizies, and pay no income taxes. You and your
friends can't have it both ways. Pay poverty wages then complain about
families not paying taxes and getting "free stuff".
@silo"The beauty of your posts is that they paint a caricature of
yourself without even you realizing it. When someone points out the irony and
hypocrisy, you double down on the caricature."I do realize it.
'Becoming what you despise' should be a concern for everyone - even
you. I do have to watch myself (as should you). However; in this case, I was
responding to a distinct overreaction by Ultra Bob - your post merely put words
in my mouth so you could whine that you are put-upon. Therefore it is rational
for me to discount your criticism as merely being a manipulative attempt at
shaming me into silence, while excusing yourself from your own
"caricature". Amazingly; You are human too; check the mirror.@CHSYou can disagree with conservatives all you want, and ironically
they can do the same. Just don't complain that you are a poor innocent
victim when they call you on the 'I hate intolerant people' drivel -
because they are rightfully noticing the hypocrisy. You are the one who
jumped to the 'take away the right to vote' hysteria, not I. Guilt
trip officially rejected.@one old manWhatever - its still a
@CI"Surely this letter writer knew he would get a barrage of hate from
the "tolerant" people. which ironically advances the credibility of his
point."what cotniues to be ironic is that you always complain
about others trying to play the victim but are always the first one to play the
victim card on every thread.
Get over it sore losers. Fact is Romney offered a shiny new twenty percent
across the board tax cut paid for with.... Well he never says which is code for
he would not pay for it.
We're fine. This 'takers/makers' thing is just a hot air
Take it from someone with a front row seat to how your federal tax money is
spent: far more of it goes to line the pockets of so-called "maker"
defense contractor CEOs than to indolent "takers" in this country. If
you think that paying the former's golf club memberships with your tax
dollars is more worthwhile than assisting retirees, students, families below the
poverty line, veterans, and the disabled, please tell your congressman to keep
supporting massive subsidies to the private sector "makers" (it's
as American as apple pie!). And do some soul searching.
Can anyone give specific numbers on how obamacare will tax a business to death?
I have heard it is an one percent tax on taxable income after 250k.
Variations of this quote have been attributed to Tytler, DeToqueville and
others. It is true if you read it correctly: democracy will fail when people
realize they can vote themselves tax breaks and favors from the public trough.
Those "takers" today are the largest corporations (the are people
according SCOTUS) and the wealthy whose public largesse far outweighs the 47% on
a per capita basis.The quote is simply a variation of the scripture
which forbids the idler (the millionaire lounging in his deck chair) from eating
the bread of the laborer (the guy mowing the millionaire's lawn).
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