Comments about ‘Letter: After election, seems takers now outnumber the makers in this country’

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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 28 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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Sandy, UT

@Counter Intelligence

Whenever any poster makes the assumption that advocates of any government want TOTAL government - I find it easy to discount such opinion as extremist, irrational, histrionic and intolerant.

CHS 85
Sandy, UT

@Counter Intelligence

So let me play devil's advocate for you. Should all government employees be exempted to vote based on Benjamin Franklin's quote? Should military members be exempted because, after all, they are voting in the own best interest ($$$$).

Should only those who receive NO benefit from the government be allowed to vote? Farmers - nope. Defense contractors - nope. Social Security recipients - nope. Medicare recipients - nope. Medicaid recipients - nope. College students - nope.

Let's see. That means that only rich guys will be allowed to vote. Sounds like what the Founding Fathers wanted all along.

Orem, UT

It's interesting to see the "party of accountability" do anything but take accountability for their latest election loss.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Counter Intelligence.

When I hear the words “government should protect ... and then get out of the way”, it sure sounds like they don’t want any government of business.

one old man
Ogden, UT

CHS, it would also eliminate the rich guys from voting. Stop and think, how much of their income is somehow from the government?

I doubt there is ANYONE in America who can legitimately claim complete independence from any financial advantages or outright income from the government.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Counter Intelligence -- here is what historians at Monticello (Thomas Jefferson's home in Virginia) had to say about your alleged "quote" from Jefferson.

"We have never found such a statement in Jefferson's writings. As far as we know, this statement actually originates with Gerald R. Ford, who said, "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have," in an address to a joint session of Congress on August 12, 1974."

But I guess you do have to hand it to some folks. They sure can be creative when it comes to "quoting" our Founding Fathers.

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

My statement was specifically to Ultra Bob's comment demeaning opposition to big government with a patronizing statement that "they don’t need government to tell them how to do it"; as if small government inherently meant "don't need government"

You responded in the complete reverse: yet can you point out anywhere where I stated that opposition to big government meant TOTAL government?

If you have to lie about what I said to make your point - than I am safe to assume that you have no valid point.

@ CHS 85

That response was simply a histrionic reaction: no one has said anything about denying people the right to vote - so don't put words in my (or Franklin s) mouth in order to play victim. The gist of the quotes are abundantly clear; government cannot be everything to everyone and when the population assumes that it can; freedoms are lost.

Thank you both for proving what I have long known: the far left is NOT tolerant and thrives in the extremes.

Kent C. DeForrest
Provo, UT

Seems Mike and Mountanman are outnumbered, outgunned, and outmatched in pretty much every way possible. May as well give it up, boys. The more you argue, the less sense you make.

It's interesting to note, however, that Utah is one of the "taker" states, along with many other red states. Their shortfall, fortunately, is covered by several blue states, including Illinois and New York that pay more in taxes than they receive in "free stuff" from the government.

As for the 47 percent who pay no income tax and would vote for Obama regardless of how many promises Mitt could make, well many of those 47 percent did vote for Mitt. Many were poor Mormons.

CHS 85
Sandy, UT

@Counter Intelligence

I guess a person is only intolerant if they disagree with conservatives, right?

Sandy, UT

@Counter Intelligence

The beauty of your posts is that they paint a caricature of yourself without even you realizing it. When someone points out the irony and hypocrisy, you double down on the caricature.

"extremist, irrational, histrionic and intolerant."

Projection much?

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

@ Open Minded Mormon,

What has Obama done that has hurt me personally? Obamacare! Two of my best customers simply closed shop rather than working for the government. More than fifty people lost their jobs. Each business owner said that he had worked 80 hour weeks all of his life and he wasn't going to continue working that hard just so that Obama could tax him out of existance.

The average wage paid by those two companies was $15 per hour. None of the work required more than an hour or two training. Do the math. $1,500,000 was taken out of circulation because 50 people no longer had jobs. Most were able to find other jobs that paid minimum wage. Their income fell by 50%. Obama's policies did that. His threat to increase taxes did that. His Obamacare, with its ill-defined provisions did that.

Because those two businesses closed, my businesses revenues fell by over 50%.

Cedar Hills, UT

News Flash -> The 'takers' have out numbered the makers for some time now - long before the November election. We have burned into our minds the sad site of the Cleveland lady screaming for her 'Obama phone'. Yikes... what a mess this country is in!! "Ask NOT what you can do for your country but what your government can give you for free" (Barack Obama)

Yes sir - the great 'entitlement society' has prosperity waiting just around the corner ... right?? I guess that all depends on the next trillion dollar stimulus. America is in a world of hurt as never before and most don't even know it. They will pretty soon. We all will.

salt lake city, utah

To Mike Richards. So two businesses closed and around 50 people lost their jobs because the owners calimed they wouldn't continue to work if they had to provide health insurance for their employees (I'm sumizing here a little). First of all if you employ under fifty people you don't have to provide health insurance under the ACA and there is no penalty. So somebody made a very bad decision.

Secondly, a business owner who pays $15 an hour with no benefits (especially health care) is the very cause of why 47% of Americans work, receive government subsidizies, and pay no income taxes. You and your friends can't have it both ways. Pay poverty wages then complain about families not paying taxes and getting "free stuff".

Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

"The beauty of your posts is that they paint a caricature of yourself without even you realizing it. When someone points out the irony and hypocrisy, you double down on the caricature."

I do realize it. 'Becoming what you despise' should be a concern for everyone - even you. I do have to watch myself (as should you). However; in this case, I was responding to a distinct overreaction by Ultra Bob - your post merely put words in my mouth so you could whine that you are put-upon. Therefore it is rational for me to discount your criticism as merely being a manipulative attempt at shaming me into silence, while excusing yourself from your own "caricature". Amazingly; You are human too; check the mirror.

You can disagree with conservatives all you want, and ironically they can do the same. Just don't complain that you are a poor innocent victim when they call you on the 'I hate intolerant people' drivel - because they are rightfully noticing the hypocrisy. You are the one who jumped to the 'take away the right to vote' hysteria, not I. Guilt trip officially rejected.

@one old man
Whatever - its still a brilliant quote

salt lake, UT

"Surely this letter writer knew he would get a barrage of hate from the "tolerant" people. which ironically advances the credibility of his point."

what cotniues to be ironic is that you always complain about others trying to play the victim but are always the first one to play the victim card on every thread.

Salt Lake City, UT

Get over it sore losers. Fact is Romney offered a shiny new twenty percent across the board tax cut paid for with.... Well he never says which is code for he would not pay for it.

American Fork, UT

We're fine. This 'takers/makers' thing is just a hot air sideshow.

Res Novae
Ashburn, VA

Take it from someone with a front row seat to how your federal tax money is spent: far more of it goes to line the pockets of so-called "maker" defense contractor CEOs than to indolent "takers" in this country. If you think that paying the former's golf club memberships with your tax dollars is more worthwhile than assisting retirees, students, families below the poverty line, veterans, and the disabled, please tell your congressman to keep supporting massive subsidies to the private sector "makers" (it's as American as apple pie!). And do some soul searching.

Sandy, UT

Can anyone give specific numbers on how obamacare will tax a business to death? I have heard it is an one percent tax on taxable income after 250k.

Heber City, UT

Variations of this quote have been attributed to Tytler, DeToqueville and others. It is true if you read it correctly: democracy will fail when people realize they can vote themselves tax breaks and favors from the public trough. Those "takers" today are the largest corporations (the are people according SCOTUS) and the wealthy whose public largesse far outweighs the 47% on a per capita basis.

The quote is simply a variation of the scripture which forbids the idler (the millionaire lounging in his deck chair) from eating the bread of the laborer (the guy mowing the millionaire's lawn).

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