A review recently completed by the Legislature found that $5.2 billion of
Utah's $12 billion budget comes from the federal government in some form or
another.So Utahn's are ALL TAKERS as well! Imagine that?
Hypocricy at its finest!
Obama won only 1 (Florida) of the top 10 states in terms of percentage of people
not paying income taxes (the rest are southern states and Idaho).
redshirt@ 11:39 are you wasting time at work?
Britain raised their tax rates and what happened? 2/3rds of their millionaires
left the country. Obama has no other plan than to raise the debt and increase
the debt ceiling....only a fool believes in this kind of fiscal policy! As a
Maker, I will continue to pay what I have always paid and will continue to find
ways to pay less and will take advantage of the losers who voted for Obama and
are foolishly waiting for him to tax the rich~?
Old Man:The Cleveland woman with the phone called it an Obama phone.
If you think she is wrong, you should have straightened her, and all her
neighbors in Cleveland out, before the election. The Obama camp
used the phones to buy votes, period. I realize that woman is now an
embarrassment, but she is, in part, what the Obama camp made her. Live with
it.Shall we blame Nixon or Ford for the next Obama administration
failure or embarrassment?
The takers don't quite outnumber the makers in this country, yet.See "‘Welfare Nation’: The Sad Truth" at The Blaze.
Currently there are 1.25 people employed in private industry for every
government worker and welfare recipiant. If that doesn't bother you
enough, there are 1.65 employed people for every welfare recipiant.My favorite stat was that a single mom lives better making $29,000/yr and
getting welfare than she is earning $69,000/yr with the same equivalent
benefits.It's no wonder people would rather get welfare than
@Screwdriver1:23 a.m. Nov. 29, 2012Agreed. Malarkey.MikeRichards: "Two of my best customers simply closed
shop…”Simply not true.1. Obamacare hasn't
even gone into effect.2. No successful business runs on a 0.7% profit
margin.3. Businesses passes along additional operating costs with a price
increase. Like increases in gas or raw materials.====================@atl1343:13 a.m. Nov. 29, 2012Papa John's guy says he'd have to increase the cost of pizzas 11-14
cents to cover obamacare. It really wouldn't harm Papa Johns at all to
increase pizza prices 2-3% [11-14 cents]. Makes no difference to the consumer if
a pizza is 6.29 instead of 6.14.[Correct -- Truth be told, IF a
business were to increase price due to "Obamacare", they mostly likely
would go it a full dollar more. Say $6.99 to $7.99Since Obamacare is
really only a 15-20 cent increase, then the owner is actually going to see an
80-85 cent INCREASE in profit! But don't let Capitalist Republicans in on
that dirty little "secret".]
Patriot -- one more time.It's not an Obama Phone.It's a REAGAN phone.Please stop blaming Obama for things St.
The Affordable Care Act promises tax credits and cost-sharing subsidies for
individuals who earn between 100 and 400 percent of the federal poverty level.
The goal is to help people satisfy the individual mandate when they can’t
afford insurance and don’t qualify for Medicaid.In addition, small
businesses will qualify for tax credits if they have no more than 25 employees
and average wages of $50,000 per year.On the other hand, the health law
imposes a penalty of $95 or 1 percent of adjusted gross income per adult,
whichever is greater, beginning in 2014. The charge jumps to 2 percent or $325
per adult in 2015, and it rises again to 2.5 percent or $695 per adult in
2016.The CBO estimates that 16 million people will receive credits
or subsidies to help pay for insurance coverage through the new exchanges in
2016. That’s 5 percent of the overall population.To review,
we’re talking about 1.2 percent of the population paying penalties,
compared to 5 percent receiving tax credits or subsidies(Washington Post).
pragmatist, screwdriverwhatever rational you want to throw up there
does not change the fact that Mike and his business suffered because of BO and
his policies. 20 hours since I asked, and no one has been able to
tell me ONE thing BO has done to help the economy. And don't give me the
lie of the porkulus - the recession ended 2Q 2009, and less than 5% of the
porkulus had been spent by then, so it CLEARLY was NOT the porkulus that ended
@shaunWell the Papa John's guy says he'd have to increase the
cost of pizzas 11-14 cents a pie to cover for obamacare. Others suggest
it's not that much but I'll take him at his word that it's
accurate. The average pizza probably costs more than 5 dollars but I want to
make sure I overestimate Obamacare's cost so that people don't just
say it's my liberal bias. 11-14 cents of a 5 dollar pizza is a 2-3%. So as
the CEO stated, getting healthcare for his employees, something the Bain-helped
company strongly opposes, would only increase costs 2-3%. Now that might be a
lot if your profit margin is something like 5%. That's half your profits.
However... I don't know any person in the nation who would refuse to buy a
pizza just because it's 11-14 cents more expensive now. AND employees would
have health insurance. That's the Obamacare subsidies to businesses at
work. It really wouldn't harm Papa Johns at all to increase pizza prices
2-3%. Makes no difference at all to the consumer if a pizza is 6.29 instead of
QUOTE "Two of my best customers simply closed shop rather than working for
the government."Really? I actually have owned a business and had
hundreds of thousands of dollars tied up in it along with a multi year lease and
other obligations. There just isn't any logic in your statement unless they
were allready loosing money from the Bush recession and HAD to close.You don't just walk away from a huge investment and future obligations
because Obamacare will EVENTUALLY cost you some money. That's just
rediciulous and I think you're making it up or easily fooled by thier
inability of taking personal responsibility for their own business losses. Most
of Obamacare hasn't even taken effect yet so that's about the lamest
excuse you could find.
Variations of this quote have been attributed to Tytler, DeToqueville and
others. It is true if you read it correctly: democracy will fail when people
realize they can vote themselves tax breaks and favors from the public trough.
Those "takers" today are the largest corporations (the are people
according SCOTUS) and the wealthy whose public largesse far outweighs the 47% on
a per capita basis.The quote is simply a variation of the scripture
which forbids the idler (the millionaire lounging in his deck chair) from eating
the bread of the laborer (the guy mowing the millionaire's lawn).
Can anyone give specific numbers on how obamacare will tax a business to death?
I have heard it is an one percent tax on taxable income after 250k.
Take it from someone with a front row seat to how your federal tax money is
spent: far more of it goes to line the pockets of so-called "maker"
defense contractor CEOs than to indolent "takers" in this country. If
you think that paying the former's golf club memberships with your tax
dollars is more worthwhile than assisting retirees, students, families below the
poverty line, veterans, and the disabled, please tell your congressman to keep
supporting massive subsidies to the private sector "makers" (it's
as American as apple pie!). And do some soul searching.
We're fine. This 'takers/makers' thing is just a hot air
Get over it sore losers. Fact is Romney offered a shiny new twenty percent
across the board tax cut paid for with.... Well he never says which is code for
he would not pay for it.
@CI"Surely this letter writer knew he would get a barrage of hate from
the "tolerant" people. which ironically advances the credibility of his
point."what cotniues to be ironic is that you always complain
about others trying to play the victim but are always the first one to play the
victim card on every thread.
@silo"The beauty of your posts is that they paint a caricature of
yourself without even you realizing it. When someone points out the irony and
hypocrisy, you double down on the caricature."I do realize it.
'Becoming what you despise' should be a concern for everyone - even
you. I do have to watch myself (as should you). However; in this case, I was
responding to a distinct overreaction by Ultra Bob - your post merely put words
in my mouth so you could whine that you are put-upon. Therefore it is rational
for me to discount your criticism as merely being a manipulative attempt at
shaming me into silence, while excusing yourself from your own
"caricature". Amazingly; You are human too; check the mirror.@CHSYou can disagree with conservatives all you want, and ironically
they can do the same. Just don't complain that you are a poor innocent
victim when they call you on the 'I hate intolerant people' drivel -
because they are rightfully noticing the hypocrisy. You are the one who
jumped to the 'take away the right to vote' hysteria, not I. Guilt
trip officially rejected.@one old manWhatever - its still a
To Mike Richards. So two businesses closed and around 50 people lost their jobs
because the owners calimed they wouldn't continue to work if they had to
provide health insurance for their employees (I'm sumizing here a little).
First of all if you employ under fifty people you don't have to provide
health insurance under the ACA and there is no penalty. So somebody made a very
bad decision. Secondly, a business owner who pays $15 an hour with
no benefits (especially health care) is the very cause of why 47% of Americans
work, receive government subsidizies, and pay no income taxes. You and your
friends can't have it both ways. Pay poverty wages then complain about
families not paying taxes and getting "free stuff".
News Flash -> The 'takers' have out numbered the makers for some
time now - long before the November election. We have burned into our minds the
sad site of the Cleveland lady screaming for her 'Obama phone'.
Yikes... what a mess this country is in!! "Ask NOT what you can do for your
country but what your government can give you for free" (Barack Obama)Yes sir - the great 'entitlement society' has prosperity
waiting just around the corner ... right?? I guess that all depends on the next
trillion dollar stimulus. America is in a world of hurt as never before and most
don't even know it. They will pretty soon. We all will.
@ Open Minded Mormon,What has Obama done that has hurt me
personally? Obamacare! Two of my best customers simply closed shop rather than
working for the government. More than fifty people lost their jobs. Each
business owner said that he had worked 80 hour weeks all of his life and he
wasn't going to continue working that hard just so that Obama could tax him
out of existance.The average wage paid by those two companies was
$15 per hour. None of the work required more than an hour or two training. Do
the math. $1,500,000 was taken out of circulation because 50 people no longer
had jobs. Most were able to find other jobs that paid minimum wage. Their
income fell by 50%. Obama's policies did that. His threat to increase
taxes did that. His Obamacare, with its ill-defined provisions did that.Because those two businesses closed, my businesses revenues fell by over
@Counter IntelligenceThe beauty of your posts is that they paint a
caricature of yourself without even you realizing it. When someone points out
the irony and hypocrisy, you double down on the caricature."extremist, irrational, histrionic and intolerant."Projection much?
@Counter IntelligenceI guess a person is only intolerant if they
disagree with conservatives, right?
Seems Mike and Mountanman are outnumbered, outgunned, and outmatched in pretty
much every way possible. May as well give it up, boys. The more you argue, the
less sense you make.It's interesting to note, however, that
Utah is one of the "taker" states, along with many other red states.
Their shortfall, fortunately, is covered by several blue states, including
Illinois and New York that pay more in taxes than they receive in "free
stuff" from the government.As for the 47 percent who pay no
income tax and would vote for Obama regardless of how many promises Mitt could
make, well many of those 47 percent did vote for Mitt. Many were poor Mormons.
@SiloMy statement was specifically to Ultra Bob's comment demeaning
opposition to big government with a patronizing statement that "they
don’t need government to tell them how to do it"; as if small
government inherently meant "don't need government"You
responded in the complete reverse: yet can you point out anywhere where I stated
that opposition to big government meant TOTAL government?If you have
to lie about what I said to make your point - than I am safe to assume that you
have no valid point.@ CHS 85That response was simply a
histrionic reaction: no one has said anything about denying people the right to
vote - so don't put words in my (or Franklin s) mouth in order to play
victim. The gist of the quotes are abundantly clear; government cannot be
everything to everyone and when the population assumes that it can; freedoms are
lost.Thank you both for proving what I have long known: the far left
is NOT tolerant and thrives in the extremes.
Counter Intelligence -- here is what historians at Monticello (Thomas
Jefferson's home in Virginia) had to say about your alleged "quote"
from Jefferson."We have never found such a statement in
Jefferson's writings. As far as we know, this statement actually originates
with Gerald R. Ford, who said, "A government big enough to give you
everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you
have," in an address to a joint session of Congress on August 12,
1974."But I guess you do have to hand it to some folks. They
sure can be creative when it comes to "quoting" our Founding Fathers.
CHS, it would also eliminate the rich guys from voting. Stop and think, how
much of their income is somehow from the government?I doubt there is
ANYONE in America who can legitimately claim complete independence from any
financial advantages or outright income from the government.
Counter Intelligence. When I hear the words “government
should protect ... and then get out of the way”, it sure sounds like they
don’t want any government of business.
It's interesting to see the "party of accountability" do anything
but take accountability for their latest election loss.
@Counter IntelligenceSo let me play devil's advocate for you.
Should all government employees be exempted to vote based on Benjamin
Franklin's quote? Should military members be exempted because, after all,
they are voting in the own best interest ($$$$). Should only those
who receive NO benefit from the government be allowed to vote? Farmers - nope.
Defense contractors - nope. Social Security recipients - nope. Medicare
recipients - nope. Medicaid recipients - nope. College students - nope. Let's see. That means that only rich guys will be allowed to vote.
Sounds like what the Founding Fathers wanted all along.
@Counter IntelligenceWhenever any poster makes the assumption that
advocates of any government want TOTAL government - I find it easy to discount
such opinion as extremist, irrational, histrionic and intolerant.
MaverickIt was pretty clear that BO had no new ideas. He offered no plans.
He offered no solutions. That’s why he ran a campaign of class warfare
and divisiveness rather than one touting any accomplishments.Open
Minded-MormonPlease tell us ONE thing BO has done to help the economy. Be
specific.As for what you asked Mike about what BO has done to limit
business growth – dudd-frank has limited credit for business expansion;
EPA regulations have added burdensome costs to production and transportation;
rescinding energy development permits has shut down energy production on public
lands. there are three right off the top of my head.
The "Makers" are being killed in sweat-shop factory fires in Pakistan
and Bangladesh.The "Takers" are Sam Walton's
Multi-MULTI-Billionarie heirs who do nothing but kick-back and collect the
profits of THEIR labors.
@Ultra BobWhenever any poster makes the assumption that advocates of
small government want NO government - I find it easy to discount such opinion as
extremist, irrational, histrionic and intolerant
It is altogether possible that Benjamin Franklin would make such a statement, he
was after all a businessman.The fact is that businessmen often
broadcast lies to defend their oppression of people. Lies like:Businessmen create jobs, rich people create jobs. Give the rich businessman
more money and he will create jobs. Fact is, this is true. Given more money
the rich businessman will spend more money and create a few jobs. The rest of
the story is that he will fight to the death to prevent any redistribution of
the money he socks away. Businessmen will do the right thing, make
the product safe, healthy and proper all by themselves, they don’t need
government to tell them how to do it. Corporations are people.Etc. Etc. Etc.
Surely this letter writer knew he would get a barrage of hate from the
"tolerant" people. which ironically advances the credibility of his
point."When the people find that they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic" Benjamin Franklin"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to
take away everything you have." Thomas Jefferson
Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahEverything that Obama does is
backwards. He penalizes the producers. His policies shut down businesses. He
reduces revenue by limiting business growth.============= Seriously?From your previous comments, you have disclosed you are
a small business owner.You some across as someone who has taken this
all too very personally, so let me ask it point blank -- Please tell
us all precisely WHAT policies Pres. Obama has taken over the course of the last
4 years that has penalized your production, shut-down or impacted your daily
business or has limited your business growth?[Please be specific.
Any hyperbole or generalities will simply be excused as a mindless, emotion
filled rant. Be specific with actual facts and data and we will listen.}The ball is in your court.You have the microphone (keyboard) and a
listening audience.We kindly await your reply.Thank You.
Google the statement. Ben Franklin never said any such tripe. According to
Wiki, the earliest attribution is 1988. Do your homework!
It's pretty clear that the GOP has no new ideas. They have no plans. They
offer no solutions. Folks like Mike Richards can only insult and belittle. This is why they were soundly beaten just a few weeks ago.I'm sorry folks, but your vision of America has been rejected. Time to come to the negotiating table and compromise with the President. Stop
making excuses.If you do not, then I fear that you will continue to
lose middle America. Yes, you'll have a few billionaires. But,
unfortunately, as this election proved, money cannot buy you everything.
And so my job is not to worry about those people—I'll never convince
them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.
What I have to do is convince the 5 to 10 percent in the center that are
independents that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other
depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not, what it
looks like. I mean, when you ask those people…we do all these
polls—I find it amazing—we poll all these people, see where you
stand on the polls, but 45 percent of the people will go with a Republican, and
48 or 4…[Recording stops.]
Audience member: For the last three years, all everybody's been told is,
"Don't worry, we'll take care of you." How are you going to do
it, in two months before the elections, to convince everybody you've got to
take care of yourself?Romney: There are 47 percent of the people who
will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who
are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are
victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who
believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name
it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them.
And they will vote for this president no matter what. And I mean, the president
starts off with 48, 49, 48—he starts off with a huge number. These are
people who pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income
tax. So our message of low taxes doesn't connect. And he'll be out
there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean that's what they sell
every four years.
Obama has already cost every man, woman and child in Ameria over $16,600 by
adding over $5 TRILLION to the deficit. In addition, healthcare costs have
increased by over $2,500 per family per year since he entered office. To add
insult to injury, the average household has had a decrease of over $4,000 per
year in income. Over 23,000,000 Americans are unemployed. 100,000 more of them
suddenly appeared on the unemployment roles the week after the election.If he increases the deficit and if wages are going down, just how does
he expect the deficit to be paid? When companies are firing people instead of
hiring people, how does he expect income tax to make a difference? If he takes
money from those who COULD build businesses and hire people, how will that money
pay for the welfare checks of people who COULD have had jobs.Everything that Obama does is backwards. He penalizes the producers. His
policies shut down businesses. He reduces revenue by limiting business growth.
He needs to spend his time learning economics 101 instead of flying around the
country agitating the people.
Montanman would have us know that the debt grows a billion a day (in truth it is
higher) but offers no alternative except perhaps the Ryan (Romney) budget. Is
he aware that the Ryan budget passed by the House at least 20 times does NOT
balance the budget in its 10 year projections AND projects 5% growth of GDP for
all 10 years? Beating up on the President is not a plan (hey wait...that is
exactly what Mitt said to the President in a debate)! Stop arguing
and show us what you've got or does it start and end only with "stop
spending"? PS. Have you thought through the reality that for
every spending cut you make, you put people in both the public and private
sector out of work transforming them from makers into takers?
I agree. Those lazy moochers whose income comes entirely from investments are
destroying our country. 13 percent of Americans pay no payroll taxes! NO Fica,
NO money to cover Medicare and Social Security! Of course it makes sense for
poor people to not pay federal income taxes; that tax is and always has been a
progressive income tax, and it was never intended that everyone pay it. But
payroll taxes are the taxes that really matter! And those people who get all
their money via investments don't pay a DIME.
Semitics my esteemed critics! The bottom line is that Romney was right! Exit
polling data shows that the vast majority of people receiving entitlements did
not vote for Romney! Had they done so, Romney would be our president!
Entitlements bought votes for Obama! Debate every word Romney did or didn't
say, but entitlements bought the election for Obama.
"According to the Pew Research Center, 62% of Republicans during
Reagan’s second term agreed that government has a responsibility to help
the less-fortunate; today, only 40% believe that. Ignoring the benefits of
getting people working, many conservatives now cite the growing number of
non-income-taxpayers as a justification for saddling them with a larger share of
the tax burden (while cutting taxes for themselves).Stop and think
about that for a moment: A Reagan-endorsed program, (the Earned Income Tax
Credit), to encourage work and get people off the dole has been recast by Romney
as part of a dependency-breeding culture of shiftless moochers. That isn’t
just wrong or bad politics. It rejects the basic faith in Americans’
capacity for self-improvement that is supposed to lie at the heart of our
national character."(Joshua Green writing for Bloomberg)Additionally, "Part of the reason so many Americans don’t pay
federal income taxes is that Republicans have passed a series of very large tax
cuts that wiped out the income-tax liability for many Americans."(Ezra
This didn't cut & paste in --so I'm adding it as part 2,
sorry ....@MountanmanHayden, ID"the gentleman
from Massachusetts" who said -- "I’ll never convince them
they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”That honesty about quoting someone still applies....
to the "gentleman from Hayden Idaho" who said - @MountanmanHayden, ID"I know I am wasting my time but "the gentleman
from Massachusetts" never said that 47% do not take responsibility for their
own lives"He said that about 47% don't pay federal income
taxes and receive free stuff from the government and they won't vote for
him". =============Umm, yes he did.and
I'm calling your bluff (ie., bold-faced lie).Here is the direct
quote from "the gentleman from Massachusetts":“All
right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon GOVERNMENT,
who believe that they are victims, who believe the GOVERNMENT has a
responsibility to care for them..."BTW - in the future
Mountanman [who even went so far as to use "quotation" marks in his
comment] -- At lease be honest when you quote people, ok?
@MountanmanHere's the exact quote by Mitt Romney: “Our
message of low taxes doesn’t connect...so my job is is not to worry about
those people. I’ll never convince them that they should take personal
responsibility and care for their lives."It appears to me that
William Gronberg was right on.
William Gronberg. I know I am wasting my time but "the gentleman from
Massachusetts" never said that 47% do not take responsibility for their own
lives! He said that about 47% don't pay federal income taxes and receive
free stuff from the government and they won't vote for him". Obviously,
that has proven to be true! If it wasn't he would be president! At lease be
honest when you quote people, ok?Your history of Hayden, Idaho is also
wrong. Wasn't it Lewis and Clark, as representatives of the federal
government, who first informed the Native Americans that "the great white
father in the east now owned all their lands"? In Idaho and in Utah,
that's still true!
The ten best educated states all voted for Obama. Better education equals higher
income which equals higher taxes. Of the ten worst educated states, nine voted
for Romney, Nevada being the only exception. Draw your own conclusions.
“U S Calvary”. Perhaps that was some kind of Freudian error ???
Correction, U S Cavalry.
According to 2011 data from the Tax Policy Center, more than half of the filing
units not paying income taxes are those with incomes less than $16,812 per year.
Nearly a third - 29% of those paying no income taxes are tax filers earning
between $16,812 and $33,542, and 12% are those with incomes between $33,542 and
$59,486. In 2011, 78,000 tax filers with incomes between $211,000 and $533,000
paid no income taxes; 24,000 households with incomes of $533,000 to $2.2 million
paid no income taxes, and 3,000 tax filers with incomes above $2.2 million paid
no income taxes. The Tax Policy Center repots of the 38 million tax
units made nontaxable by the addition of tax expenditures, 44% are moved off the
tax rolls by elderly tax benefits and another 30 percent by credits for children
and the working poor." Only 18% pay no payroll or income taxes. Of the
18.1% of American households who paid no federal income or payroll tax, more
than half were elderly, and most of the other half were non-elderly people
making below $20,000\yr.
Good post, Kalindra.And the answers to all your questions is YES.As for the final question, it is anyone who disagrees with him.
MountanmanHayden, ID@ Pragmatistfer life. There you go again. No one
said the 47% are unemployed! It a proven fact (inconvenient however)that about
47% of Americans pay no federal income taxes and even more are receiving some
entitlements. =============== So -- Why is it that
Mega-Billionaires like the Walton's of WalMart can "take" [without
producing anything themselves}, While the "workers" they employee
for dirt wages qualify for Food Stamps, Medicaid, and all the other Government
assistance?You see, this is m take on it...If I was in
Government, I'd make these "Takers" at the top 1% either pay their
"workers" more so they no longer qualify for Government assistance any
longer [i.e., raise the minium wage], orRaise their Taxes and force
THEM to repay the Government all those food stamps, Governent housing and
Medicaid assistance their workers "took".The problem is
Corporations get cheaper labor - and making even insane profits - because the
people they employee [the working poor] are in essense subsidizing their profits
via Government assistance.It's no different than Big Oil
getting Government subsidze and skewing the true Market parice for gas, or
subsidies for Farmers and skewing the true market price for foods.
According to the gentleman from Massachusetts it is 47 % of the voters that do
not take responsibility for their own lives. No one in that well heeled
Florida crowd challenged that silly assertion of Mr. Romney's. The real
unemployment rate is UN-knowable. Probably close to 15% ???The
gentleman and Mr. Obama can promise many things when on the election trail.
When you end up in the White House reality hits big time. Example closing
Gitmo. The gentleman was going to increase “free” stuff for our
military and pay for it with tax cuts. Perhaps some additional public debt
would have also paid for the additional “free” munitions and
delivery systems???Entitlements are as old as America and as
American as apple pie. When the pioneers came to the Hayden, Idaho area they
were totally entitled to the lands of the Indians. If any Indian was foolish
enough to challenge that entitlement opinion then the U S Calvary (government)
@ Mountanman: Do you acknowledge that you regard individuals who work and
contribute to the economy as takers if their wages are low enough to keep them
from paying income taxes - even if they are fully supporting their families with
no government assistance?Do you consider retired people living
frugally off their savings - on which they have already paid income taxes -
and/or social security - which they paid into their entire working life - as
takers?Do you consider veterans takers?Do you consider
those who have mental and physical health problems which prevent them from
working as takers?Please define exactly who these "takers"
are. (Oh, and if you think raising taxes on the rich makes such a
small difference, how much of a difference do you think taxing these individuals
Conservatives, your capacity for self-deception appears too know no bounds.Look, Romney won more votes from people age 55 and older by a wide
margin. What group of Americans receives the most public support? Citizens age
55 and older.Do you seriously believe that corporations don't
receive massive public assistance?But moreover, do you really
believe that _you_ are virtuous, but people who disagree with you politically
are not?Fine. Lock yourselves in your bunkers, turn up FOX really
loud, read only right wing blogs, screech to each other against global warming
and evolution, and fume about how awful the world is.You won't
Will all you faux news drones please just get over yourselves?? Once and for
all, you lost, just deal with it you're embarrassing yourselves. You
"patriots" are just passing on the latest spin and talking points fron
the entertainment arm of the republican party, but the MAJORITY of us have and
always will reject your blatant lies and trips to fantasy land (courtesy of
glenn beck) and we and the country will be just fine, believe me.
LDS lib,are you takling about those who have the sum total of $67 in taxes
withheld from the paychecks throughout the year and file for a $4500 tax
"refund"?You certainly cannot be talking about those who
create jobs and actually PAY income taxes.Of course, the truth has
never stood in the way of your opinions before.Pragmatist,stop
distorting what others say so you can play the martyr. It's really
unbecoming and reduces your credibility. Do you pay federal income
tax or not is the simple question. Do you contribute to the federal budget or do
you take from it? Do you pay more in federal income tax than you get back in
your tax refund? Not "are you a productive member of society?"
Unfortunately very few of us can say we pay more than we receive in benefits -
if we could, we would not have the deficits. What the election
showed is that we are OK living off what our children and grandchildren will
have to pay. Either that or we are OK with eventually defaulting on our debt.
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die.
@ Pragmatistfer life. There you go again. No one said the 47% are unemployed! It
a proven fact (inconvenient however)that about 47% of Americans pay no federal
income taxes and even more are receiving some entitlements. Disagree if you
will, but please, I beg you to stop twisting what people (including myself) say!
Well said Maverick. The other part of this "takers and makers" mantra
is the insinuation that (a only my people work, or (b only the work of my people
counts. That literly infuriates me. I think the unemployment rate is 7.9% not
47% so the first scenario is false on it's face. The second is the height
of arrogance. My work doesn't count because it doesn't pay as much as
yours or it doesn't pay enough to support my family..yet in Republican
world if I had a high paying job and get laid off I shouldn't just lay
around and collect "welfare" I should go get a job at McDonalds and flp
burgers, eventhough that job was worthless two days ago because you can't
support a family on it.
Nothing could be further from the truth....1% are still the Takers,
99% are still the MAKERS.When will ultra-Cons turn off their
hate radio talkinghead college drop outs from that 1% ?
All the evidence you need to know that Ben Franklin was right is the
massive,(growing by over a $1 billion/day) national debt! Democrats can clap
their hands over their ears and chant "Obama, Obama, Obama" all they
want but the debt is very real and is a fast growing cancer that will consume
us! We can not continue to spend money we don't have! Facts can not be
ignored forever! Romney promised a balanced budget and jobs, Obama promised more
free stuff and 3.5 million more duped Americans voted for the free stuff that we
have no hope of paying for than for jobs and fiscal sanity! Obama's
"tax the rich" solution will run the government less than 10 days!
Obamacare is the largest tax increase the world has ever seen,($1.2 trillion per
year increases in the national debt) is a job killer and will be the final nail
in our economic coffin!
Nothing changed. If anything Carl Rove was thwarted from doing his thing and
stealing the election again. There have long been more democrat leaning voters
in the country. When they all turn up and their votes are counted - republicans
loose.Even republicans have admitted to that and now you're
doing it again only of course you want to mischaracterize the people that
actually work, move, make, clean and create things as the undeserving takers
instead of the the lazy borrowed capital providers that control the republican
party, banks and many businesses.
Another conservative who listens to too much hate radio.
Republicans, you of course have the right to believe whatever you want about why
Romney lost the election, including the demonstrably false griping of Mr.
Woolsey's letter.But please know this - the surest way to
guarantee your irrelevance as a political party and suffer increasingly lopsided
defeats each election cycle is to soothe your damaged egos with the fairy tale
that the voters who disagreed with what the GOP was offering are
"takers" while you who supported Romney are "makers." That
sentiment is a load of baloney, and most Americans know it.
"Benjamin Franklin said it more than 200 years ago: "When the people
find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the
republic.""And subsidies for agriculture, oil, tax cuts for
the rich, and defense contracts aren't merely people voting themselves
money? What kind of corrupt and bizarre fantasy are repubs living in
where food stamps, student aid, and safety nets for older folks is considered an
"end" to our republic while unfettered defense spending, unsustainable
low tax levels, wall street bailouts, and subsidies are considered necessary and
responsible?Jeez, no wonder why you people are a dying breed.
All levity aside. How arrogant can a person be to dismiss the legitimate
outcome of our national election? Does self-righteousness know no bounds???The claim that Utahns have an "extra gene of patriotism" is
patently false in my opinion.
I keep hearing this sentiment here in the land of the
most-patriotic-people-in-the-nation. I'll be darned if I can figure out
how to get my free stuff. I voted for Obama because he indisputably the best
man for the job and now I get free stuff too?Wow! I love it when I
wake up and Barack Obama is still My President!!!
Re: ". . . takers outnumber the makers . . . ."A situation
carefully crafted by cynical "progressive" politicians who gain and keep
power by buying off opportunistic egoists and gullible rubes who can't or
won't see the damage they're doing to the Nation.