Comments about ‘Letter: After election, seems takers now outnumber the makers in this country’

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Published: Wednesday, Nov. 28 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: ". . . takers outnumber the makers . . . ."

A situation carefully crafted by cynical "progressive" politicians who gain and keep power by buying off opportunistic egoists and gullible rubes who can't or won't see the damage they're doing to the Nation.

embarrassed Utahn!
Salt Lake City, UT

I keep hearing this sentiment here in the land of the most-patriotic-people-in-the-nation. I'll be darned if I can figure out how to get my free stuff. I voted for Obama because he indisputably the best man for the job and now I get free stuff too?

Wow! I love it when I wake up and Barack Obama is still My President!!!

embarrassed Utahn!
Salt Lake City, UT

All levity aside. How arrogant can a person be to dismiss the legitimate outcome of our national election? Does self-righteousness know no bounds???

The claim that Utahns have an "extra gene of patriotism" is patently false in my opinion.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

"Benjamin Franklin said it more than 200 years ago: "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.""

And subsidies for agriculture, oil, tax cuts for the rich, and defense contracts aren't merely people voting themselves money?

What kind of corrupt and bizarre fantasy are repubs living in where food stamps, student aid, and safety nets for older folks is considered an "end" to our republic while unfettered defense spending, unsustainable low tax levels, wall street bailouts, and subsidies are considered necessary and responsible?

Jeez, no wonder why you people are a dying breed.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

Republicans, you of course have the right to believe whatever you want about why Romney lost the election, including the demonstrably false griping of Mr. Woolsey's letter.

But please know this - the surest way to guarantee your irrelevance as a political party and suffer increasingly lopsided defeats each election cycle is to soothe your damaged egos with the fairy tale that the voters who disagreed with what the GOP was offering are "takers" while you who supported Romney are "makers." That sentiment is a load of baloney, and most Americans know it.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

Another conservative who listens to too much hate radio.

Screwdriver
Casa Grande, AZ

Nothing changed. If anything Carl Rove was thwarted from doing his thing and stealing the election again. There have long been more democrat leaning voters in the country. When they all turn up and their votes are counted - republicans loose.

Even republicans have admitted to that and now you're doing it again only of course you want to mischaracterize the people that actually work, move, make, clean and create things as the undeserving takers instead of the the lazy borrowed capital providers that control the republican party, banks and many businesses.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

All the evidence you need to know that Ben Franklin was right is the massive,(growing by over a $1 billion/day) national debt! Democrats can clap their hands over their ears and chant "Obama, Obama, Obama" all they want but the debt is very real and is a fast growing cancer that will consume us! We can not continue to spend money we don't have! Facts can not be ignored forever! Romney promised a balanced budget and jobs, Obama promised more free stuff and 3.5 million more duped Americans voted for the free stuff that we have no hope of paying for than for jobs and fiscal sanity! Obama's "tax the rich" solution will run the government less than 10 days! Obamacare is the largest tax increase the world has ever seen,($1.2 trillion per year increases in the national debt) is a job killer and will be the final nail in our economic coffin!

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Nothing could be further from the truth....

1% are still the Takers,
99% are still the MAKERS.

When will ultra-Cons turn off their hate radio talkinghead college drop outs from that 1% ?

pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

Well said Maverick. The other part of this "takers and makers" mantra is the insinuation that (a only my people work, or (b only the work of my people counts. That literly infuriates me. I think the unemployment rate is 7.9% not 47% so the first scenario is false on it's face. The second is the height of arrogance. My work doesn't count because it doesn't pay as much as yours or it doesn't pay enough to support my family..yet in Republican world if I had a high paying job and get laid off I shouldn't just lay around and collect "welfare" I should go get a job at McDonalds and flp burgers, eventhough that job was worthless two days ago because you can't support a family on it.

Mountanman
Hayden, ID

@ Pragmatistfer life. There you go again. No one said the 47% are unemployed! It a proven fact (inconvenient however)that about 47% of Americans pay no federal income taxes and even more are receiving some entitlements. Disagree if you will, but please, I beg you to stop twisting what people (including myself) say!

lost in DC
West Jordan, UT

LDS lib,
are you takling about those who have the sum total of $67 in taxes withheld from the paychecks throughout the year and file for a $4500 tax "refund"?

You certainly cannot be talking about those who create jobs and actually PAY income taxes.

Of course, the truth has never stood in the way of your opinions before.

Pragmatist,
stop distorting what others say so you can play the martyr. It's really unbecoming and reduces your credibility.

Do you pay federal income tax or not is the simple question. Do you contribute to the federal budget or do you take from it? Do you pay more in federal income tax than you get back in your tax refund? Not "are you a productive member of society?" Unfortunately very few of us can say we pay more than we receive in benefits - if we could, we would not have the deficits.

What the election showed is that we are OK living off what our children and grandchildren will have to pay. Either that or we are OK with eventually defaulting on our debt. Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

Whatever
Springville, UT

Will all you faux news drones please just get over yourselves?? Once and for all, you lost, just deal with it you're embarrassing yourselves. You "patriots" are just passing on the latest spin and talking points fron the entertainment arm of the republican party, but the MAJORITY of us have and always will reject your blatant lies and trips to fantasy land (courtesy of glenn beck) and we and the country will be just fine, believe me.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

Conservatives, your capacity for self-deception appears too know no bounds.

Look, Romney won more votes from people age 55 and older by a wide margin. What group of Americans receives the most public support? Citizens age 55 and older.

Do you seriously believe that corporations don't receive massive public assistance?

But moreover, do you really believe that _you_ are virtuous, but people who disagree with you politically are not?

Fine. Lock yourselves in your bunkers, turn up FOX really loud, read only right wing blogs, screech to each other against global warming and evolution, and fume about how awful the world is.

You won't be missed.

Kalindra
Salt Lake City, Utah

@ Mountanman: Do you acknowledge that you regard individuals who work and contribute to the economy as takers if their wages are low enough to keep them from paying income taxes - even if they are fully supporting their families with no government assistance?

Do you consider retired people living frugally off their savings - on which they have already paid income taxes - and/or social security - which they paid into their entire working life - as takers?

Do you consider veterans takers?

Do you consider those who have mental and physical health problems which prevent them from working as takers?

Please define exactly who these "takers" are.

(Oh, and if you think raising taxes on the rich makes such a small difference, how much of a difference do you think taxing these individuals will make?)

William Gronberg
Payson, UT

According to the gentleman from Massachusetts it is 47 % of the voters that do not take responsibility for their own lives. No one in that well heeled Florida crowd challenged that silly assertion of Mr. Romney's. The real unemployment rate is UN-knowable. Probably close to 15% ???

The gentleman and Mr. Obama can promise many things when on the election trail. When you end up in the White House reality hits big time. Example closing Gitmo. The gentleman was going to increase “free” stuff for our military and pay for it with tax cuts. Perhaps some additional public debt would have also paid for the additional “free” munitions and delivery systems???

Entitlements are as old as America and as American as apple pie. When the pioneers came to the Hayden, Idaho area they were totally entitled to the lands of the Indians. If any Indian was foolish enough to challenge that entitlement opinion then the U S Calvary (government) got involved.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Mountanman
Hayden, ID
@ Pragmatistfer life. There you go again. No one said the 47% are unemployed! It a proven fact (inconvenient however)that about 47% of Americans pay no federal income taxes and even more are receiving some entitlements.

===============

So --
Why is it that Mega-Billionaires like the Walton's of WalMart can "take" [without producing anything themselves},
While the "workers" they employee for dirt wages qualify for Food Stamps, Medicaid, and all the other Government assistance?

You see, this is m take on it...

If I was in Government, I'd make these "Takers" at the top 1% either pay their "workers" more so they no longer qualify for Government assistance any longer [i.e., raise the minium wage],
or
Raise their Taxes and force THEM to repay the Government all those food stamps, Governent housing and Medicaid assistance their workers "took".

The problem is Corporations get cheaper labor - and making even insane profits - because the people they employee [the working poor] are in essense subsidizing their profits via Government assistance.

It's no different than Big Oil getting Government subsidze and skewing the true Market parice for gas,
or subsidies for Farmers and skewing the true market price for foods.

one old man
Ogden, UT

Good post, Kalindra.

And the answers to all your questions is YES.

As for the final question, it is anyone who disagrees with him.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

According to 2011 data from the Tax Policy Center, more than half of the filing units not paying income taxes are those with incomes less than $16,812 per year. Nearly a third - 29% of those paying no income taxes are tax filers earning between $16,812 and $33,542, and 12% are those with incomes between $33,542 and $59,486. In 2011, 78,000 tax filers with incomes between $211,000 and $533,000 paid no income taxes; 24,000 households with incomes of $533,000 to $2.2 million paid no income taxes, and 3,000 tax filers with incomes above $2.2 million paid no income taxes.

The Tax Policy Center repots of the 38 million tax units made nontaxable by the addition of tax expenditures, 44% are moved off the tax rolls by elderly tax benefits and another 30 percent by credits for children and the working poor." Only 18% pay no payroll or income taxes. Of the 18.1% of American households who paid no federal income or payroll tax, more than half were elderly, and most of the other half were non-elderly people making below $20,000\yr.

William Gronberg
Payson, UT

“U S Calvary”. Perhaps that was some kind of Freudian error ??? Correction, U S Cavalry.

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