I lived in Asia on my mission.They eat very little meat.2/3 of
their diet is rice - a grain.They have less cancer, diabetes, heart
diease, obesity is non-existant, they live longer and are much more healthy than
Americans.I believe the Word of Wisdom speaks for itself, and
doesn't need your lame interpretaions or twisted rationalizations or
illogic to excuse your conscious.
Redshirt, I agree with ou that 49 forbids me from forbidding you to eat meat. It
does not forbid me from eating meat or sharing my reasons for doing so. But
since you seem interested in this please explain why the next verse is situated
squarely between a bunch of scriptures about eating meat and shedding blood
needlessly. Vs. 20 "But it is not given that one man should
possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin."Could it be that our diet affects others? Could it be that more people
could benefit from direct consumption of the 20 pounds of grain and 500 gallons
of water it takes to produce one quarter pounder?
Uh. . . No redshirt, I said it was a silly argument.
To "LDS Liberal" actually, those animals are eaten regularly. Just
because you wouldn't lower yourself to eat them is another topic.Mink can be eaten, although few people do. Usually mink meat is sold to zoos
and pet food companies.People in England eat fox meat, and say it is
similar to deer.Rabbits are raised for meat production, just look to
any homesteading website for this.Chinchillas are tasty too. I have
eaten one.Just because you don't eat the meat doesn't mean
that nobody does. You sound like you are above eating some of those fur
animals.To "mark" so then you agree that killing innocent
rodents and creatures for the production of grains is murder. Did those mice
and voles get a say in how their homes were destroyed and children chopped up
all so that you could have that loaf of wheat bread?
"we are to use animals for both food and clothing in abundance. Did you see
that ABUNDANCE. As in lots and lots of clothing."Another word
for that is gluttony. By the way, I read the op-ed veganism is
murder. It was a truly silly argument.
The point of the letter is mink, leopard, fox, rabbit, Chinchillas and other
animals are not killed for anything else other than their hides - not eat.As I recall - human skin was considered quite the fashion statement by
high ranking Nazi German High Command. [It's the superiority complex of one
race or species over others that quickly leads to this level of debauchery.]
By this same logic, owning a cat is akin to harboring a murderer.
To "LDS Liberal" can you quantitatively define "sparingly"?
Plus, you are ignoring the scripture just like "Owen". Read D&C
49:18-19. It clearly states that we are to use animals for both food and
clothing in abundance. Did you see that ABUNDANCE. As in lots and lots of
clothing.If you claim to believe in the D&C, then you must
accept the fact that we are to use animals for both food and clothing in
ABUNDANCE.Do you only drive your car on 2 tires, or do you drive on
all 4? If you believe in the D&C, then you must believe what they state so
higvDietrich, IDWhat did Adam do with the animals he sacrificed? I
am sure ate the meat.Redshirt1701Deep Space 9, UtTo
"Owen" nice try, but you failed to address D&C 49:18-19 which is
very clear that anybody who tells you to no eat meat is wrong.=============== higvDietrich, IDNO - He burned them.
FYI - Christ did away with the "shedding of blood".Are you a
Christian?FYI - Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith ate meat less than
"a dozen times". His wife said made a slice of ham at Christmas over his
80-something years. He said he intended to obey the Word of Wisdom....ALL of
it.Redshirt1701But is also says "SPARINGLY".The
dictionary defines the word "sparingly" - not as "moderately" or
"casually" but as in "times of an emergency".Do you drive
on a "spare" tire daily? NO!USE and SPARINGLY.Read the words, and stop selective listening to twist and fit an agenda or
rationizing some sort of guilt.You can either choose to obey, or
not.I'm not going to force anything, let alone pass legislation
To "Owen" nice try, but you failed to address D&C 49:18-19 which is
very clear that anybody who tells you to no eat meat is wrong.The
ironic thing about the people like the letter writer is that the lifestyle they
promote kills a lot of animals too. The only difference is that the animals
killed are wild animals. See "Veganism Is Murder " at National Review
Online. Or read "The Number of Animals Killed to Produce One Million
Calories in Eight Food Categories" at Animal Visuals. Another article is
"Researcher: Vegetarian Diet Kills Animals Too" at ABC News.What about all the bugs killed with pesticides? Isn't that murder too?
I agree with being fur free!!!!
I wonder what makes some people experts on there interpertation of scripture.
Never mind leaders of the church enjoy a steak from time to time at the 4th of
July. And for those manipulators Joseph Fielding Smith was not a vegetarian.
Joseph B Wirthlin owned some type of meat company. LDS Vegans wish the church
cared as much about Bambi and Bessie and Queen Nectar as they do.
Humans killing animals for survival mirrors what happens all the time in the
Nice try Redshirt. Conveniently leaving out Gen 9:11 "And surely, blood
shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every
beast will I require at your hands." (JST)Some of us have
promised to live within bounds. In the case of both D&C 89 and Genesis the
bounds are if you are starving to death. In other words, if animal
slaughter is a necessary evil, it is evil unless absolutely necessary.
only fertilized eggs can hatch into chickens. Leather can be used after a cow
is slaughtered for food. Much of the nutrients we eat comes from Meat. What
did Adam do with the animals he sacrificed? I am sure ate the meat. I enjoy my
meat and will wear what I want thank you.murder is the unlawful
killing of a human being. Animals only care about food are not capable of
conscience and are here to feed and clothe us.
We argue ourselves into some pretty interesting spots. We kill cows, chickens
and pigs by the millions for food, but get apoplectic if horses are included.
Other cultures bring quite a variety of other species into play. I'm not
sure what the answer is. I suspect most poeple have no idea what it takes to put
a high protein diet on our plates. I do, and I'm OK with it.
Redshirt1701Deep Space 9, UtTo "Open Minded Mormon" I want
to one up you. D&C 49:1919 For, behold, the beasts of the field and
the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the
use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in
abundance."1:23 p.m. Nov. 28, 2012============ the key word is USE ...What do you say we re-read that again together --
"...is ordained for the USE of man for food and for
raiment,"We don't need to kill a chicken to USE the
eggs,We don't need to kill a cow to USE the milk,We don't
need to kill a sheep to USE the wool, and our underclothes are made
of cotton and sythetic fibers, not coats of skins.
I don't think Open Minded Mormon read the 49th section of the Doctrine and
Covenants. LDS vegans are good at twisting the D and C and other scriptures to
fit there agenda.
Abbey,Congratulations on your awareness.How far are you willing to
extend your ban on "killing" what nature produces?Send your
letter to the Tribune, you will likely find more sympathy among their readers.
Way to speak out! It's nice to see someone who cares about something bigger
than themselves :) And very well said, too!
Murder is person killing person. Animals are not people.
To "Open Minded Mormon" I want to one up you. D&C 49:18-19 "18
And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is
not ordained of God;19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the
fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of
man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance."Or Genesis 9:3-4 "3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you;
even as the green herb have I given you all things.4 But flesh with the
life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat." (have your
steak, but make sure it is kosher.)Apparently we were given critters
to fill our bellies with and to cloth our boddies with.
Slaughtervs. Murder-- not the same thing.But
I'm no lawyer.
What happens to the goose whose down keeps me warm, when I lower the furnace to
keep the environment cleaner? And even when I wear my Mink Jacket, I
think it is much more useful and fulfilling of the life of that mink, than being
a fur ball in some predator's belly.
I know that the cattle killed locally for meat are treated very humanely by our
farmers. Letter writer is throwing out a bunch of assumptions and propaganda put
forth by PETA. People eating tasty animals. Mmmmm....
I think I just murdered a whole bunch of cotton plants.
When is a murder not a murder? Is it even possible to live without killing
other forms of life?Is it possible to live our lives without using
the commodities brought to us by the struggle and wars that have killed so many
human beings, their children, their pets and those who depended upon them?Is it possible to live without our daily struggle against the rodents,
and other animal carrying germs, insects and bugs? Even a grain of
wheat has the potential to grow and perpetuate it’s species if left alone
and not be pulverized into bread. The Commandment Thou shall not
kill sets before us an impossible task.
Native Americans used all of the buffalo that they killed for food. I eat meat
and have no problem with using leather for clothing. I feel it is a waste to
kill a cow for food and not use the skins for clothing. Let's make certain
we don't waste the gifts that God has given to us.
Kalindra,Very well said. Thank you.
Had a hamburger for dinner yesterday, bacon for breakfast this morning.
Philosophically, I'm sympathetic to your cause; your hyperbolic rhetorical
excesses aren't helping. Sure, we probably should eat less meat, but when
you accuse more Americans of murder, I'm more likely to respond with
laughter than agreement.
higvDietrich, IDAnimals are here for us to give us food and clothing
in abundance.MountanmanHayden, IDthe Lord made clothing
for Adam and Eve out of animal skins when they were cast out of the Garden of
Eden. Take up your concerns with Him on this issue because for the rest of us,
it is a non-issue!=============== More false Mormon
Doctrine spread.Once again coming from the same
uber-far-right-wingers...God never said in "abundance"!D&C 8912 ....nevertheless they are to be used SPARINGLY; 13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should NOT be used, only in
times of winter, or of cold, or FAMINE. 15 And these hath God made
for the use of man ONLY in times of famine and excess of hunger.I'll bet my last dollar both of you could stand to loose a few extra
pounds...You're bot breaking the Word of Wisdom, and it
has nothing to do with the great debate about Diet Cokes.
Gratuitous cruelty to animals is never in style, but your argument demonstrates
that fur is not the only fringe element in our society. You have also made a new
definition for the word murder. Such hyperbole does your cause no good.
Abbey does point out some dubious ways animals are treated. Sometimes
“efficiency” and profits trump more humane procedures. That said, I
wish I had an egg and ham breakfast waiting for me this morning.
It is not just that our own skins don't keep us warm "anymore" -
the skin of Homo sapiens has never been sufficient protection against the
elements. To say "use your own skin" is to provide no real solution to a
very real problem and places your concern for some animals above your concern
for other animals - the human animal can freeze and suffer as long as that means
these other animals are spared is a very hypocritical argument and removes any
moral high ground you may think you possess. Wearing fur is not
murder. Although the animals may be abused and tortured (practices that should
be stopped) and eventually killed, the killing of them does not meet the current
definition of murder - and the wearing of the skin of a dead animal, is most
definitely not an act of murder. Hyperbolic letters such as this
have been proven highly ineffective in convincing people to change behavior.
Your lack of a reasoned argument and alternative is sophomoric and does nothing
to further your cause.
If you don't want to use leather or fur, don't! Problem solved. For
the rest of us, the Lord made clothing for Adam and Eve out of animal skins when
they were cast out of the Garden of Eden. Take up your concerns with Him on this
issue because for the rest of us, it is a non-issue!
While my thoughts are not as extreme there is a huge difference between people
killing an animal for food and using everything including the hide as clothing
and the deplorable practices of today where everything is wasted except the
hide.Especially when it's just not necessary. We have plenty of
other choices now and we should be moving towards less use of animals.
Animals are here for us to give us food and clothing in abundance. They are to
be used and I will use those things to keep me warm. And eat animals as well as
well as there products. People may use the misguided concern for animals to
control human lives.
Right, Abbey. Let's all go barefoot. Or we can substitute shoes made of
recycled tires or plastic. What a boon to the petroleum industry.And ban
footballs made of real pigskin. No more leather upholstery in your living
room or car.Something tells me you are also vegan, right?