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Comments about ‘Letter: Today's civil war: Our country has overcome even larger challenges in the past’

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Published: Tuesday, Nov. 27 2012 12:00 a.m. MST

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Curmudgeon
Salt Lake City, UT

Those who signed secession petitions are no more than whining, petulant children who promise to hold their breath until they get their way. I doubt that any of them have thought through the consequences of really trying to secede, nor do they understand the concept of sedition. Their venting is best ignored, lest they think anyone is paying serious attention to their rant.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Amen and amen.

Baron Scarpia
Logan, UT

"If the Civil War was waged to keep slave-holders part of the Union, surely we should not divide our nation over a few Obama supporters."

Funny statement, since it is the "fewer Romney supporters" who are talking about leaving the union.

Regarding the Civil War, it should be noted too that the "slave-holders" were the wealthy white males who wanted to keep the status quo, despite the moral problems with their way of life and a changing world filled with technological change, scientific enlightenment, and progressive thinkng.

Many parallels today with how the conservative wealthy male Romney-supporters want to keep the status quo of Bush-era tax cuts and free-wheeling, non-regulated business dealings and a fossil-fuel based economy in an era of a changing demographics of diversity, advanced social media and technological living, mounting scientific evidence of climate change, economic/military hardships associated with oil, and states inceasingly acquiring renewable energy to power their communities and economies (think Texas, Iowa, Colorado).

I've heard some commentators describe it that the GOP are "Mad Men" characteres living in a "Modern Family" world.

Ranch
Here, UT

I thought it was a few Romney supporters pushing to leave the union.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

"If the Civil War was waged to keep slave-holders part of the Union, surely we should not divide our nation over a few Obama supporters."

=============

I agreed with everything in the letter until I read this one line.

It was ROMNEY supporters who signed Secession petions.

And those FEW Obama supporters? Hello - that was the MAJORITY!

Nice try at spinning facts and reality.

Meanwhile - Let's compare reality.

Pres. Obama wants to simply let Bush ear tax cuts lapse, and they scream bloody murder.

Yet these same conservative worship Abraham Lincoln, the ultimate Liberal.

Who without Congressional approval, and with the simple stroke of his pen signs the
"Emancipation Proclamation" and strips away people's "property" and Frees the Slaves.

It amazes me how confused, twisted, and disconnected from reality Tea-Partiers have become.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

We're just grumpy, and a little selfish right now.

red state pride
Cottonwood Heights, UT

"Don't boo- go vote. Vote for revenge". - President Barack Obama "They're gonna put ya'll back in chains"- Vice President Joe Biden.
The Obama administration spent 3 years dividing citizen against citizen with class warfare, the alleged war on women etc. They passed the ACA that the American public was overwhelmingly opposed to without a single vote from the opposition party- the largest piece of legislation ever passed without support from both parties.
And yet, people on the right are considered kooks because they don't feel like they are part of this country anymore. It's an upside down world.

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT

Fine letter. I would add that Spielberg's wonderful Lincoln film shows the importance of politics, of political maneuvering and at times, ever, compromise.

Moderate
Salt Lake City, UT

"Abraham Lincoln, preserved the Union by ending the Civil War."
I wish they still taught history in school. Abraham Lincoln preserved the nation by GOING to war. When southern rebels attacked the nation, Lincoln struck back. He didn't wave a white flag to preserve the union.

Most who "signed" an online secession petition did so as a joke. They don't have the spine to actually secede. Its just like those people who protest against a new Wal-Mart swearing "I'll never shop there", but are first in line on opening day to take advantage of good prices.

The Real Maverick
Orem, UT

You can see more and more that repubs are willing to drop our country off the fiscal cliff in order to prevent a small tax increase on their rich puppet masters from going through.

Sad.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Eric Samuelsen
Provo, UT
Fine letter. I would add that Spielberg's wonderful Lincoln film shows the importance of politics, of political maneuvering and at times, ever, compromise.

10:29 a.m. Nov. 27, 2012

=============

Agreed!

Lincoln even selected a Democrat - from the South! to be his running mate his 2nd term in office.

Talk about compromising.
Imagine, putting party politics aside,
offering that level of olive branch for peace and healing a torn nation -- the #2 man in America -- A Democrat from the South.

Oath to the Constitution?
Sworn to the citizens?
Representative to whom?

Today's Republicans have a signed pledge to Grover Norquist.
A non-elected, random no-body lobbyist.

Lincoln must be spinning is his grave.

VST
Bountiful, UT

This whole issue, and the ensuing discussion, is nothing more than "…much ado about nothing!"

A message to the secessionists and the reactionaries – save your energy.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

Why does this always get compared to the Civil war. Do the liberals and their ilk not realize that what the people who signed the secession petition can also be compared to the revolutionaries who separated the US from oppression by England?

Maybe some of the leaders in the secession movement are modern day Geroge Washingtons?

You do realize that the only difference between the south in the Civil War and 13 colonies was the simple fact that the colonies won.

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

@RedShirt,
if the parellels you draw from those two wars lead you to believe the only difference was the winners, you should re-read history, as its never that simple. You sound like you want to be part of the secession, why?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut
Do the liberals and their ilk not realize that what the people who signed the secession petition can also be compared to the revolutionaries who separated the US from oppression by England?

===========

Bahaha!

RedShirt - you are always good for a good 'ol laugh!

Let me makes this perfectely clear ---

The signers of the Declation of Independance and the Confederacy were not throwing a hissy fit because their guy lost an election,
and a Session letter in NOT simply signing a protest letter.

They knew it they'd be HUNG for treason for what they were doing.
They knew they were traitors to their nation.

Is that really what you want?
Is that really how you feel?
Is that really what you are?
-- a traitor?

Nothing could be further from reality than having Mitt Romney loosing and having to:

paying 50% in taxes to a King to pay for HIS foreign wars,
forced to quaurter Soldiers in your private residence,
not have any Representation in Government because you are Colonist, and not "really" a citizen.

I'll remind you yet again - Lucifer and his followers were not cast out for their plan
- but for their REBELLION.

Capisce?

JoeCapitalist2
Orem, UT

If we keep going in the direction we are heading as a nation, then there will inevitably be a secession movement. Only it will probably be a quiet one without a civil war or a declaration of independence.

It will be when the top 10% decide it just isn't worth the hassle any more and quit pulling the wagon that too many people have hopped on for a free ride. Our country has been the greatest on Earth because millions of enterprising individuals took great personal and financial risks to try and realize the American Dream. The driving force behind those risks were the substantial rewards that accompanied success.

Take away all the rewards and too many people will simply stop creating businesses, hiring new workers, and inventing lots of cool gadgets. There will certainly be less "wealth inequality", but everyone will just be a little poorer than now.

Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

To "LDS Liberal" again, your lack of understanding is overwhelming.

The Declation of Independance and the Confederacy were in fact "throwing a hissy fit", as I stated before, against policies that they did not agree with.

The American citizens were in fact "paying 50% in taxes to a King to pay for HIS foreign wars" since the UK was involved with 3 other conflicts at the same time that the US revolution was beginning.

Also, they people are not wanting to seceed because Romney lost. They want to seceed because of Obama policies that are eroding our freedoms and destroying the US economy.

What does Lucifer losing the war in heaven have to do with the civil war or the Revolutionary war? Also, according to the LDS church doctrine, Lucifer was cast out because he lost the war. Lucifer wanted to gain power for his own purposes and eliminating freedom with the promise that he "will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost." Sure sounds a lot like the promises of socialism.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

To Redshirt1701
Deep Space 9, Ut

...again, your lack of understanding is overwhelming.

LDS topical guide:

Satan - As a result of this rebellion, Satan and his followers were cut off from God’s presence.

Devil - However, he rebelled in the premortal life and persuaded a third part of the spirit children of the Father to rebel with him (D&C 29: 36; Moses 4: 1-4; Abr. 3: 27-28). They were cast out of heaven

Moses - Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me...I caused that he should be cast down;

Thou art Lucifer, he who was cast out of Father's presence for ....(here it is again) rebellion.

=================

BTW - passing laws "Forcing" people to Choose the Right always, taking away their Free Agency was prcesiely Lucifier's plan. Why do you promote such blasphemy?

I'm Liberal because I'm Mormon, not in spite of it.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

Last night I listened to Warren Buffett on Charlie Rose. I am a socialist, but I have to point out what a breath of fresh air Buffett is. Buffett doesn't know much about socialism, but he understands contemporary capitalism - and a whole lot better than the crackpot wing of the GOP.

red state pride
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@ marxist- Warren Buffett is channelling as much of his money as he can into a charitable foundation as fast as he can so the Government can't get it's thieving hands on it. One of Warren Buffett's many corporations is in an ongoing dispute with the IRS over unpaid back taxes. Warren Buffett has never paid one thin dime to the IRS over and above what he is legally obligated to pay. Warren Buffett is one of the many rich Democrats who don't want anyone else to get rich. So if it's all the same to you then pardon me if I don't treat Warren Buffett like Moses coming down from the mountaintop. I am so tired of hearing about what Warren Buffett thinks. Who cares what he thinks? He puts his pants on one leg at a time just like me- unlike me he just makes millions of dollars after getting dressed and then stiffs the IRS. Contemporary capitalism? I think you mean crony capitalism.

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