Published: Sunday, Nov. 25 2012 12:00 a.m. MST
When it comes to the debate of freedom vs. security, President Obama and Mitt
Romney actually believe many of the same things. Both support the Patriot Act
and the NDAA, laws that give the the government more power, but deeply concern
those of us who worry about things like searches without warrants and arrests
without charges or a trial. Both think (or thought at one time) that an
individual mandate is a good idea, they just disagree on the level of government
that should apply it. Both were supportive of the bailout of the banks under
President Bush and the stimulus plan under President Obama. The difference
between the candidate who wanted a 35% tax rate on the richest Americans and the
candidate that wanted a 39% rate on that group is not as great as some of us
think it is. This was not an election involving diametrically opposed views for
America. To have one of those, we would need a Ron Paul/Bernie Sanders
match-up. As it was, we got a center left Democrat and a moderate, center-right
Republican who actually believe many of the same things about what government
“...and to strive to decrease the national debt.” per Joyce
EricksonA major “plank” in Mr. Romney's
“platform” was to have a substantial increase in military
spending.The best way to pay for these additional expensive and
“free” munitions and delivery systems was tax cuts per the gentleman
from Massachusetts. No additional public debt in sight here.
The difference between the two sides was nowhere near as stark as the author
proclaims. Federal spending under President Obama right now is 23% of GDP.
Romney pledged to cut it to 20%. 3% of GDP is not the difference between a
"European Social Welfare State" and unbridled free market capitalism.
Had that really been the choice, the debate would have been over spending at 35%
of GDP versus spending at 12% of GDP.
This letter is complete nonsense.Joyce, your candidate lost because
he failed to offer a believable, clear vision for building a better American
future. He lied constantly. He was evasive about how his economic plan would
be paid for. He switched positions on important issues so fast people's
heads were spinning. He was staggeringly out of touch with the issues effecting
poor people, women and minorities.But he was the best that the GOP
could offer, and it wasn't enough. Get over it. Look, we coped
with George W. Bush's reelection - you can cope with Obama's
America has matured a bit. And nobody made any commitments to, nor has
expectations of, 'free' anything.
You can always tell who gets their information (only) from foxnews and AM radio.
I can't even begin to count how many times claims like, "free
abortion" and "free phones" have been debunked.I'm
waiting for a repub to actually explain to me what specific freedoms they have
lost under Obama and not just these made up ones listed in this letter. Thus proving that you can bring a dumb horse to water but you cannot force it
This letter is pure, unadulterated nonsense.
Romney wanted to give more tax breaks to the wealthy, which, so far hasn't
created any jobs. He wanted to deny equal treatment to GLBT Americans. Every
statement he made was subsequently refuted by his handlers (sometimes only
minutes later). The man had no honesty, no integrity and hides his money
overseas.I voted for Obama and it wasn't for the
"freebies", Joyce. It was because he was by far the better candidate.
The attitude displayed in this letter is exactly why the GOP is becoming less
and less relevant. You folks are a dying breed. Keep this up and you'll
lose again in 2016!
Dear Joyce, I am not promised free anything. I will have to pay for my
healthcare, I will have to pay for my retirement, I still have to work to feed
my family, I will have to follow the same laws you do and others have for many
years before this President. You and I will have the same freedoms we had before
Obama. Please, if you are going to wail, whine, and give way to gnashing of
teeth do it in Nunovit. Naysaying without cause is not an admirable trait.
I still have the same economic freedoms I had twenty years ago. As far as
healthcare goes I think congress should repeal the law that states hospitals
must treat and stabilize you without regards to payment. Maybe if someone's
family died they would be more compassionate to the less fortunate.
Freedom is having the ability, the time and the permission to do the things you
want to do. Freedom is the bi-product of security. Not the other
way around. The jungle has nearly unlimited freedom but very little
security. Civilization by it’s laws and regulation make freedom possible
by giving people security.
You wonder why Romney lost..47% of Americans believed the total falsehoods
contained in this letter. There is no free health care, no free abortions, no
free retirement, no free student loans etc. etc. The real kicker that tells you
someone is a blinded ideologue is the free cell phone rant. The good news is
that 53% didn't believe this junk. Freedom versus opportunity,
baloney..tell me in four years lady how much more unfree you are.
The problem with all of these letters that spout moral platitudes and how we
have "surrendered" this or that noble cause or doctrine is that they all
sound like they are trying to make the winners feel as bad as they do by
reframing what happened in the voting. The core problem here is that all of
these high sounding moral platitudes are being written about politics! Rarely in
the course of human events have morality and politics met. If you doubt my
statement, watch closely as the sausage is being made in dealing with the fiscal
The best thing about freedom is can just cut all my worker's wages, gut
their healthcare and retirement, and fire half of them between cyber monday and
Christmas Eve (happy holidays moochers), then double my salary. Now gimme my tax
What I get a kick of is where were all these right wingers' concerns over
freedom when they let their President run rough shot over the Constitution with
NCLB and the Patriot Act? People like Joyce have proven over the
past few years that they were ok with massive deficits, unConstitutional Acts,
and losses of freedoms just as long as it is THEIR leaders/party doing it. But
as soon as it is the Democrats, then they all of a sudden wrap themselves with
this "phony" concern over the country. That's the
problem with you folks. You don't have any credibility. Had Joyce voiced
these concerns when Bush was President, then I think most of us might take
notice and believe in her concerns. Instead, we know that she along with the
other losers from her party, are merely just playing the obstructionist party
games that we have all become accustomed to over the past few years.
It certainly feels free, when it comes from the government, and you
generally expect and are taught that the rich and corporations or someone else
will pay for it.When half the country is not paying taxes or get
more back than they paid in, and they have been taught they are entitled.Socialist have been taught the government (sometime phrased as
"society") will take care of them and that society must do it for
them.and all they have to do is give up a little freedom here or
there, give up a little choice here or there, give up a little control here or
there, and live with a little more regulation here or there.No one
notice these little bits, as the left keep telling everyone what freedom have
you lost? That is repeated all the time on these forums by the left.Why does anyone want a big leftest government controlling and managing and
dictating every aspect of there lives? For what? a few food stamps? government
housing? a good feeling at the airport? an obamaphone?True Freedom
seems to be worth very little to the left.Obama Clause has come to
Typical Republican rant -- FREE is all about materialism, not about
idealism.Tell us Joyce, What FREEDOM did you loose?Speech, Press, Religion, Right to bare arms, ect.In the Limbaugh/Hannity/Beck mind, Freedom is all about having money.As The Real Maverick alreeady pointed out, if it's FREEDOM
and the Constitution you are really worried about -- Where were you when
GW Bush run rough shot over the Constitution with NCLB and the Patriot Act? You see -- You don't know what freedom is, and is not.Good evening.
To "RanchHand" once again, you and your ilk are wrong. Romney wanted to
cut tax rates and eliminate deductions. The elimination of deductions will in
effect raise taxes on the rich because they can't deduct as much as they
had before.To "LDS Liberal" if Bush and his policies were so
evil, what has changed under Obama? He made the Patriot act permanent, signed a
law to allow the indefinate detention of US citizens, and has taken nearly all
of Bush's policies and made them bigger and more expensive.So,
if Bush and his policies are so wrong, why is Obama good for making those same
policies bigger and more expansive?
What freedoms have we lost? The freedom to get on an airplane without being
sexually molested and patted down like inmates. Our 4th-6th amendment rights
through things that both Bush and Obama have done. People wonder why I'm
called Anti-Bush/Obama, that is the reason why.
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