What values are most important in a home? Do we teach our children to be
popular or do we teach them of their true worth? What is the real cost of
"popularity"? What is paid? What is lost.What happens if
someone gains the whole world but loses his soul?
@Blue:"Is it moral for a 21st century society that prizes respect for
the rights of the individual and fairness to embrace Bronze Age mythology as the
source of its guiding principles . . . " Re-read your post, your prejudices
are poking through.You said that we like the clocks to move forward?
I agree. But which way is forward? When Europeans got into slavery in a big
way in the 1500's they felt that it was economic progress to bring order to
the New World. When Southern legislatures created Jim Crow laws in the
1890's they probably felt that it was progress to create their view of an
ordered, civilized society.
@Blue: "We live in the real world, where our clocks run only in one
direction, forward, and we like it that way." Absolutely. But which way is
forward? I presume that when Europeans really got into slavery in a big way
that they viewed economic progress as moving forward. When legislature in the
South created Jim Crow laws in the 1890's did they believe that segregation
was part of a civilized progress?
"We must turn back the clock and demand a moral society."I've just got to respond to this kind of chest thumping about
morality.Turn back the clock? What, you miss the Dark Ages?Is it moral for a 21st century society that prizes respect for the
rights of the individual and fairness to embrace Bronze Age mythology as the
source of its guiding principles - even when there is zero objective evidence to
support the moral utility of these myths, and abundant objective evidence to the
contrary?I would argue that the answer is a resounding
"no."Or do you seriously believe that the cruelty, misogyny
and demonstrable nonsense that saturates the foundations of most world religions
have anything useful to contribute to a sane and just society?I had
a joy-filled Thanksgiving with my family today. We didn't pray, but we did
share with each other the things in our lives for which we are most grateful.
High on that list was the accelerating decline of religiosity in the civilized
world.We live in the real world, where our clocks run only in one
direction, forward, and we like it that way.
"We must turn back the clock and demand a moral society."What does a "moral society" even mean? You seem to think that it
existed in the past.I think we could easily agree on much. Murder
and stealing are wrong.But, how about drinking coffee? How about
golfing on Sunday?There are a lot of things that you JCS would find
immoral, and I see nothing wrong with.Where to draw the line? Your
line is totally unacceptable to me (as I am confident that mine is to you.)However, you want to "demand a moral society". You want me to
live by your rules. As far as I am concerned, you can do what you
want. I have no desire to impart my morals on you.
It is realized that some of these ills I spoke about above still exist. But in
this case it is not SANCTIONED by the government. It is viewed as so
uncivilized that it is outlawed. Sex slavery exists certainly but the vast, vast
majority abhor it so much that it is completely underground. Could we say that
in the days of the Roman Empire where people were bought and sold like cattle?
But there was a time when our own government allowed by law slavery and the
slave trade. Our nation by law didn't allow women to vote. Sexual
discrimination and harassment in the work place was rampant and women had no
recourse. Are things perfect? Heavens NO! But we don't live in
the world of Charles Dickens where children worked in the factories for pennies,
where women were locked in a skyscrapers to work in textile factories and the
building burns down killing hundreds of workers. We have laws that prevent that
sort of thing and our society has changed for the better. And in many cases
young people have taken the lead in making this progress happen in both action
Just because people have different morals than you, does not mean they are
amoral or immoral. Parents who involve their children in beauty
pageants and sports and such do not do it to take advantage of their children or
exploit them - they do it so they can offer their children a better life or the
path to a better life.(If anyone is exploiting the children it is
those who give any notice to the pageants and the TV shows - including the
producers of the shows who encourage the negative behaviors.)There
are a great many behaviors that are moral, immoral, and amoral all at the same
time - it depends on the perspectives of the actors and the observers. It can
be argued that this letter is every bit as immoral as the negative behaviors it
points out. But it is not my job to make that determination.
Another sign of the times. The Apocalypse will occur any day now, just like the
last 2,000 years....any day now.
"We try to feed our homeless, we don't have Slavery, . . . and rampant
sexism has decreased" We have homeless when before the 1980's we
didn't have homeless and we still have slavery and a lot of it is sex
slavery so rampant sexism has increased. There are paradoxes in our society
about sexism. References to legitimiate rape are condemned but I read the week
after the election that the costumes for some NBA cheerleaders are becoming
skimpier. Maybe it was in that particular market, but women are increasingly
objectified as sex objects and that is what this letter is objecting too.
For someone who uses Charity as a middle name, there seems to be very little of
it in his writings.
I think we have made progress. We try to feed our homeless, we don't have
Slavery, we have made efforts to integrate our schools, women have the vote and
rampant sexism has decreased. Our young people are more tolerant, giving and
civic minded then past generations. Sorry JCS, we have moved forward, just
maybe not your direction...
C'mon, Elmary, these kids are learning grace. If you wait until 16 or even
12 you're too late.
Let's salute JCS for, though still throwing out gratuitous insults, finding
someone to dis OTHER than "liberals". In addition, he declined to call
for changes to the Constitution. ON the other hand, it's still morning.
This letter is absolutely correct. We live in an amoral society in which the
majority of the public behaves with no more decorum or restraint than a bunch of
excited rabbits on a Spring day.The primary cause of this disgusting
degeneration of morals is the modern entertainment industry. Indeed, modern
Hollywood portrays sex as a purely recreational activity that can and should be
engaged in at any time with any person.As noted above, the secondary
cause is the complete abdication of parental duties by younger parents. These
so-called parents have failed to impose restraint or discipline, and as a
result, the children are no different in morality than a pack of feral cats.We must turn back the clock and demand a moral society. We cannot afford
to maintain the current course.
We have access to more information, so it may appear there is less moral
consciousness. But you will find what you look for. Seek after good things.
Set the example. I see ample moral consciousness, and it gives me hope for my
children. If I choose to find depravity and evil, I'm sure its right
around the corner if I want to seek it out.
I agree, the past two generations of parents have been less than stellar pushing
their kids to sick levels in youth sports and beauty contests. And that is the
parents that show some interests in their children as thousands don't. So
I don't know which is worse.But don't fret, much of our
youth is civic minded, more tolerant of others than the most recent generations
ahead of them. Provo HS, for example, gathered around 40,000 cans and donated
them to a food bank. If you look closely, much of our youth isn't lazy or
stupid or other labels castigated by those of the older generation, many of them
post here on a regular basis. Instead our youth are doing amazing things.Why I bring this up is that in many cases our children are leading the
way in spite of the upbringing they receive. And it seems we live in extremes
of hyper parenting overall neglect.And by the way, read the story on
youth sports, it is a different side of the same coin perhaps...