Comments about ‘Doug Robinson: Secede from the U.S.? Maybe not the greatest idea’

From article: "Secession? Maybe they should rethink this. Next thing you know Idaho will be calling us crackpots. Now that would hurt."

I loved that one :)

"A lot of people think that the U.S. under Obama is a place to flee. The trouble is, in thousands of years of civilization, nobody has come up with anything better than the USA."
Which USA? The new one that Obama has created (fundamentally transformed) or the free, financially stable country it used to be? Romney promised jobs and Obama promised more free stuff. 3.5 million more voters voted for more free stuff. Now the vexing question is, how are the rest of us going to pay for it"?

No one I personally know here in Utah, voted for Romney.

Yes, we are the 24.9%. We are the true taxpayers, with small families, low/no mortgages, high incomes and therefore subsidize the larger families and corporate religions of Utah.

I hope that ALL Utahns who claim that Obama put us in debt, are just joking. Either that, or they seriously do not understand the underpinnings of our national debt (two unfunded wars, Medicare Part D, a financial crash in 2008 that cut revenues, tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts).

Since 2000, we have run the US like a family....who went out and bought a McMansion, two new cars and a big fishing boat, and then the wife quit her job and had sextuplets.

How about some PERSONAL responsibility, Utahns? You don't know what "socialism" means, because you embrace Social Security, Medicare, VA benefits, Tri-Care, Medicaid, government retirement, state retirement .... and more. It's like my cousin (who'd just had two knee replacements courtesy of Medicare) saying we should do away with Medicare.

How about this, Utahns: how about we start PAYING for what our country provides. Yes, pay for it. That means REVENUE.

Mountanman: Care to delineate what has fundamentally transformed or changed under Obama?

@ xscribe. Not a problem. How about the entitlement society that America has become? 49 million Americans on food stamps and growing every day! Our grandparents believed it was a disgrace to receive something they didn't earn. How about the $16.2 trillion national debt to which Obamacare is projected to add another $2.1 trillion each year? Weren't told it wasn't a tax and would lower the cost of medical treatment? How about Bengazi, fast and furious and the White House leaks, all conveniently swept under the Obama rug or by "executive order". How about the fact that unemployment is on the increase, again? How about the fact that the average net worth of every American has declined by about 40% since Obama took office? The stock market is dropping because businesses and industry know they can't succeed under Obama's anti-business policies. Energy prices have doubled under Obama. Are these not "fundamental changes" Obama has implemented in America? How will we survive them 4 more years. And before you say, its all GWB's fault, yeah we have all heard that before too!

Modern Ultra-Conservatives, just don't know when to quit...

1st it was they were just Anti-Obama,
Then their hatred grew into Anti-Federal Government,
Now, it's festered into "We want to secede" Anti-American.

I know a traitor when I see them.

And they call themselves the TRUE Patriots - nothing could be further from the truth.

Those are not policy changes. Give me some policy changes that Obama has made. I'll give you Obamacare; that is a policy change under Obama. What you need to delineate are fundamental policy changes that have been put in place under the Obama administration, not what is projected and not what might have happened anyway under any other president. Give us some substantive policy changes that Obama has put into place!

And let's take you post one by one. Entitlements: How long has America had entitlements? Not a fundamental change.

National debt: America has been in debt since practically its inception, and I would venture to guess that we will have debt, whether a republican or democrat is in office, forever! Not a fundamental change!

White House secrecy: Really? No president before Obama has ever had issues with this point!

Unemployment: Went up under Bush. I'm not placing blame on Bush, just pointing out the fact that unemployment started going up under Bush. Has also gone up on other presidents. Not a fundamental change!

Net worth did decline, due to he recession, but has also gone back up, correct?

Mentioning the stock market at this point is so lame, we'll leave that one alone.

Which energy prices have doubled? All of them? Oil is trading at $85 a barrel, yet gas is still over $3. Explain how Obama controls that. No fundamental policy change there!

As far as surviving four more years, I'll bet you every last cent I have that we survive the next four years.

In short, where are the policy changes?

North Korea..er..I mean America. Has turned their backs on the constiution over the course of the last 100 years hence the reason for my wanting to scuceed. I have been spiritually prepared for this for a long time. They can call me a terrorist, traitor, blah blah blah etc etc. But if they kill me for this, i'm prepared for it.

We can take the constiution and decalration of independence with us to the new America seeing as how this one only pays them lips service and really doesn't use them any more.

You guys can keeps your GMO's, Planned Parenthood, War on terror, patriot act, NDAA, TSA, Guantanimo Bay, Fema Camps, Tap water, Racism, Race Baiting, Islamophobia, Pornography, Hollywood, Checkpoints, U.N., DHS, ATF, CIA, welfare, socialism,taxation, hatred of entreprenuership, hatred of prosperity, hatred of work, national debt, here in the corrupt and once free country .

King George, whereever he is, must be laughing his head off because this country has become the very thing it rebelled against back in 1776.

also they can keep Obamacare.

Gordon B. Hinckley said this about why the nephite civilization fell. compare this to now and why this nation is more wicked than they were.

" I know of no other writing which sets forth with such clarity the tragic consequences to societies that follow courses contrary to the commandments of God. Its pages trace the stories of two distinct civilizations that flourished on the Western Hemisphere. Each began as a small nation, its people walking in the fear of the Lord. But with prosperity came growing evils. The people succumbed to the wiles of ambitious and scheming leaders who oppressed them with burdensome taxes, who lulled them with hollow promises, who countenanced and even encouraged loose and lascivious living. These evil schemers led the people into terrible wars that resulted in the death of millions and the final and total extinction of two great civilizations in two different eras."

We have all these problems and more. They didn't have killer chemtrails like we do now.

Th war on drugs is also bad and cancerous to any free society. Also this dangerous loyalty to the President and not the constiution. When we treat the president like a God-King that can do no wrong, it creates bondage and slavery. No matter what side of the political oligarchy you may be on, this loyalist attitude of "It's not bad if my guy does it". is cancerous and dangerous.

Ron Paul has even said that secession is an American principle.

Time to dust off the "America: Love it or leave it" bumper stickers

Doug you are right - we should not secede, we should just continue our long steady decline into european style socialism.

The United States of America is no longer the land of the Free and home of the Brave. It is the land of the Entitlement and home of the Wussies.

@ Anti Bush-Obama: You may want to refresh your memory about what is being talked about and what is meant by the stuff you are quoting and referring to - the problem they faced, the sin they were committing, the teachings of God they had turned away from - were the laws of charity and caring for the poor and the stranger.

Like a kid protecting himself by joining a bully's gang, the DN once again deflects the ridicule of the larger, more perverted Utah periodical by squandering an opportunity to discuss the country's widening cultural and political rift, engaging instead in almost meaningless satire.

-secession means civil war
Yes, if we have tyrannical mass murderers leading the country who find it conscionable to decimate a generation of Americans because they personally feel threatened if everybody doesn't bow to them. There's war if, and only if, the old country marches in and slaughters its seceding brethren.

-nobody can improve on America
Should've told liberals and Obama voters, who thought they were "finishing the job" with some great social transformation.

-America is the best because of traditional policies and new toys
Grow up. "Secessionism" is only a rejection of the modern repudiation of those noble traditions, being falsely ascribed here to their repudiators.

-future association problematic
No more so than navigating today's federalism, under our childish president who actually brings lawsuits against states he doesn't like.

Finally, Robinson feigns patriotism, how? By mocking and dismissing the Declaration of Independence... apparently a forfeiture of the "debate".

I wonder if it is some of the same tea-partiers that want to secede that want our students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every day in school...

@ eagle 10:54 a.m. Nov. 22

It probably is. I'd bet its the same faction that is militant about keeping the 'one nation under God' in there as well.

@ Mountainman:

(In short where are the policy changes) You have been ask a question. Are you going to go silent now after you have got on here and bad mouthed Obama like for ever, or are you going to answer it? Either way we all know the answer.

What is going on in politics reminds of a contentious marriage. He said, she said, I am right you are wrong. Neither side wants to compromise or admit they are wrong or made a mistake. Time for America to stop the temper tantrum and grow up. That is all this nonsense about seceding is a temper tantrum over the election. How many have signed the petition, a few hundred thousand out of a population of three hundred million. Not here: I agree with you. Some people act like entitlements began under Obama. Really. Time for mountain man to ante up. Be more specific. How has Obama transformed America. By making it possible for parents to keep their children on their health insurance policy few more years. By reforming health care so more people can purchase health insurance. I am not an Obmaa supporter. I do think many comments on here are a gross exaggeration.

Whenever I see someone smoking I think, "Once Obamacare starts, I will be taxed to pay for health issues associated with your habit even though I don't smoke." The same with health issues related to alcohol abuse, gluttony, drug abuse, sexual promiscuity. The responsible will be forced to pay for the irresponsible while the overall quality of the service for all of us will go down. This is fair? This is an improvement?