mark,Your post exemplifies what is so dangerously wrong with the
left. You vilify the right with a fantasy caricature of how you WANT the right
perceived, i.e. we think those on welfare are "lazy", while carefully
ignoring what the right ACTUALLY believes, i.e. that of course the poor are not
inherently "lazy" but welfare is far too widespread...this is simply
empirical fact. Where in my post did I say the poor are "lazy"? Oh,
wait...I actually said welfare is IMPORTANT, not a refuge for the
"lazy". Saying that those on welfare are an economic drag on society is
NOT the same as saying they are "lazy" or even their fault. Too many of
the poor are there because of leftist policies that have made it more difficult
to rise out of poverty and increasingly easier to remain as government
dependents.And exhibit No. 2 on why leftist governance inevitably
leads to economic malaise: you stubbornly insist on equating gainful employment
with unproductive welfare...as if they were both federal "handouts".
How many states want more unemployed welfare recipients instead of an AFB?
Exactly. Liberal states simply have more welfare recipients than conservative
And Let's forget to factor in the Food Stamps that Wal-Mart workers
recieve.Lazy?Try kept afloat and one week away from starving
by America's tax-payers because of the greed and under-payment and
exploitation from Corporate BILLIOAIRES.
Voice, you miss the point: the money used for those jobs come from taxpayers in
other states subsidizing Utah's economy. Hill provides a strong economic
stimulus for this state. But a higher percentage of tax money that goes into
Hill comes from blue states then from Utahns. We, ultimately are takers in this
state, we are on the "welfare" conservatives get up in arms about. We,
in this state, are the takers. We take more then we give. We have that economic
benifit from Hill AFB because blue states pay for it, "liberal" states
pay for it. That is the hypocrisy of the right. Oh, and as far as
those people that you see as a drain on society, those on welfare (like Utah),
the vast majority of those people are hard workers. Most people, other then the
infirm and the elderly, on public assistance are workers. That is another
despicable lie of the right, that the poor are lazy. Menial labor is hard work
and low pay. The people picking your fruits and vegetables are not paid living
wages, though it is, indeed, hard, hard work.
Must start singing... Oh say can you see? By the doctor's
copay.What so proudly we hailed, was the Twilight's last movie. Whose broad streets and bright cars emit less carbon than cows, O'er our ipads we watched angry birds that are screaming?And the
rockets red glare of the russian-contracted space program,Gave proof
through the night that our brains went overseas.Oh, say does that
tax-laden rich guy still breathe?O'er the land of free stuff that we
tax from the grave!
mark - The point is, of course, that federal employees are actually employed and
so contribute economically in a sustainable way. Nobody in Utah thinks Hill
AFB is a drag on the economy. The size of the welfare state, on the other hand,
is a HUGE drag on the economy because it is evidence of, and an enabler of,
people who are economically dependent and NOT gainfully employed, or at least
underemployed. Surely you understand why it's more relevant to look at the
relative size of the welfare rolls in different states than on the gainfully
employed who sustainably contribute to economic growth.UtahBlueDevil
- Actually, there was a "Utah" long before there was a USA here, as
evidenced by your own post. When the Mormon pioneers arrived in the SL Valley
it was nominally Mexico, not the USA, although realistically it was a sort of
no-man's land between Native American tribes without any sort of organized
Mexican presence. We Mormons were here long before the USA ever
arrived...escaping persecution in the US was the entire reason we LEFT the
country! Trying to say that the federal govt. was here "before Utah"
just betrays ignorance of history.
@ WRX.... you said "The author once had a country where not only the anthem
was to his liking but so was the country. Much of that has disappeared and, with
Obama at the helm,Ok... lets really have your list of how this
nation has changed so radically since Obama became president. Please, a list
- we need to know. This over the top whinny complaining some on
the right is tiring. I don't know if their parents didn't hold them
enough, or perhaps they got used to winning at everything they did.... or that
when they played with other kids, they always had it their way.... but Mr.
Obama, despite what the talk show radio heads and conservative commentators
preach has changed very little. You still worship where you like,
you still work where you like, you buy homes and live where you like, you still
get to go do what ever "fun" activities you like, and you get to
complain all you want - and you all have been doing superb job of that by the
way. Freedom of speech, religion, to bear arms is alive and
well.... but couldn't tell the way you all cary on.
LDS Liberal, What? No you don't! Do you really? That is VERY
cool! Driving on used vegetable oil, geothermal pump! Love it! Go
I kinda like the song the way it is already, thanks.
"Then turn massive amounts of confiscated public lands, over to private (tax
paying)ownership, and the "net tax taker" issue become zero!"Again, really? Confiscated public lands? Who were the lands
confiscated from? Utah wasn't a state when these lands were
"confiscated", so it wasn't Utah's land that was taken.
Perhaps you need to brush up on your western US history, but the territories
were taken from Mexico.... so if they would be returned to anyone.... it would
be Mexico.Is that what you want? Utah was carved out of
federal lands.... they were federal lands way before there was a Utah. Brigham
Young, nor any Governor of the time had any rights to the land. Technically
when Brigham Young and company landed in Salt Lake Valley, these were Mexican
territories. Mexico granted the lands to the US to end a conflict between the
two nations... they didn't grant the lands to the State of Utah - because
it didn't exist.
Well Voice of "Reason", I guess if you only want to look at one area of
Federal spending. . . Not very reasonable though. Just a rightist mistake,
though. When you talk about Federal spending coming into a state you
look at the whole thing, whether Social Security spending, or spending on
Federal workers, which, of course, creates jobs, local spending, and tax
revenues paid for Utahns by the blue states that pay more money then they
receive so we get more money then we pay. It is not reason to think otherwise.
wrzOgden, UTWithout the oil you mentioned, you'd be in a
heap-a pain and anguish... trying to heat your home burning buffalo dung and
riding your horse to work.========I have solar panels
installed on our home, All my light are now either CFL or LED, I'm designing a new alternative energy systym, a sort of Hybrid =>
wind tubine/Hydro-eletric storage system to be installed soon, I
currently heat my home using a geo-thermal heat pump, I grow most of my
own vegatables, year round in a green house, I drive 2 vehicles (Mercedes
Benz) using my own receipe of disgarded straight vegatable oil from resturants
that i get for free.I don't need to kill for oil - God made me
smarter than that.You're the one in trouble my friend.I'm Progressive, and you are not.
Northboundzax, America the Beautiful, is a good choice. And Mr. Gronberg, you
are quite right, that beautiful song you print the lyrics of needs no change at
all. If I had to pick a new Anthem it would be This Land is Your
Land This Land is My LandThis land is your land This land is my
landFrom California to the New York island; From the red wood forest
to the Gulf Stream waters This land was made for you and Me.As
I was walking that ribbon of highway, I saw above me that endless skyway:
I saw below me that golden valley: This land was made for you and
me.I've roamed and rambled and I followed my footsteps To
the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts; And all around me a voice was
sounding: This land was made for you and me.
@Mike in Sandy:"Maybe the author should move to somewhere where there
is an anthem to his liking."The author once had a country where
not only the anthem was to his liking but so was the country. Much of that has
disappeared and, with Obama at the helm, it will likely all disappear soon. As
Thatcher once said: 'welfare (giveaway) is fine until you run outta other
peoples' money.' We have arrived.@LDS Liberal:"For 8 long years I watched in absolute horror as GW Bush and Dick Cheney
single-handedly wiped out 4 generations of American prosperity..."Obama wiped out more than Dubya & Cheney did in just over three years."For 8 long years - as a VETERAN - I was trash talked as being
un-patriotic and un-America because I did not support 2 OFFENSIVE, and un-Funded
foreign wars for oil..."Without the oil you mentioned,
you'd be in a heap-a pain and anguish... trying to heat your home burning
buffalo dung and riding your horse to work."...tell themselves
Obama is destroying America..."Obama isn't doing it alone.
He is merely the instigator, the catalyst.
Kent D.,Actually, Utah is a net BENEFACTOR on federal transfer
payments. You're probably making the leftist mistake of counting all
federal spending...including spending for wages & services rendered to the
federal government, which are not welfare. If you limit it to actual
welfare-type payments, i.e. where the federal government actually takes $ from
some taxpayers and simply gives it to other taxpayers without being earned, then
Utah gets $0.99 back for every dollar it pays in taxes. Welfare programs are
needed, but it's important to clarify Utah's actual position.
Pledge of Allegiance I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.The Pledge
of Allegiance has changed about 4 times. The last time was about 1954 when the
"under God" phrase was added.
And where is that band who so vauntingly sworeThat the havoc of war and
the battle's confusion,A home and a country should leave us no
more!Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.No refuge could save the hireling and slaveFrom the terror of flight, or
the gloom of the grave:And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth
waveO'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall standBetween their loved home
and the war's desolation!Blest with victory and peace, may the
heav'n rescued landPraise the Power that hath made and preserved us a
nation.Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,And this be
our motto: "In God is our trust."And the star-spangled banner in
triumph shall waveO'er the land of the free and the home of the
Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early lightWhat so proudly we
hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?Whose broad stripes and bright
stars thru the perilous fight,O'er the ramparts we watched were so
gallantly streaming?And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in
air,Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.Oh,
say does that star-spangled banner yet waveO'er the land of the free
and the home of the brave?On the shore, dimly seen through the mists
of the deep,Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,As it
fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?Now it catches the gleam of
the morning's first beam,In full glory reflected now shines in the
stream:'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it waveO'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
Utah should secede from the USA and write its own national anthem. We don't
need Obama and his socialist friends.
Perhaps Mr. Wilson would prefer "Deutschland, Deutschland über
alles"?Or maybe he would like some cheese with his
"whine" (pressed from the finest sour grapes in the land!) . . .
The recommended changes in wording do not conform to the musical phrases.By the way, the last comment about "In God We Trust" is not part
of the national anthem.
Let's hope the Deseret News never gives space to this aspiring satirist to
show us what kind of wit he has to for parodying the Lord's Prayer.
@Wonder,No, that isn't the agreement when Utah became a State.
The agreement was that they would do the same here as in every other State to
that point. The Federal government would manage the land temporarily while
trying to sell it off. They simply refused to do what they agreed to do. The
entire basis for the current Utah law seeking the lands is "Breach of
Contract."If you turned something over to another entity under a
contract that they would sell it for you and forward the proceeds, but instead
they held onto it and used if for their own purposes and eventually claimed it
as their own simply because they had if for so long, wouldn't you consider
that a form of "confiscation?"
I want to know what john charity springhas to say about this!
A bit off topic, I know, but for some time I have thought it might be a good
idea to change the national anthem from the Star-Spangled Banner to America the
Beautiful and move the Star Spangled Banner to our military anthem. The Star
Spangled Banner hits some excellent sentiments, but is ultimately a war song and
focuses more on the fight for freedom than on the concept of freedom itself.
That it is about fighting for freedom necessarily engenders an 'us vs
them' attitude. Who us and them are change through time, but to keep a
fight alive means that there must be someone - even if other Americans - that
must be countered. In contrast, America the Beautiful has no inherent
divisiveness and just focuses on the notion that it is great to be an American -
which it is.
Ok Wonder dude lets say your right and I'm wrong, please go on and on some
more telling us what confiscated means. Point being, Utah has massive amounts of
public and even private land, that is locked off from development and tax
generating enterprising, because of the do gooder know it all bureaucracies, and
their laws, that control these things. And they are controlled by the inept,
mind-numbed environuts or anti private enterprise crowd. That issue is a big
factor in the "net taker" argument!
Like I told my tantruming 2 year olds when they didn't get their way;..."the only thing needs to 'Change' here is
someone's bad attitude."Grow-up...for a change.
I'm pretty sure the other guy was offering a shiny new 20% across the board
Taking poor loser and bitter sour grapes to epic heights! Whoever decides what
is an "opinion letter" should screen letters for junior high school
whining. This is equivalent of mooning the third period teacher. The
disillusioned beyond sanity letters are entertaining and do show the extent that
Utah people were hyped up about a guy in the predominate religion.
@Hahahaha -- Those Utah lands weren't confiscated. They were never
Utah's to begin with. Utah agreed that they would remain part of the land
controlled by the federal government when they were granted statehood. Before
that they belonged to the US government as a part of a territory. It's not
like the federal government came in and took the land. You can't take
something away from someone who never had it to begin with. Instead, Utah is
trying to take the federal government's land. Bunch of takers trying to
always take from the rest of us!
Actually the letter writer could just write and use his own version of the Star
Spangled Banner, and make it work any way that fits his desires. After all,
that's what the country and its activist judges have done to the
constitution, reinvent and reinterpret it to make it something other then what
it was written to be. As for Utah being a "net tax taker",
that might be technically factual, but take away the unfunded government
mandates, and union payoffs in government contracting requirements, the Issue
changes a lot. Then turn massive amounts of confiscated public lands, over to
private (tax paying)ownership, and the "net tax taker" issue become
Secession is as American as George Washington and apple pie. it's what
built the country.
What pains me most are Hypocrites.I've listened to these
bafoons and radio clowns go on and on, year after year about how They are
the REAL Americans.How They are the TRUE Patriots, How only They can
be right, and evyone else disagreeing otherwise are wrong,How THEY are the
one trying to save this great nation of ours...For 8 long years I
watched in absolute horror as GW Bush and Dick Cheney single-handedly wiped out
4 generations of American prosperity and didn't say ANYTHING negative about
my country!For 8 long years - as a VETERAN - I was trash talked as being
un-patriotic and un-America because I did not support 2 OFFENSIVE, and un-Funded
foreign wars for oil and didn't not trash talk my country.Pres.
Obama gets easily re-elected - and now those very same so-called,
self-pronounced Patriots, who call themselves the only true Americans, are the ones trash talking America as a whole, tell themselves Obama is
destroying America, that anyone who voted against them NOT an Aemrican,
and NOW - They want to Seceed from the Union.Some
PATRIOTS.Traitors is what I call them.
I find it interesting that the Republicans complain so much about "free
stuff." Utah, for the record, is a net "taker," receiving more money
from the federal government than we pay in taxes. In fact, most of the
"taker" states are red states. Only Texas, with its oil industry, is a
significant exception. Utah and its red sisters rely on economically productive
blue states like New York and Illinois to make all the "free stuff" they
America is becoming a welfare state thanks to the offshore megabanks that have
almost all of our politicans in their pocket.
The anthem is fine whether you're in reality or not.
I think the only "free" stuff John cares about is the free stuff going
to the inner city poor. Of course it's great that the government gives
free stuff to senior citizens and gives businesses subsidies. Those are the
I wonder where John received his anti-American training. Perhaps John’s
father was a businessman. In my school they taught the good things about
What a ridiculous thing to say.Maybe the author should move to somewhere
where there is an anthem to his liking.
wah wah!And letters like these will surely win the GOP more votes in
2016!Keep it up repubs! You're heading further and further into
political irrelevance day by day!
Sarcasm isn't that funny when mixed with sour grapes. Who gets
all this free stuff anyway? All those "free" hover rounds going to
seniors in the t-party? Free Dr visits to the same. Free checks from SS that pay
most of the motor home mortgages in the country? That free stuff?Or
are you upset about the $50 a week in food stamps some low income families get
for their kids? Free crutches for wounded veterans? There is a lot of "free
stuff' going on but you'll have to be more specific which of it you
are upset about.
Looks like we have another sour grape.