Call a spade a spade. Rhetoric is the effective use of language. Demogoguery
is the use of language to inflamce passions and prejudices. I think politicians
(both sides) are prone to demogoguery rather than rhetoric. Voters need to be
aware of the difference and not be influenced by demogoguery.
Ben, you just don't get it. Hyperbole is what conservatives have become!
Do a simple test, watch MSNBC's Rachel Maddow, or Chris Hayes, for 10
minutes, and then turn on ANY of the AM radio conservatives for 10 minutes, and
see what you find. Both sides are partisan, but Rachel, and Chris,
have their charts and graphs, the AM crowd have their over the top fear, and
Jon Huntsman's positions on the issues were generally quite conservative.
The reason he didn't catch on with the Republican primary electorate was
because he sounded too reasonable and to nice. They wanted anger.
Larry: Talk about picking carefully what evidence you present! "Both sides are partisan, but Rachel, and Chris, have their charts
and graphs, the AM crowd have their over the top fear,..." So
exactly how does one show a chart on the radio? Seems like a very unfair
comparison. If you like charts so much, how about one showing 23
million unemployed? I can make a chart to say anything you like, or don't
like.By the way, referring to the radio shows as AM is demagogic,
inferring it is cheap and low quality. I guess the left does it too. (It is on
FM also, by the way)Hooray for all those who prove daily in these
comments that Obamaphones are alive and well in Utah!
Right. The GOP just needs to learn to lie even more sneakily.
To thine own self be true...If you are a duck, you should walk and
quack like a duck. That way, people who want to vote for a goose know that
you're a duck and won't inadvertently vote for a duck.
The GOP needs to re-tool floor-to-ceiling, wall-to-wall.If they
don't, they wont see a Republican president for eons.Romney's
campaign was very poorly handled. He tried to appeal solely to your
grandfather's GOP demographic, and not only did he ignore, but ticked off
women, retirees, gays, straights, students, immigrants, auto workers, small
businesses, medium-sized businesses, the businesses he crumbled, his home state,
his other home state, his veep's home state, lots of other states, unions,
civil unions, the elderly, the young, single parents, teachers......A very
comprehensive botching of the business of a campaign.Romney has no
business anywhere near the White House, and the intelligent voters of this
nation saw through his smokescreens and salesmanship.
I think it will require more than just a change in tone but a tonal shift would
be helpful. The concept of "all anger all the time" is not working (and
shouldn't work). Cool thoughtfulness and a spirit of at least some
bipartisanship should rule the day.
So...essentially you want the GOP to lie to voters? That is the nucleus of your
argument. Don't change what you believe, just don't tell other people
what that is. Or at least sugar-coat it so it sounds far less offensive. And
then put those beliefs into legislation once you are elected and it is too late
for the voters to do anything about it.
Isn't it interesting that the liberal left wants to dictate to the
conservative right how the right should think and how the right should present
itself.The liberal left has enough to worry about. Now they have to
explain how the most liberal President ever elected will provide jobs for
23,000,000 Americans. He put millions on welfare during his first term. What
will he do differently this time? How will he create jobs? What will he change
about his policies? The Democrats won the White House. Let's
see them put Americans back to work.
Mike Richards said: "The Democrats won the White House. Let's see them
put Americans back to work."Romney Said he would need 10 years,
so how many days are you going to give Obama?
This letter brought up some great points."Focus on the problems
and find solutions."Exactly! We've all been waiting for
years for the GOP to finally do this. Instead, they're too busy talking
about rape, Libya, birth certificates, and Big Bird. How many economic plans
could have been created with just half the time and energy spent ranting about
Obama's birth certificate or college transcribes? Yet, the GOP
hasn't changed yet. They are still merely posting rhetoric and not offering
solutions. "Americans are sick of old and tired rhetoric. They
want things fixed."Which is exactly why Obama was reelected. "Isn't it interesting that the liberal left wants to dictate to
the conservative right how the right should think and how the right should
present itself."Isn't it interesting that the wacky right
for years has been describing what the left thinks? Despite never actually doing
research?Here's a tip, the Democrats are winning politically.
It might be worth it to research what they're doing right. Jeez, no wonder why the GOP is so out of touch with this country!
When appealing to the lowest common denominator, you need to get pretty low.
Hence faux news and AM radio exists. A certain percentage of people need to
believe in a boogy man and conspiracy theories, otherwise they won't know
what to be afraid of. Meanwhile life goes on for the rest of us and their
fears never actually become reality.
@ Mav...What the Democrats are doing is being IN clusive, not EX
As I compare two posters here, Twin Lights and Mike Richards, both conservative.
One is willing to make progress, the other stands steadfast, not budging. I find myself agreeing with Twin Lights. I'm not fully conservative, but
I'm not fully liberal either. I need moderation. I needed a 3rd party to
chime in and keep the other two straight. Most of us dont' want to
be angry all the time. And we don't want to be led by extremists. Looks
like most of the country agreed with that by the results of last election.
What was said : "Soften the Political Rhetoric in the GOP"What was
NOT said: "but KEEP the Political Rhetoric in the GOP".Prepare to loose even more elections...
Mike Richards: The budget for welfare today is exactly the same as it was when
Obama entered office. I'm sure you won't believe me so look it up. The
official name of welfare is TANF (Temporary Aid for Needy Families). The budget
for TANF is 16.5 billion, the same as it was when Obama entered office, not even
an increase for inflation or population growth. Whoever told you that "Obama
put millions on welfare" lied to you.Also, the TANF budget only
accounts for about 1/2 of 1% of federal spending.
Americans obviously don't want things fixed. They re-elected Obama. They
apparently want more of the same.
Barack Obama - 62,281,602 Popular Votes (51.4%)Mitt Romney -
58,900,448 Popular Votes (48.6%)TOTALS VOTES - 12,118050 for the two
of themA 3 point spread. I would not call that a landslide for
President Obama.So for those of you that believe you have to change
the GOP's message I would disagree.The GOP needs to do a better
job of educating and informing. The GOP needs to do a better job of teaching
our American Heritage.
Cont...To claim victory, the Democrats wisely appealed to the
unlearned idealism of the young, the self-interest and ignorance of the
immigrant, a fictitious war on women, the dependency of those who rely on
government for their daily subsistence, and those whose ideals and priorities
lie in social issues rather than economic issues. It is, and will
continue to be the classes of people that the Democratic party will continue to
pander to. As their numbers increase, which they will (except for the
millennials, they will soon be working for a living and paying for what they
voted for. Nothing changes a person's mind faster than having to actually
pay for their choices!) there will always be the division between the makers and
Over 110,000,000 Americans are now receiving some form of government welfare,
according to Senator Sessions. Spending on food stamps will reach $800 billion
within a decade. Medicaid increased from 34 million to 54 million from 2000 to
2010.Millions of Americans are hurting. They are looking to Obama
for jobs. All they want is to be able to pay their bills. They don't want
exotic vacations with two government paid jets flying two hours apart to take
them somewhere. They don't want 100 or more days on the golf course per
year. They just want to be able to pay their bills.Obama has had
four years and all he has done during that four years was to campaign. Well, he
can't run for President again, so maybe he'll find a day or two to
spend in the White House to work at the temp job that we gave him. Maybe
he'll find a way to help the 23,000,000 who are out of work. Maybe
he'll find a way to get the 110,000,000 Americans off welfare - without
throwing them under the bus.
Finally, yes turn off and down Hannity and Limbaugh who lead the last two
@Mike Richards"How will he create jobs? "Well
he's got a jobs bill that he gave an evening speech about in 2011. I think
it's residing in Boehner's trash can. (Not sure why nobody has emptied
that can yet).
As far as rhetoric from the GOP goes I can only quote the last words of Rhet
Butler from "Gone with the Wind". It's not the rhetoric I'm
concerned with since we all know a wackadoodle when we see one, it's the
obstruction by hypocrites, that put us down this pathway, that has me concerned.
J ThompsonYou post a pile of GOP rhetoric in the comments section of
an article about reducing GOP rhetoric? If you ever venture into a spot where
you're curious why Obama was re-elected, look no further than yourself.If your arguments against Obama can't stand on their own without
hyperbole...If they can't legitimately show Obama deficiencies versus
predecessors...then your arguments are the output of opinion and are completely
baseless. Instead, these message boards for you are nothing more than another
place to forward the chain emails you receive. Emails you receive, consume as
fact, and forward without ever bothering to research whether they contain
facts.Whether you want to hear it or not, the common thread in all
your problems is you.
J Thompson,You are getting your party's message confused, aren't
you? 110 million on some kind of government assistance and "all they want is
to be able to pay their bills"? Your own presidential candidate said these
people "believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a
responsibility to care for them. I'll never convince them they should take
personal responsibility and care for their lives".So which is
it? These are honest Americans trying to find work in an economy Obama messed up
for them, or these are moochers who Obama has enabled to live parasitically off
the rest of us? Keep it straight, man. If you are going to ignorantly blame
someone for all our ills you need to keep your message consistent.Your attack of Obama traveling in government jets and using vacation time
shows how thin your position is. Every president travels for official duties and
campaigning. If Romney had won, he would too, so don't delude yourself. And
GW Bush still holds the record for vacation time in office. He spent 1020 days
on vacation, nearly 3 of his 8 years!
@ Mike Richards 8:18 a.m. Nov. 13, 2012So? The conservative right
should have a monopoly on the "do as I say not as I do" mentality?Isn't that their MO already?
The hate-based left slandered anyone who disagreed with Obama (or used words
like Chicago or food stamp, or thought George Zimmerman deserved a fair trail)
as being racist Obama excused some from obeying immigration law, to pander
for votesObama bought the promiscuous co-ed contingent by promising free
abortion pills paid for by the local dioceseObama claimed that taxing the
rich, who already dis-proportionally pay more taxes, will solve the problems of
the %49 of the population that doesn't pay taxesThe GOP
doesn't need to soften their rhetoric; they need to confront - head-on -
the race, gender and class warfare of the intolerant left even more vigorously;
because hate is still hate - especially when it is trendy hate
Official duties for the First Lady to travel to her vacation spot two hour
before the President travels to that same spot, and they use TWO AIRPLANES for
that trip?Get a grip. The Obamas have shown us nothing but contempt
for the money that we pay them for their "vacations".No
President has shown such utter contempt for the people and for the funds paid by
the people than Obama. He spends his time on the golf course or bowling to
perfect "his game" at the expense of Americans who are out of work.You can try to hide the "facts", but the FACTS tell us that
Obama played while America suffered. Obama's family ate $150 lunches while
America starved. Obama promised jobs to Americans. Where are those jobs? Are
we all to serve as Obama's caddy?
When I read articles like this, where liberals are telling conservatives how to
act or what they should have done if they wanted to win, it reminds me of the
following scripture in 3 Nephi 3:5-8 "5 Therefore I have written this
epistle, sealing it with mine own hand, feeling for your welfare, because of
your firmness in that which ye believe to be right, and your noble spirit in the
field of battle.6 Therefore I write unto you, desiring that ye would
yield up unto this my people, your cities, your lands, and your possessions,
rather than that they should visit you with the sword and that destruction
should come upon you.7 Or in other words, yield yourselves up unto
us, and unite with us and become acquainted with our secret works, and become
our brethren that ye may be like unto us—not our slaves, but our brethren
and partners of all our substance."We have the conservatives
wanting to promote traditional Christian values, and the liberals telling us to
put aside those values and join them. Lets remember what happened to those
cities that put aside their traditional Christian values.
J ThompsonTwo swings, two misses. Perhaps 3's a charm?Your hyperbole..."They don't want 100 or more days on the golf
course per year."The facts...Obama has golfed about 100 times
over his entire 4 year term, or 25 per year, or one weekend a month. No one
except your ilk sees that as unacceptable, especially in comparison to the days
off take by his predecessors.Your hyperbole..."Maybe he'll
find a way to get the 110,000,000 Americans off welfare"The
facts...from the US HHS statistics dated Oct 12th, 2012. Total on welfare =
4.6Mil, Total on food stamps 46.7Mil. Yes, those numbers should be addressed,
but they are not unreasonable considering the economy's decline.
Reasonable people get that, and they don't have to inflate the numbers by
double in their posts in order to justify their false outrage.Rhetoric vs facts? Here's two prime examples of the difference. Sadly
these examples run rampant in your posts and in the GOP talking points. Exactly
the point of the original letter.
I would suggest a few more. Stop calling patriotic Democrats,
"Socialists," "Communists" or "Fascists." Discontinue
claiming there are "death panels" and that Obama-Romney Care is
"socialized medicine" (It is NOT. It is still to be run through private
insurance companies. It is our special brand and much different than health care
in Canada, Great Britain or France.). Drop the use of phrases like, "the gay
agenda," "activist judges" and "federal overreach." It seems
the Republican Party has become a sound-bite machine, with constant repeating of
cliches. They should still express opposition, but do it with rational arguments
instead always playing the fear card with scary words and phrases.
People. Look to see how many "likes" your posts get. If there is only
one, you did it yourself.
RedShirtUSS Enterprise, UTLets remember what happened to those
cities that put aside their traditional Christian values.•12:47 p.m.
Nov. 13, 2012============ You mean like;shunning the
poor and the needy, the sick the needy, the elderly, ect. starting
OFFENSIVE wars, pridefully lifting themselves one above the other, worshipping gold, silver, and dressing in costly apparel, abandoning
“having all things in common” in lieu of everyman for
himself… reveling in war, arguments and daily contention –
even amongst themselves? If you are referring to cities like that
and Christian values like these then yes – That’s why
I’m against what Republicans value.It’s also why you
lost…Stop listening to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn
Beck – they lost the election for the GOP.
Silo,Don't even start to excuse Obama from diverting his hours from
the White House to "sports".You'll loose - and
you'll lose big time. Between his "golf games", his
"bowling", his "basketball", and his "card games", Obama
has shown nothing but distain for America. He travels the world in search for
"fun" while 23,000,000 Americans can't pay their mortgage. What a
contradiction on what he "says" and what he "does".Look at his record.Look at his agenda.America hangs in
the balance while he plays "golf".]
J Thompson,Seriously, every president gets hammered from the other
side for their vacation habits. From Ike and golf, to Carter and Camp David, to
Reagan and brush clearing, they all catch flak. Had Romney gotten the nod, I am
sure he would catch flak too.It's an incredibly tough job. No
matter what you or I may think of the job any particular president is doing,
having the guy who has his hand on the button well rested and clear minded is a
To "LDS Liberal" exactly. Just look at the damage that the liberals
have caused.They started offensive wars throughout the world.The pride that comes out of the liberal cities is incredible. Just look
at the pride of the Holloywood types or the NY liberals that look down on
anybody who isn't just like them.Look at who cares about the
costly apparel. It is the liberals who care. From the poor liberals in the
urban areas paying $200 for a pair of shoes, to the uber wealthy that typically
go to the the high end fashion events.Liberals are also the ones
that worship money. They think money will solve our problems. Just look at how
they handle anything. They think you can spend your way out of a problem.Liberals belive that everyone under them should have things in common.
Just look at George Sorros or Warren Buffett, neither one of them is giving all
they can to the poor.Look at the contention that Liberals spread.
We been hearing for over 4 years now that the wealthy people have
"stolen" money from the poor, and that the wealthy do not pay their
"fair share". Liberas spread hate.
Look at those who excuse a "President" who "plays" instead of
working. We hired Obama to WORK. He "plays" golf or he bowls or he
plays card games as he flies around the world. Those activities are well
documented. He cares nothing about helping us. All he cares about is holding
his office.America chose him to play golf and to bowl for four more
years. What have we become?
Vacations?We all love vacations. We look forward to our one-week
vacation from work. We all look forward to going somewhere different and
spoiling ourselves for a few days. Most of us don't mind spending a few
dollars more than we spend at McDonalds for our meals on vacation.None of us get free transportation via Air Force One. None of us get a second
airplane to fly us to our vacation spot because we can't wait for two hours
to ride on Air Force One. None of us get a government paid meal of $150 for a
salad while we're on vacation.That's what's wrong
with this administration. They think that we're slaves who will pay for
their "playing". They've listened to "Paster Wright" for
too many years. They have no understanding of what it means to be an American.
Your hero Bush spent more time on his Texas ranch than he did in the White
J Thompson3 strikes and your out.I tried to give you a
chance to redeem yourself and recognize why your posts have no credibility with
anyone but yourself. Even with examples, supported by facts and presented in a
straight bullet list, you missed the point.So here's the cliff
notes version.You exaggerated by quadruple the amount of golf played
by obama in order to make some meaningless point. When you lie in a post to
exaggerate your position, people question your credibility.You
exaggerated by more than double the number of welfare recipients in order to
make another meaningless point. When you lie twice in the same post to
exaggerate your position, people realize you are comfortable lying when it suits
your needs.When you refuse to acknowledge that you are
exaggerating(lying), even when blatantly caught doing so, your credibility is
completely vacated.Reasonable people want facts, you provide
rhetoric. Your posts serve only for entertainment.
Silo,You've proven nothing. How many hours do you
work each week? I work 60+ hours with almost no time off for anything.How many hours does Obama work IN THE WHITE HOUSE each week? One hour? Two
hours? Does anyone know? Where is that information located. We know that he
flies around the country. We know that he talks to people who like "rock
stars". We know that he plays golf. We know that he plays cards while
he's flying around the country, but do you have an evidence that he works
in the White House? Why is it so hard to find out exactly how many
hours he has worked for us as our President while sitting behind the desk, doing
the job that we elected him to do?Who is "filtering that
information?Who is trying to tell us that a week on vacation is the
same as a week working?Who is trying to tell us that spending
$450,000 a year on salary has not been a total waste of tax payer money?
J ThompsonShould I believe that you work 60+ hours a week when
you've already shown you're comfortable lying about other stats in
order to bolster your argument? Should anyone reading any of your posts
attribute any truth to them going forward?When you can show an
objective comparison across presidents regarding travel budgets, time spent on
recreation, time spent working at a desk, etc, then you might convince someone
that you truly care about those details. When you pontificate about those
things only in the context of President Obama, and lie to inflate the impact,
then it's just Rhetoric. I'd wager by your actions you
work in Multi Level Marketing.
Speaking as a liberal, let me offer my opinion about what Republicans should do
in the next election:Don't change a thing. Really, that would
So you're reduced to whining about Obama playing golf once a week. Sort of
says it all, doesn't it?
J. Thompson, you've made a lot of claims with nothing to back them up.How about showing us some numbers?Some kind of solid data
that will back up your foolish claims that the President spends his time playing
instead of working.You can't. So isn't that lying?
re:RedShirtBetween 1979 and 2011, Soros gave away over $8 billion to
human rights, public health, and education causes.Warren Buffett is
continuing to make good on his promise to donate most of his $44.1 billion to
charity.The third richest person in the world gave about 18.4
million of his company’s Class B shares, valued at $1.52 billion, to the
Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Bloomberg Businessweek reported Saturday,
June 10, 2012. (Utah--with its low cost of living--ranks in the top
15 for personal bankruptcy filings).
Well, some of these movement conservatives just like having their anger. If
they didn't have Obama's victory to be angry about, they would not
have meaning in their lives. The idea of commonality is foreign. They yearn
for that world that existed only in their mind, that America than never was.
It's as real to them as their memories of childhood untouched by reality.
Roland, TANF does not account for everything that people consider
"welfare" spending. I don't have time to do the research again,
but "welfare" spending is a much bigger piece of the Federal budget than
0.5%.Rhetoric, demagoguery, anger, distortion, etc, are rampant on
both sides of the political spectrum, and have been for quite some time. The
problems we face as a nation weren't created in just the last one or two
presidential terms. They have been in the making for decades.The
biggest problem we now face is too many voters want their representatives to be
completely inflexible on particular issues. That leads to gridlock, meaning
nothing gets done. Reagan said it's better to get 80% of what you want
than 100% of nothing. Well, since voters are punishing representatives when
they try to compromise to get something, most representatives are becoming
hard-liners, which means we are all getting 100% of nothing.Want
change? Write your representatives and tell them you'll support them if
they get something done you like, then back that up with your vote. Otherwise,
all we get is posturing and finger-pointing. From both sides.
To "Truthseeker" yet even with all that he gave, he still does not do as
LDS liberal claims. Soros is still worth $19 billion, and does not share all of
his wealth with others. That is the point, it isn't that he doesn't
give any, but that LDS liberal claims that liberals want to "have all things
in common". With Soros' net worth of $19 billion, he obviously
doesn't want to share everything in common with the rest of us. The same
can be said for Buffett or Bill Gates.If they want to share
everything in common, why do they retain so much of their wealth. Just pledging
to give it away once you are dead is not the same. Nor is giving it to charity
because they are not sharing everything with everybody. Now, if they were to
give all their money to the government, except what they need for basic living
expenses, then I would say they want to "have all things in common" with
the rest of us.