The DJIA and S&P are coming back, by now (Sunday). Not that it matters;
I'm more into the TSX. More importantly to me, the Canadian dollar is back
at par after being two points down earlier in the week. Thngs are in place for a
slow, but steady, recovery. That's good.
@MountanmanHayden, IDObviously, having a survivalist mentality
and living in a region of the country noted for anti-government, fundamentalist
Christian, anti-ethinic and pro-white activism should help in the coming years.
Those of us not exposed to such influence understand your position in the
context of your environment. However, don't you think that such isolation
will only increase your anxiety four years hence when demographics are even more
diverse?People understand your dissatisfaction with the election.
They surely understand your fears and concerns. However, they certainly
don't share them. A choice was made. You might take solace from the Mayan
prophecy that the world is supposed to end December 21, 2012. Thus, the
election shouldn't matter, anyway! For fundamentalist
Christians looking for the End of Times, such a calamity must be desirable since
their greatest hopes will finally be realized. To them, Obama's
re-election can be viewed as a positive. So, take heart, salvation may be at
Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UTIt is apparent that the
dyed-in-the-wool, movement conservatives will continue with the hyperbole and
fearmongering. That is their bread-and-butter strategy and it doesn't
work. When they learn this lesson, they will be to move forward and we can
finally come together to make America a great country. For now, they will
continue to tear at our country for their own selfish benefit.The
2012 Democratic win can be seen as the end of the Reagan era of partisan
extremism. The policies of the wingnuts should be seen as ultimately
destructive to the conservative philosophy. However, there will always be those
who will attempt to re-package these old ideas in a new, gift-wrapped way and
sell it to the American people. They see the problem as only an issue of
re-branding and not requiring a complete re-tooling.
Mountanman Hayden, IDLook out your window. America is far better
off than it was in 2008. The slight drop in the stock market is nothing like we
saw back then. The wealthy, investment class has benefitted considerably by the
Obama administration. Wall Street fears are only that Congress will not act on
the deficit, but House Majority Leader John Boehner Srecognizes the need act.Sure, he'll posture and bluff, insisting that Republicans received
a mandate because Republicans were returned to House control, but Democrats
picked up 3 seats in the House. Boehner recognizes that there is a strong
possibility that continued obstructionism will result in further losses in the
House the next time around. People are not nearly as upset with the president
as they are with members of Congress.Repeating old, hackneyed
Republican talking points doesn't work. November 6th was a day of decision
and the President won. The American people rejected the Republican vision as
wrong and irrelevant. Those who continue to rant about the end of Amercan as it
(never) was, and want to take "their America" back from the infidels,
will not learn the message the election presented. America has won.
President Obama received no credit when the market went up.The
market goes down and President Obama receives all the credit.The
repub spin continues to have the same efficacy as a prediction of a romney
The Stock Market hit 12000 a half-generation ago then went downhill or never
recovered much under any administration, despite notable ongoing inflation. It
may be worse now or then, but politicians and other villains are destroying us.
Hemlock: Whats the secret formula for recovery and why haven't repubs
enacted any of it? Tax cuts certainly aren't the solution, a large portion
of the deficit are due to Bush's tax cuts and the collapse occurred a few
years after them. So tell, what is that secret formula.
How many millions did Romney lose in the 2% drop?No doubt Obama told the
stock market to drop.
Smart money people understand that Obama doesn't know how to enhance an
economic recovery. Obama wanted the job, let's see him do it. Any
improvement that has happened thus far has happened despite the WH, not because
What is the Stock Market? It's the place where you and I can go to buy part
of a company. It's the place that the average person can become an
"owner" instead of just being a "worker"How many
posters have told us that life is not fair because they are just
"pawns", that they're "used" by companies, companies that
earn "big bucks" at the expense of the workers. The Stock Market is the
great "leveler". It allows the "worker" to also be an
"owner".When the Stock Market drops, it simply means that
people don't think that their investment in that company will make money
for them - so they sell their stock at a time when there are fewer buyers than
sellers. Fewer buyers than sellers means that the price drops.Why
did the market drop right after the election? People know that Obama's
policies will hurt THEIR business - so they sell.There's
nothing mysterious about it. It's a simple case of "cause" and
So Screwdriver, are you saying that the current plan to let the Bush tax cuts
expire (raising taxes), and letting the across the board spending cuts go into
effect (reducing spending), which is the compromise the congress and the
president agreed upon (no obstructionism), is exactly what should happen? Well while we are at it, lets bring all the troops home so we
aren't charging these wars on a credit card to China, and cut Obama care
funding in half too, to get it almost down the price tag the president promised.
That might be all it takes to balance the whole budget.Sounds great!
Problem solved. Lets do it. At least we wouldn't be passing a 22 trillion
dollar debt to future generations, just the 16 trillion we have now.
Many businesses have allready come out and said that taming the deficit should
include cuts in spending AND increased revenues. The S&P said that a long
time ago. Which is the party against ANY revenue increase? Republicans. They
have pleged to Grover Norquest not to ever raise taxes - even to lower the debt
and save the country.
The stock market has doubled since Obama took office. The decline is
due to thier lack of faith in republicans working with the president to solve
the debt crisis. The market knows it's 4 more years of republican
While you are celebrating the falling value of stocks and wishing for the demise
of the market, you should remember that a lot more than 1% of the people are
invested in the market. Most retirement savings are in the market, and social
security is headed for bankruptcy. So how do you plan to care for the elderly
when all the money has dried up?The vicious rhetoric against
Mountanman, conservatives, Christians (including Mormons), republicans, Carl
Rove, and anyone else who might have supported Romney for any reason, is so over
the top. While liberals may feel they are outnumbered in the Utah community,
there are plenty of like minded thinkers for you in the Salt Lake area. No need
to act like Jeremiah Wright. You are not so picked on. In fact, your guy won
remember? You go ahead and keep fighting for your man and your plan.
I hope you are right. I hope things won't turn out as bad as I think they
will. But I will prepare to take my college kids and their families back into my
house when they graduate because under this president, so far, that has been the
@Counter Intelligence"The stock drop is NOT about Europe (which has
been in the news for months) - it is about the lack of confidence business has
in Obama's redistribution politics."Then why did the market
fall specifically a few minutes after Europe announced a poor report? If
it's Obama's fault... then why is the market up for the year and why
is the DOW several thousand points higher than it was when obama got into
@WonderI did not say Obama was responsible for every stock market
action - I said THIS drop was a reaction to THIS election.Better
question: Why do you distort my statement?
It is truly amazing in the age of the 24/7/365 news cycle that there are still
those willing to predict the future at every turn. A six weeks ago we had two
professors from the University of Michigan who developed an algorithm that
predicted that Mitt Romney would win every battleground State in a landslide
victory to become the next President. Too bad nobody remembers their names now
so that we could ask what went wrong. Today we have Mountanman of Idaho (but
who spells his name like he went to school in Utah) reminding us to lay in
supplies because the last days are upon us. Why? Because the majority of voters
had the nerve to reject his choice for President.
@Counter Intelligence -- If Obama is the cause of every drop in the stock
market, then he must also be the cause of every increase, right? Or why one and
not the other?
Several reasons for the market going down.Problems in Europe - the
"leaders" say they have a plan to solve their (various)countries'
financial problems; but the people aren't accepting the solution.Profit takers. Many stock owners will sell now, then buy later when/if market
goes back up. (if it doesn't look to go back up fairly soon they will buy
gold/silver)"Millionaires" - many of them don't really
have to reside in this country so they will sell their holdings and move
somewhere that they might not be taxed as high.There is also a
growing fear that more and more companies will put as many employees as possible
on part-time salary (to avoid Obamacare) which doesn't DIRECTLY affect the
stock market except that it will reduce the purchasing power of consumers, which
will, in turn, limit sales of products that companies deliver.How
well the market recovers will be DIRECTLY dependent on what happens with the
"fiscal cliff" issue that gets talked about so much.
It is clear Obama knows nothing about business or the economy - however he knows
a lot about class, gender and race warfare - which may have gotten him reelected
but it wont fix the economy.The stock drop is NOT about Europe
(which has been in the news for months) - it is about the lack of confidence
business has in Obama's redistribution politics.I am afraid
this drop is just the beginning of a long "European" economy typified by
high unemployment, government dependence and lack of innovationAmericas per person debt is HIGHER than Greece - no wonder the market is
Mountainman, I notice you live in the U.S. capitol of Neo-Nazi skinheads.Will you tell us which group you belong to?
Sorry to hear that Mountainman..please reconsider. You know those of us who you
consider as liberals on this post comment into the headwinds of conservative
ideology. Having the wind in your face is not as fun as having it at your back
but it's not really all that bad if you really believe that you're
headed in the right direction.
This stuff is all just minor adjustments.If we don't avoid the
"fiscal cliff" we may find that we have much bigger problems on our
hands. And please don't bother blaming one side or the other. They are
both complicit. If we prove to the markets that we cannot get our house in
order, the results will not be pretty (act like Greece, get treated like
Greece).If we manage that successfully, then our next order of
business should be figuring out how to be less dependent on China and correcting
our trade balance over the long term.And then we need to figure out
how to give ourselves some degree of insulation from Europe. Because if they go
down, we don't want to be standing too close.
Mountanman,You and people like you are the primary reason the political
conversation is so toxic in this country. You honestly believe that your beliefs
are the only valid ones, and that the alternative must be the Apocalypse.
That's wrong, it's delusional, and I don't think it is
healthy.I truly hope you and all the other embittered conservatives
that are coping so poorly with these election results can find some peace and
perspective in the next four years. Honestly, you and the country will get
through it. I wasn't sure America would survive 8 years of GW Bush that you
cursed us with, but we did. Funny, isn't is? We always think the other side
will completely destroy this country, but they never do. If this really is your
last post on the Deseret News site, I wish you good luck.
This is not a simple cause-and-effect reaction to Obama's re-election, as
much as many conservatives would love to think so. Multiple news stories report
that worries about the European economy and several other factors were also part
of the one-day decline. Did you forget that the DOW Jones recovered to over
13000 during Obama's first term?
"Obama will be amazed to find that there isn't enough money in America
to pay for his Obamacare that alone will cost at least $2.4 trillion each year
to provide healthcare for millions "You really need to quit
lying or being wrong so much.
Ha Mountanman! Have fun waiting.....and waiting....and waiting...for this
disaster you see coming. You remind me of all those religious nuts who predict
the end of the world and then have egg on their face when it doesn't
happen. Enjoy your time in your bunker.
Obama is a national version of Rocky Anderson: By the third year of his second
term - even his most ardent supporters will have to come to grips with his true
nature - which isn't pretty
@ Pragmatist. I too am a pragmatist in that I believe theory always follows
practice so this will be my last post on this site but I will leave you with
this thought as I move on. It won't take until 2016, a year from now is
enough. Got your food storage in? Your are going to need it. Don't say you
The stock market has doubled since Obama became president. A 2% drop is nothing
in that context.
Time to buy!
Or is the decline in the market a result of severe depression among the 1%?
Oh come on Ivan, the stock market started it's decline 30 seconds after the
European President announced slow growth in the European market for 2013. It
had absolutely nothing to do with the election. Once again, if Republicans
don't face reality head on and start developing conservative policies based
on reality you're going to be completely marginalized. Mountainman..you might want to print a copy of your post on this thread for
reference in 2016..I certainly will.
The stock market is the greatest cause of poverty in the Unites States and, if
not done away with entirely, should be much more heavily regulated.
Yes, Imagine the real good that Karl Rove could have done?
Obama supporters think they won a great victory by re-electing Obama but his
re-election has actually sealed our fate and killed America's last hope for
prosperity. Obama will raise taxes on the "rich" (those people who
already pay nearly 80% of all federal income taxes already while 47% get a free
ride) and more investors and capitol risk takers will pull back and hunker down
in an effort to survive the economic assault. Obama will be amazed to find that
there isn't enough money in America to pay for his Obamacare that alone
will cost at least $2.4 trillion each year to provide healthcare for millions
who think the world owes them free healthcare, free abortions and free birth
control. Our national debt will double again,unemployment will skyrocket and
double digit inflation will cause the poverty rate to explode and more people
than ever will lose their homes and life savings! Our enemies will continue to
attack us and Iran will get a nuke and will use it, probably on American soil.
Democrats will continue to blame all this on the "rich" not paying their
fare share and on GWB!