Dear jtheawesome try reading Hebrews 10:19-20 for a description of what the veil
in the temple means.
@ zoar63,"For God is Spirit? By faith he(Moses)left Egypt, not fearing
the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible.
(Moses 11:27J S, Lectures on Faith, Q. What is the Father? A. He is a
personage of glory and of power. (5:2.). What is the son? First, he is a
personage of tabernacle.No man hath seen God at anytime, except[JS]
he hath born record of his Son… .(John 1:19) Check
@Sharrona"For God is Spirit,"Then went up Moses, and
Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:And they saw
the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a
sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. Ex
24:9-10Read the entire 24th chapter. Israel is making a covenant
with GOD and he appears to them. There is even a comment in the scriptures about
his feet. Moses also mentions back parts, face and hands. And I will take
away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen
Ex 33:23So from the OT we have a description of GOD which
contradicts the third century Nicene definition of GOD. From the OT
description GOD. is in the image of man or is it Man is in the image of GOD.
I don’t know what influence the temple may have had on early Christian
theology as Barker advocates. Acts 2:46 is only passage I know of that suggests
Jesus’ disciples continued in daily temple worship after he was gone.
According to Jerome, James, the brother of Jesus was allowed to enter the holy
of holies on the Day of Atonement to offer prayers on behalf of the people. That
sounds like a rival priest caste to the high priest Caiaphas. Barker’s
book might be worth a read.
RE: Craig Clark …the first temple in Jerusalem was built to house the ark
of the covenant .Whom does the Ark of the Covenant typify? John
tells us (1:14) “the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” If one
translates the Greek into Hebrew the word “dwelt” would be
“shakhan,” obviously from the same root as “Shekhinah,”
the Presence of God that rested upon the Holy Ark. John is saying that Jesus is
that Divine Presence, but no longer resting on an Ark of wood, He “pitched
His tent among us” in the Womb of a living woman of flesh and blood. Jesus
is The Christian’s Temple.RE: Coach Biff Christ referred to
the temple as his "Fathers" house, did he not? True,But the time
is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will
worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who
will worship him that way. For “God is Spirit”, so those who worship
him must worship in spirit and in truth.”(John 4:21-24 ).
jttheawesome,"I am not certain where Ms. Barker studied or what
her sources were, but I must disagree somewhat with what she calls a
"mystery" of ancient temple worship...."____________________Temples in antiquity are found in Egypt,
Mesopotamia, and Persia. These religions were influences that the Israelite
religion drew from. This isn’t Margaret Barker’s radical new theory.
The evidence for it is no further away than the Old Testament we use. The transition from polytheism to monotheism took centuries. The first
commandment is that the God of Israel will have no other gods before him. Why
would that be featured so prominently were it not a central contentious issue of
the times?It’s evident in the contention between the prophets
Ezekial and Elijah with the Israelite kings Ahab and Zedikiah. It’s
evident in the withering language the prophets used against the children of
Israel for falling into idolatry. The texts record that the first temple in
Jerusalem was built to house the ark of the covenant but that story
doesn’t exclude possibilities that the temple had a much larger history.
Professor Hugh Nibley wrote several books that reviewed the early Christian
teachings and beliefs about the temple and rituals, including the teachings
given by Christ to the apostles during the 40 days between his resurrection and
ascension to heaven. The Epistle to the Hebrews discusses in detail the concept
of Christ as the High Priest after the order of the ancient high priest
Melchizedek, to whom Abraham paid his tithes. The Book of Revelation discusses
John's ascent into heaven where he receives the Revelation by passing
through the veil that surrounds God's throne ("Revelation" is a
translation of the term Apo-Kalypsis, the opening of the veil). The first
chapters of Genesis depict the Garden of Eden as a temple where God dwells.
Professor Jack Welch of BYU proposes in his book comparing the Sermon on the
Mount with the Sermon at the Temple that the version of the Sermon that is
recounted in the Book of Mormon reveals the Sermon in Matthew's Gospel to
be a temple text concerned with the process of worship in a temple context, of
preparing to enter God's presence.
That's neat, Sharrona, however, Christ referred to the temple as his
"Fathers" house, did he not? That is the reason he twice drove the
money changers out.
Mr. Clark: Thank you for your feedback. I would respond by referring you to the
mounds of extra-biblical historical evidence for many things which the Bible
clearly and accurately describes. At no time has any historical or archeological
discovery anywhere in the "Holy Land" area proven the Bible to be wrong;
indeed, every discovery proves the Bible to have been supremely accurate. What
the Bible says about the Temple rites and rituals is precisely what did happen,
and there is evidence outside the Bible to back that up. I would also refer you
to most any orthodox Jewish Rabbi, who will confirm from thousands of years of
oral and written tradition and history that the Temple rituals as described in
the Old Testament are quite complete and accurate - and in fact, when the time
comes that the Temple is rebuilt in Jerusalem, as the Bible also predicts, the
Hebrew Scriptures will be used as the guide for restoring the Temple itself, as
well as all the required rites.
RE: Craig Clark, things the Bible does record about temples.Jesus…, Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.
They replied, It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are
going to raise it in three days? But the temple he had spoken of was his Body.
John 2:19-21 (NIV) Jesus is The Christian’s Temple.Jesus
… whether you worship the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem(Temple).
You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship, while we Jews know
all about him, for salvation comes through the Jews. But the time is
coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship
the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will
worship him that way. For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship
in spirit and in truth.”(John 4:21-24 ). I have spoken openly
to the world, Jesus replied I always taught in synagogues or at the Temple,
where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in Secret.(John 18:20 NIV)
The ancient Israelite religion would surprise both Christians and Jews of today
if we knew some of the things that the Bible doesn't record.
I am not certain where Ms. Barker studied or what her sources were, but I must
disagree somewhat with what she calls a "mystery" of ancient temple
worship. The Bible, in the Pentateuch - the five books of Moses and first five
books of the Bible - gives in great detail exactly what the Temple was used for
and the rituals and rites performed therein. There is no mystery about it, if
one accepts that the Bible is the unerring and complete word of God. Throughout
ancient Israel's history, the people repeatedly fell into sin and idolatry,
and Temple into disuse and disrepair, having been destroyed and rebuilt three
times before Jesus came along. All the sacrifices and feasts, the rites inside
the Most Holy Place, all of it - pointed ahead to the future sacrifice and
atonement of Jesus Christ. The Temple veal represented the separation between
God and men, and when Christ was crucified, that veil was rent in two, top to
bottom, meaning that the way was now open for all to have direct contact with
God thru' Christ. No mystery, no magic, no "lost temple rites."