Published: Friday, Nov. 2 2012 12:00 a.m. MDT
GM and Chrysler already paid back the bailout.
GM and Chrysler already paid back the government for the bailout.
@Stenar "GM and Chrysler already paid back the bailout."Technically true, but misleading. The payments were made in a mixture of both
cash and GM stock. The Treasury still holds about 500 million shares. The
price of that stock has fallen much lower than it was when the bailout was
arranged.So, if the Treasury were to sell its stock at the current
price, the taxpayers would lose about $25 billion on the deal. That's more
than a quarter the cost of the original bailout.GM and Chrysler did
what they agreed to do, but the taxpayers are still out $25 billion.
@ Stenar. GM has paid back some of the bailout but not all of it and they never
will. Next question: How did Fiat of Italy, end up owning Chrysler for not one
dollar in payment? Such is the "success" of the bailout!
GM gave stock to the taxpayers. It's not worth the amount lent. Chrysler is no longer an American company. The taxpayers subsidized their sale
to the Italians.
I want to know who had the private capital available to take either GM or
Chrysler out of bankruptcy in 2009? Who? That is the biggest
problem with Romney's claims. While the US was pumping money into the
Banks to keep them solvent, who had the resources needed? It wasn't the
markets. Trillions had been lost in the market collapse in 2008 and 2009.
There was no white knight waiting over the hill with funds - unless you were
open to having GM and Chrysler being Chinese owned.Had the financial
markets been healthy, Romney's plan might have worked. But they
weren't. In 2009 our financial markets were on the brink of insolvency.
President Obama is demonized for looking after the interests of the auto
workers, but thats what Democrats do and thats why many common people vote for
them.The pension funds of the auto companies were not fully funded,
except for the executives and CEO's. There ought to be a law, that if
executive pensions are being fully funded so also should worker pension funds.
Both funds ought to be one fund. No special priviliges.
@ Uthabluedevil. Romney sited an example of United Airlines that declared
bankruptcy and reorganized and restructured without on penny of taxpayer's
money. Look at them now! Romney was absolutely right!
Obama ended up doing a managed bankruptcy for GM which is what Romney also
proposed. That isn't being reported for obvious reasons. Romney's plan
would have saved millions however compared to Obama. People were mistakenly told
by Obama and his media that bankruptcy means out of business which is absolutely
FALSE! Lots of companies go through bankruptcy only to return leaner and
stronger. Obama was all about getting the UAW support and nothing more. Obama
never does anything without political gains and that is the BIGGEST difference
between he and Mitt. One is a leader and the other is a Chicago politician.
Some of you sure don't remember 2008/2009 very well, do you? There was NO
private money to bail the auto industry out. That was the whole point of the
government involvement. It's like you people have amnesia about recent
history. (You probably also think everything was just humming along perfectly
until January 2009, right?)
This column is factually inaccurate in at least one sense. If you read Steven
Rattner's book Overhaul, you'll discover that the Obama
administration's first preference WAS a managed bankruptcy. Rattner and
his colleagues would have loved a private investor. None came forward. The
bailout was their very last option, the last possible avenue explored. Governor
Romney's criticisms are either uninformed, or mendacious.
Yep. One bet against America. While the other did not. It's that simple. Maintaining a rock solid domestic car
industry isn't a Demo vs Repub thing but an American thing. It's a
security issue. Who builds our cars, trucks, tanks, etc? Do you really want to
leave those things to be built by foreign investors and companies? I
didn't think so.
@moutianman..... the two cases are not even close to bing the same, GM versus
United. If you want to use the United plan, then you need to mix in
Eastern Airlines, Piedmont, TWA, PAN AM and the others that didn't survive
bankruptcy and were either liquidated or assumed. Add to that, Untied did get
federal dollars several times over during the 2000s. Additionally, the United
reorg was also much different because it was largely a reorganization of leased
asset commitments and the merger with a peer. There is next to nothing similar
between the business models or debt structures to that compare to the GM or
Chrysler cases. Add to that this was not United's first dance
at the bankruptcy rodeo dance.... they have been frequent visitors.So if Romney really was using United as an example.... this is real
disappointing. Which lends me to think if he did make this statement, he was
talking to a crowd who had no clue. Romney is way too smart to make an analogy
like that and think that people who understand this stuff would buy that
line.Add the United comments to the 47er comments.... .
United transferred its traditional pensions to a government agency. Obama bailed
out the Union pensions.United is still an American company. And they
took out bankruptcy once, from 2002-2006. Steven Rattner the
"car czar" for Obama and analyst for MSNBC? Since he's the bailout
man, think he might be biased? There was money around, but GM and Chrysler were
not worth it. Obama was smart in making GM's president quit,
but he did it because of pressure from both sides of the fence.
Let me ask all of you including the author are you looking at the facts
objectively. Consider this. Romney's idea would have required that through
bankruptcy creditors would have gotten maybe 20 cents or less on the dollar
owed, assets would have been sold off (probably to multiple buyers), and layoffs
would have occurred immediately. It is a stretch beyond reason to think that a
company could survive all that and get loans to further it operations. Romney
has been dishonest in many of his campaign statements. This is an example of one
I agree,“The electorate must choose between a community
organizer, who believes in organized labor and government intervention in the
interest of fairness,and a businessman, who believes that
individuals and businesses are the better sources of economic prosperity and
jobs”,Beyond the animosity of the writers words to lump
working people into the dreaded and feared “organized labor” and the
false notion that Romney has any respect for the individual, I
agree, President Obama is for people Romney is for business. Conservatives, Republicans and Romney businessmen would have people be as
cattle. Nurtured and protected as necessary by their owner masters only to the
satisfaction of business goals. The choice is ours, for the moment,
do we want to be human beings or do we want to be cattle.
@ UtahBlueDevil. I tried diligently to understand your logic (not withstanding
your personal insults about my intelligence) that United Airlines bankruptcy is
not comparable to what should have happened with GM. Are you saying we should
have bailedout out American Motors or any of the other of dozens of car makers
that went bankrupt? Have you considered the fact that the UAW got most of the
bailout to shore up their pension funds with taxpayer money who then turned
around and sent millions back to Obama for his re-election funds? Money
laundering is illegal (unless of course its Obama doing it) and in the corporate
world, the perpetrators of this would spend the rest of their lives in prison!
Mountainman - I made no reference to your intelligence, I challenged your
understanding of the events. The comparison to AMC is yet another different
problem in a different time example. AMC failed because it was not
selling cars. That was not United's problem whose load factors were just
fine. Eastern Airlines was completely about unions, greed by the unions, and
the failure it caused. GM had a sales issue as well, but also had capital
markets that had no liquidity. Companies, even solvent ones, had lines of credit
reduced. Apples and oranges.Lets discuss pensions. Had GM gone
through bankruptcy, you do realize that the unsecured pensions funds would have
cost tax payers about 35 Billion - according to the GAO in 2009. Additionally,
in order to get that bailout of the pension, 40 percent of employees took lower
pay in the new deal. And now, claims of money laundering. If
helping a business, and then that business donates to your campaign equates to
money laundering, well, we are going need a lot more prisons. Lets start with
Haliburton and the previous administration with the no bid contracts they were
awarded for Iraq, and the missing millions.
@ECR:"wrz - Romney's Bain Capital was not 'in the
business of saving companies;' they were in the business of making money
for their investors."Of course Bain made money... by saving
companies from going out of business... and saving jobs. It's called
capitalism. The economic system that America was built on. Obama wants
socialism where the government saves companies by using taxpayer money and
turning them into GSE's (govt sponsored enterprises).... if they survive.
@cjb:"President Obama is demonized for looking after the
interests of the auto workers, but that's what Democrats do and that's
why many common people vote for them."You got that right. Obama
went after the union vote... and will get it.The only problem is,
it's unions who's killing our economy. It's unions causing jobs
to be sent overseas. Unions demand, and get, high (even obscene) wages and
benefits that foreign workers don't get. They undercut us. That's
how they compete, beat us, and take our jobs... textiles, computers, toys,
shoes, furniture, appliances, you name it.Go to Wal-Mart or any big
box store, look at anything for sale in the store (except food). Where's
it made? China, Japan, Indonesia, etc. Even our service industry has gone
foreign. Call your newspaper or telephone company for help. Who do you get?
The voice on the other end will sound foreign... because it is, likely the
Philippines, Barbados, Japan, etc.The only way Mitt (or any
president) will solve our economic problem and get people working again is to
get jobs back from overseas. Which is a near impossible task.
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