@RedShirt:"Tell us, how will the ACA lower total costs of caring
for the nation?"One way is to deny health care to the elderly...
correctly called death panels by Sarah Palin. Obama hinted at it with his
comment that, in certain cases (such as a hip replacement or lever transplant)
the elderly go home and take a pain pill.@Twin Lights:"Again, I am not shilling for the ACA. There are other options."True, there are other options... And one is for states to take over the
problem of health care... like Massachusetts did under Romney. I think the US
Supreme court has held that the Federal Constitution does not authorize the
federal government to require purchasing health insurance. State Constitutions
have no such restrictions.
ugottabkidn:"If you want to cut welfare, food stamps and
unemployment insurance then bring back the TRILLIONS from overseas..."You might wanna tell that to your leader, Obama? His Illinois State
retirement account is invested in part in China.If you're
taking about Romney's overseas accounts, please consider that his money is
safer there since more than 500 US banks have gone bankrupt since 2000. Had he
invested in US banks he would likely have no money to invest.@Twin
Lights:"Folks yammer on about how gov't makes it all more
expensive."Government-controlled programs are the most
inefficient, wasteful and thus expensive for what you get in return."Others have already brought up the problem with freeloaders on the system
- folks who don't have insurance and then go to the emergency room or ask
for charity when they get in trouble."The fault is the
government's for forcing private hospitals to provide services regardless
of one's ability to pay. People who can't pay their medical bills
should be told to sell their TV, cancel their Cell phone services, and go home
and take an aspirin. The later being Obama's advise.
@Rifleman:"The mentality of the liberals is that as long as someone
else is going to pay the bills who cares?"Yeah, as someone once
said... 'Socialism is OK until you run out of other peoples'
money.'@one old man:"'Obamacare'
requires that we all take personal responsibility and begin paying for our
medical care through insurance."Obamacare takes giant strides
toward a socialist society."Isn't that exactly what
conservatives are always yowling about?"No. They are yowling
about illegal redistribution of wealth and loss of freedoms."But
they are prepared to destroy the only advance we've made in that direction
in their efforts to make Obama a one-term president."He made
himself a one-term president when he told us, if he couldn't get it done in
four years it would be a one term proposition. And he hasn't.@JoeCapitalist2:"Nobody asks what something costs anymore.
They don't care, because they are not directly paying the bill."You got that right. And that's why health costs are going out of
sight... someone else is paying the bill. And that's what will eventually
bring us to rationed health care for.
To "Twin Lights" you asked "The question for you is we have from 50%
to 100% more cost per person than our European counterparts - do we get 50% to
100% more benefit?" I would say yes.In many European countries
medications are not used because of cost, and are not allowed to be used because
some people couldn't afford to pay out of pocket.I would
consider the simple fact that we have never had national headlines about
hospitals running out of beds and forcing women to give birth in offices and
hallways. (England)Howmany times have US doctors protested because
they cannot make enough money to stay in business? (Germany)France
had to start to charge people for ambulance service because of abuse.If you want to stop the freeloading, you can't force them through
regulation. You have to cut off the source. Require payment or payment plans to
be set up after medical service.If you want to make insurance
cheaper, get rid of the majority of the 2400+ mandates. Cut the regulations.
The businesses with the worst reputations among consumers are also the most
regulated. Just look up the regulations on banking and health insurance.
RedShirt,We certainly have good technology and innovation. But many
medical leaps occur in Europe as well. I would have to see some data on the
difference in response times. But for the uninsured that wouldn't matter
much.The question for you is we have from 50% to 100% more cost per
person than our European counterparts - do we get 50% to 100% more benefit? I
think the answer is a clear no.But none of this addresses my point.
We have the most free market system yet the highest costs (by a wide margin).
If more of the free market is the solution it is not evident in the data.
Please explain.Again, I am not shilling for the ACA. There are
other options. But the only way I can see to stop freeloading and to distribute
costs is to require everyone to have insurance. If not, they need to sign away
their right to EVER receive ANY kind of help from taxpayers or charity
(otherwise we create moral hazard by rewarding risky behavior).
To "LDS Liberal" wow liberalism has not gone well for you has it. Each
of the civilizations that you mention all died off because they began to follow
practices that the modern day liberals follow.Rome was destroyed
when their government became large and overly burdensome.Egypt fell
becuase they cared more about government built monuments than the people.The Nephites fell because they wanted more government in the form of
Kings, and gave up liberty.The Nazis were founded on the very
liberal policies that you love. They were destined for failure before they ever
left Germany.To the rest of you liberals. Now that more people are
going to be insured, that will further drive up healthcare spending in this
nation. If it currently costs $11 Trillion to serve 250 million people, it will
cost more to now treat 300 million people with the same number of doctors. Tell
us, how will the ACA lower total costs of caring for the nation?To
"Twin Lights" we also have the best technology, quickest response time
from diagnosis to treatment, and we are the most innovative nation. Are you
saying you are willing to give that up?
Exactly, so conservatives need to either stop demanding a larger military, roads
and closed borders or they need to pony up and pay for it. Mandating
that everyone carry PRIVATE healthcare coverage was a neocon idea. Just because
politicians lie and call it a socialist, communist government healthcare
takeoevr doen't excuse you from knowing better and not repeating lies.
We have the most free market oriented health care system in the world AND the
highest costs.If free markets were the solution, we should have the
cheapest system.Folks yammer on about how govt. makes it all more
expensive. But that is not what the evidence shows when we compare ourselves
with other first world countries (which also have excellent medicine).Some markets are not highly responsive to free market incentives (at least not
in the way we would want them to respond). The more I look at healthcare, the
more it seems to be one of these.Others have already brought up the
problem with freeloaders on the system - folks who don't have insurance and
then go to the emergency room or ask for charity when they get in trouble.Some means of requiring all to be properly insured seems to be
necessary. We can dislike the model proposed, but we must come up with a model
that requires full participation in the insurance pool.The only
other solution? Require adults who opt out to sign an irrevocable contract that
they will never seek nor accept help for any illness they get and let the chips
You are absolutely right, I should have thought about this and taken some
personal responsibility before I was born with a pre-existing medical condition
that has made it nearly impossible for me to get insurance!What I
don't understand is how all the super conservatives are against the idea of
everyone paying for their health insurance. We already pay for what you might
call "freeloaders" by forking over billions of dollars to cover ER costs
for everyone, now we are asking everyone to pitch into the pool, how is this a
bad thing? My health insurance is no more free now than it was
before Obamacare, but now I can't be denied coverage for something I had no
control over, nor can my kids, or the hundreds of thousands of other children
who are denied insurance because of being born with medical conditions. I'm sorry Cindy Sorenson, take your right wing un-charitable
nothing like fighting a straw man to try to score easy points. No one including
Obama thinks anything is free, however, somethings are worth the cost.
Where were Cindy's letters full of concern over the debt when her President
gave us NCLB, Medicare Part D, and 2 wars? If she was really
concerned, wouldn't she have written about that "free stuff" also?
Why was she missing in action during those 8 years?
Joan WatsonTWIN FALLS, IDIf one is so naive to beleive this will
never happen a study of ancient civilizatons will give one pause to rethink the
direction this country is headed.11:22 a.m. Oct. 22, 2012============OK - You brought it up, so let's look at history
civilizations and Nations, but here's where and when they all failed:1. Shunning the poor, the sick and the needy, 2. Starting
OFFENSIVE wars.Conservative values then, Conservative values
now.It's WHY I contend with your sorts daily.I love this
nation, and do not want to see it's failure.
Our Federal deficent that depends on ever escalating taxes, borrowed or
wothless printed money, will weaken America to the point of impotency. If one
is so naive to beleive this will never happen a study of ancient civilizatons
will give one pause to rethink the direction this country is headed.
To all you so called conservatives I ask, how do you think your empty suit
"saved" Bain Capital in the 90's and allegedly turned a profit for
the SL Olympics in 2002? It was from government bailouts, free money from the
tax payer so let's end this hypocritical discussion of welfare and start
insisting that Congress start investing in Main street rather than just Wall
Street. If you want to cut welfare, food stamps and unemployment insurance then
bring back the TRILLIONS from overseas, quit the obstruction and invest in
No one, other than Republicans, are offering "free stuff."The ACA is paid for through premiums and taxes, just like Medicare and
Madicaid, VA hospitals, and countless other programs that rely on public funding
to do important work that the private sector either can't or won't.What concerns me most, however, is this new meme from the right about
how (in their minds) people who call for improvements in public services do so
in the absence of an awareness of the fiscal impact of these improvements.Do you guys really believe that when liberals observe that our schools,
roads, bridges, dams, etc. have suffered from decades of neglect and
underfunding that we don't recognize that serious money is involved in
addressing this neglect? Or that you can't make meaningful progress with
either the deficit or our crumbling infrastructure without an overhaul of our
tax system, and that, yes, taxes will need to be raised if you hope to pay for
all the stuff that desperately needs to be done?Conservatives lately
act as though they believe that civilization just happens without the need for
mutual participation in paying for it.
Sorry, Biff, but your comment about my comment is where the foolishness lies.Please turn off the neocon radio and make an effort to learn the
truth.I know it will require some effort, but you'll find it
worth it if you will try.
Of course the good benefit programs are not free. We pay for them with our
taxes because we believe in taking care of those who need our help. Please join
We need a single payer health system. Payer, of course, is a term that suggests
it is not free. Of course health care isn't free. But we pay way too much
for it, have way too many hands in the pot and don't get anywhere near the
value we should for it. But it's not free. We get that.
Not sure what the point of this letter is, but I guess it's a call for
higher taxes. So, yeah, agreed. One idea everyone on the Right seems to
agree with is that liberals want free stuff. This is, like most things the
Right thinks liberals believe, complete balderdash. One reason we like
Obamacare is that it is responsibly and fully funded. The Right, on the
other hand, is running a Presidential candidate who thinks you can just cut
taxes to the bone and it's no big deal, because 'tax cuts pay for
themselves.' And THAT is the mentality that's led to trillion dollar
deficits. Put another way: Grover Norquist is not a patriot.
We already pay twice as much as the next country for health care. It's
obvious that this "free market" style of health care is far more
expensive and less effective than a single payer system.Get rid of
the middle-man, insurance companies, and watch how much cheaper, effective, and
efficient our health care becomes. Yes, we all know that insurance companies
don't want to see this happen. But we must, for the welfare and financial
stability of our country, do it.
This letter and most of the comments are just typical right wing Faux News (or
even worse, Glenn Beck) regurgitation of "I have insurance, everyone else
can suffer and die". Pathetic.
Cindy says: Consider, however, the cost that the doctor put into his education
in time, energy and actual money. Ask him to give that away for free, and he
becomes an unpaid servant to those he is treating. His investment gains him
nothing.When a businessman, in this case a Doctor, claims he did it
all by himself and therefore deserves all the profit, he is lying. While much
of the Doctors self is of his own making, and much of it paid for in cash, the
most important part of his success came from the opportunity that was given him
by a host of other people both living and dead.Does America and
those other Americans deserve any return on their investment?Why
does one person have the right to become rich just by having the means to take
advantage of the opportunity?
Selective mis-reasoning, again --Why is it you guys always forgot to
mention the 'free' Wars, the 'free' oil, and the
'free' Corporate hand-outs?But go ahead ultra-Cons, keep taking your frustrations out on the poor, sick, elderly and the needy.
One Old Man, I'm glad you piped in with your two cents because that is
about what it's worth. Millions and millions of Americans are on welfare
(and growing under Obama's watch). They not only don't pay their own
healthcare costs, they don't even pay for their own food! Your statement
that we all pay our fair share under Obamacare is utter foolishness.
The left wing is similar to someone who orders an expensive meal in a restaurant
and then acts surprised when the bill comes and they are unable to pay. It must
be someones else's fault, the people at another table, the rich patrons,
the tsunami or even George Bush. Economic reality is nonsense only to those
skilled at spending other people's money.
Gildas wrote: "Consider the sad fact that freedom itself is injured, sick
and dying."That is a statement that we should all have framed
and hanging on our walls. That is a statement that we should FIRST think about
when Obama promises more "free stuff". That is a statement that we
should read when Obama tells college students that education should be
"free". That is a statement we should read when Obama feeds Big
Bird.Our freedom is at state. Every time government reaches into
our wallets and takes a few dollars for another politically correct program that
is not one of the enumerated programs allowed by Article 1, Section 8 of the
Constitution, we should remember what Gildas wrote.Our freedom is
injured, sick and dying. It truly is.
The main problem with health care is that with insurance, co-pays, government
mandates, and now ObamaCare, we have almost completely taken away all the free
market processes that have made many other systems fast, efficient, and much
more cost effective.Nobody asks what something costs anymore. They
don't care, because they are not directly paying the bill. You get a bill
for just a portion of the service sometimes months later. The bill is the same
whether you chose option A or option B at the time of service.Its
kind of like a restaraunt where everyone must pay a set fee at the door for
their food. Everyone wants to eat all they can, even if they are not very
hungry. They want the steak, lobster, and shrimp instead of the salad or
potatoes. Then they wonder why the price at the door seems to keep going up.
Sanitation, clean air and water are part of the "general welfare, no doubt;
all suffer or benefit from the state of the public water supply, the general
atmosphere, and disease from lack of sanitiation. Control of infectious
diseases likewise comes under the same categorisation, unlike some other aspects
of "medicine". However "doctorcraft" should not be publicly
funded and encouraged, though a good surgeon is often very helpful.Whatever the reasons, though, healthcare is too expensive; who can afford it?
If costs cannot be reduced then we rely on charitable donations from the public,
and kind doctors who feel they can and want to afford it. If these are
deficient we are likely, for good or for evil, to have government intervention
in healthcare more or less. I wish we could choose to opt out though - without
penalty. Consider the sad fact that freedom itself is injured, sick and dying.
This letter is total nonsense."Obamacare" requires that we
all take personal responsibility and begin paying for our medical care through
insurance. How can it be "free" when we are all being responsible for
ourselves?Isn't that exactly what conservatives are always
yowling about? But they are prepared to destroy the only advance we've
made in that direction in their efforts to make Obama a one-term president.They're willing to destroy us all to make that happen.
The mentality of the liberals is that as long as someone else is going to pay
the bills who cares?