If the prison is to be moved, let those who would stand to benefit pay for the
move.If this is prime land, let the state sell the land and use the
proceeds to build an other prison, ... IF ... doing so would be profitable.
NSA spy center at Camp Williams would make "SuperMax" prison a nessisity
for new prison. the best place for that would be southernmost part of Tooele
County where escaping would be impossible task.
Yeah... Sell the land, and build another prison.The *new* prison
would cost ~500MThe land is worth ~100MTherin lies the
problem.That huge of a gap... And obviously there are some people
with their hands in the cookie jar... Or *want* their hands in the cookie
jar.When the prison was built there, the South end of the valley was
undeveloped. Now... You have Utah's wealthiest looking down on
a huge eyesore... And developers who cannot build on land that will end up with
millionaires with their back yard fenced off by officers with shotguns and
razor wire... What a move will mean: A *huge* potential financial
loss to taxpayes, and a net-gain for politically savvy developers.And a *huge* total-loss for those who volunteer and work at the facility...
Especially those who volunteer. They provide a lot of benefits to those who will
eventually release.Here is the truth... Most of the thugs will
eventually release.Do you want a guy (or gal) who has spent the last
four years learning how to work...Or a guy (or gal) who has stronger
ties to a gang, and years of idle time...
A primary function of the Draper prison is the care, comfort and well being of
the inmates both male and female.Moving 4,000 humans to a remote
location will have an adverse emotional and physiological impact on 4,000 humans
and their families which cannot be calculated in dollars.Less access
to maintain human relationship is too high a price to pay for more congestion,
increased air pollution, and the loss of a visible deterrent to crime --seeing
Utahns locked up for committing crimes.The prison is only 700 acres.
There are plenty of other 700 acre parcels in Salt Lake and Utah County. The
Point of the Mountain is already congested. Developing another 700 acres will
increase congestion.Moving the prison makes no sense.
I don't understand the comment about the NSA center necessitating a
"super max" prison...Are you under the impression that the
new NSA center is going to cause a lot more Utah folks to get arrested?If someone is charged for a Federal crime, they usually don't stay in
Utah for long, as Utah has *no* Federal prisons...The closest are
here in Colorado. It would be nice to have a Federal Prison in Utah,
looking at the Federal Pay Grade, and benefits scale... A basic Correctional
Officer position pay (there would be literally hundreds of those positions)
starts higher than Utah's median income... And it goes up from there...But the NSA center (your words) "necessitating" a new super-max
prison? I do not think so.That being said...The only
reason this is getting talked about right now is that developers (with
connections) want the land, and they want it cheap...The difference
between the cost of a new prison and the land is ~400M. It is asinine to discuss
that it is even getting thinked about right now...
And... One more thing, for you Utah folks to think about...*Last*
time this came up, and the *huge* financial loss to Utah taxpayers was
pointed-out, politically savvy investors, and Utah politicians for an eye on the
cookie jar (and the money in it) said that they would make-up (hardly) for the
financial loss to taxpayers by "privatizing" Utah corrections.The serious issues in corrections right now? "For-profit" correctional
facilities. They cut numbers of positions, and they cut the pay for those
positions.Cut education... Cut programs... Cut vocational
opportunities... Cut basic medical care...The "private"
for-profit companies write the contracts so taxpayers have to pay for lawsuits
for failing to provide basic care... So even when they fail in court, they
don't have to pay...I personally toured a "for-profit"
facility.No classes. No work details with officers teaching work
skills. Too expensive.The inmates played computer games all day
between mandatory meals. A (one) "GED Graduate" watched hundreds of
inmates play computer games, and lift weights all day long.No
kidding.All day they strengthened gang relations, and idleness and
laziness.That does not fly in *real* "corrections." That is
Good comment, Mr. Red Smith from American Fork...
Socialize the expenses and privatize the profits. Isn't that the key to
anything we do in Utah?
Moving the prison will cost us taxpayers millions, to the benefit of a few
developers (ie, "legislators").CARL - If you put
the prison where you suggest, how do you house the workers and their families?
Do you want the taxpayers to build a small city out there? You also
need courts and attorneys nearby.The prison is fine where it is.
If the McMansions of Draper look down upon it, fine. The prison was there
first -- and many of us still known Draper only as "prison town".
I volunteered also at the prison for 5 years, some of them with Carol Webster,
and saw the good that comes from the Family History, FHE and music programs. I
also have visited a for profit federal prison. Although the physical facilities
were newer, the programs were nearly non-existant. No weekly church services,
or other programs to help the inmates to develop feelings of self worth. As a
volunteer who came up from Utah County twice a week to volunteer I was able to
see the value of the programs and volunteers first hand. This would be a
Here's an idea:Build a new prison right where it is, dig a deep
hole, and build a very tall, partially underground facility that only takes up a
very small footprint. Sell the land around it. Do some thinking outside the
box, create a prison that is different than any other. Do some high-tech
security creation, that makes escape very very difficult if not near impossible.
I don't think anybody cares if it stays there, as long as we don't
have it sprawling across many many acres. Hmmm...let's get
typical Republican legislators in Utah from the Draper-Alpine cabal. They want
cheap land, subsidized by the government for their personal and private profit.
You look at the cost difference and it's outrageous that these money
grubbers continue to push for this.
Terrible idea. I worked at USP for five years. No way would I drive to a
remote part of Tooele county to work. How far is Rush Valley from a trauma
center? There is an LDS Ward, FHE, and LDS institute at Draper. A move would
negatively impact all these programs. The only people who support this are land
developers and Draper city. There is not a location in the state that would not
face bitter opposition. All this would leave to court battles that would drag
on for years. Everytime we tried to build a new halfway house we faced
opposition from the community.
It is past time to oust any legislators entertaining such a ridiculous idea.
Why move it? Why not add on more stories on the same foot print? Save some
money.I doubt the NSA will let any development be done if the prison
is removed. Besides, the NSA is a prison as well so nothing gained by selling
land that can't be developed.
The moving of the prison is a stupid idea. The communities that produce the
crime and criminals need to pay the cost of the prison's presence.There is an invaluable benifit that a significant part of the population can
drive by the current prison on a regular basis and see the cost of crime. There
are few teaching points that a parent can say to a teenager, "You do drugs,
and you end up here for all to see."
The volunteers are making a difference in the lives of the inmates and therefore
saving the taxpayers money. The family history project, the blankets, scarfs and
other useful items made by donated labor helps the inmates and society. Moving
the prison would cost so much more than 400 or 500 million. Think about all the
ACLU lawsuits, EPA requirements, cost of getting staff, the additional costs of
the families of the prisoners to visit. It is one of the worst ideas floated by
the legislature. I passionately oppose it and feel only a few big developers and
maybe legislators would benefit.The congestion and costs would spiral completely
out of control.I hope it is shot down permantly.
There is no good reason to move the prison. Those wanting to do so are only
looking for a way to line there own pockets. It where it is. It works. Leave
Love the prisoner, or face him again. If we are serious about rehabilitating the
prisoner, we must love them, first. If our prisons are no more than places where
we dish out punishment, they hold no hope of rehabilitating the criminal. People
respond to love. And, in this case, they are not likely to respond at all
without it.So, the volunteers are doing a great service to society.
They are injecting into the prison system a need that -- to too high of a degree
-- it goes without if it goes without them. You have persuaded me the prison
should not be moved, not unless another site came open right here within the
city. Rather than placing prisons in remote areas away from the people, society
should place them close to the people, and then, all things being ideal, the
prisoners should be visited. Let's not give up this huge advantage that our
prison here in Utah has above what state prisons in some states offer.
If developers want the land, let them pay to move the prison. Our legislature
should not bilk taxpayers out of hundreds of millions of dollars just so their
developer buddies can make millions. The thought shouldn't even be
entertained by lawmakers.
Considering Rush Valley's current major facility is the now closing TOCDF
and CAMDS facilities those acres of secure grounds would make a nice location.
The perimeter security already exists and has for the better part of 50 years.
There are lots of people in UT, SL, and TO county that make that trip for work.
They don't consider it a hardship to make a good living not too far from
home. The trip wouldn't be bad on a bus or other mode that could be
established to facilitate travel for families.Realistically, the
need to move and upgrade the prison will never go away. It is going to happen
the question is when. It will never get any cheaper to do it than now, that is a
fact of real estate and the growth of the metropolis. The US Government will be
looking to unload the desert facilities to an organization that can be trusted
to stay out of the areas that have become problem areas and the prison would be
a could candidate for that.It makes sense to make the change sooner
rather than later.