Yeah this is the answer... move the prison so we can develop the last square
inch of land in the salt lake valley. That would create more traffic, more
pollution, and more big city problems. Not only that, but the amount the land is
worth is nothing compared to what it would cost to move the prison. Why
aren't more people in real estate if it is this easy to get your state to
bow down to you so you stand to make millions?? This is rediculous.
Would relandscaping the prison so it wouldn't be an eyesore be a better
Re GIldasYou've got something really interesting there.
.. or else do away with prisons. The Old Testament law employed no prisons).
Instead they had a system of restitution to the victims of crime - funded by the
criminal. There were also floggings and capital punishment for perpetrators of
the most serious crimes.The ancient Anglo-Saxon laws, so admired by
Thomas Jefferson, employed a system of fines, hopefully heavier fines for
heavier crimes.For Book of Mormons believers the good king Benjamin
did not suffer his people to be "cast into dungeons".Our
system is an expensive one, as the article states, relying heavily upon prisons
at the public expense, punishing the peaceable and honest part of the
popuylation a second time, and with no guarantee of success. Penitentiaries do
not usually make penitent, nor corrective institutions correct anything, nor
reformatories reform. Fines and restitution can compensate the victims of
crime. An indigent offender could compensate through production of public
services and be freed from that obligation immediately the required compensation
be produced, with no minimum term, learning to work and endure and to repay all
at once.If none of this is acceptable to you, consider that
"home confinement" is an option today and might be extended.
This is a wonderful package from the DesNews today, the two stories and
editorial. You have persuaded me the prison should not be moved. Perhaps it will
be that no matter how much value that land will ever have, the best use of the
property will remain as being site of the prison. Only if we were to find
another site close to those who serve the prisoners should it be moved. I
wondered, as I read the articles, how volunteerism at the Draper prison compares
to that at other prisons nationwide. Anybody there at the Deseret News know? I
would guess some, maybe many, prisons do not have programs where volunteers come
in just to share time with the prisoners.Love is the most important
thing in changing people. What is the old phrase? "I don't care how
much you know until I know how much you care." Well, in this case, the
prisoners don't care that we want them to change unless they first knows we
care about them. Love is not a stock part of our rehabilitation system, though,
and, along with family visits, these volunteers are perhaps the biggest way
prisoners get love.
It is true that if we give the land to a developer for nothing, there will be no
money to build a new prison. If we subordinate the State interest in the land
for development, share the profits and provide for a minimum return on the land,
there is enough money. We would also improve the community as a whole and we do
not need to find a remote area to build. We have a vast space that is currently
of minimal use between SLC and the Great Salt Lake. Buy moving to this area we
can use a land that will never be used, free up prime real estate, build a more
efficent facility that provides better security for the the immate as well as
the employee with close proximity to courts and the airport.
I suppose moving the prison out of the middle of nowhere sounds great. No one
wants to look at a prison or have it close to where they live. But bottom line
it's not just the prisoners and these other factors. You have many
employees that have to run a prison. Most of them make $15-20 an hour and
probably can't afford $500 in gas to commute to work. You also have to
have attorneys and judges nearby as I understand things as well as doctors,
nurses, psychologists and other support personnel. Yes, we have a facility near
Gunnison, but Gunnison is a town and other nearby towns exists to house these
workers. I think any new prison shouldn't be too much of a burden for the
potential workers and others that have to service the prison as it is unlikely
that the state will pony up to pay these people higher wages or compensation for
their efforts and these expenses.
We have already been down this road. The developers and banking cabal in the
state Legislature doesn't have to win every time--only the last time. They
will keep this up until they get their way, with votes, with their cronies in
the right offices, and by wearing down the public. Several years ago they put
together the committee to review this. Result: about 500 million dollars to
move prison with a potential real estate value to sale the land to developers of
93 million dollars. A financially devastating proposal from the point of view
of the state. So, are these legislators defending or advocating for the best
interests of the state? No, they drool about getting land from the sate and
making their big deals as they build their subdivisions and strip malls.The proposal was reviewed, debated, analyzed and denined. Let's
move on to other problems facing our state.
Enriching their cronies at the expense of the tax payer.Welcome to Utah.
Ask why Al Mansell, real estate developer, has his fingers in this project.
It's not because he and his cronies have Christ-like desires for the
inmates. Families, clergy and volunteers are available here to support these
individuals now, and there is absolutely no reason to move the prison for anyone
except those wanting to make money. Our stake president made weekly visits to a
neighbor's son who had made a tragic mistake. If the prison gets moved,
this kind of support will be difficult for many.
Is it a conflict of interest when the leading proponents of moving the prison
happen to be land developers and bankers?
Socialize the expenses and privatize the profits. That's the Utah
GOP's way of doing it.
@BlueYa, you got it. The land isn't worth what it costs to move the
prison, let alone the added expense just to taxpayers. Lawyers, prison
employee's, family members of prisoners are all harmed by moving the prison
to a remote location. The prison is safe, the state does their job keeping the
prisoners in the prison. The only reason to move the prison is so a couple of
well connected developers can build 400 homes with just 3 colors and 3 floor
plans and a couple of strip malls. We shouldn't let it happen.
Real estate developers run the state, so I have few illusions that the state
will do the wise and responsible thing, which is to leave the prison where it
is.The _only_ reason this subject is even being discussed is because
developers and the politicians they own are drooling at the thought of how much
money the stand to make with sweetheart real estate deals between them and the
state - all at our expense.