Comments about ‘East responds to rumors surrounding eligibility issues’

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Published: Sunday, Oct. 14 2012 9:27 a.m. MDT

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BigBenzo88
Herriman, UT

@Prep Fan 89 - I get your point and understand that I have no allegiance to East. My boys play for Herriman so the fact that East my not be in the playoffs actually benefits Herriman.

My point is this and I may not know as much about the situation as you do: I recognize that one player is not more important than another. However, if we are forfeiting a game because an ineligible player played 1 play in the last 1:00 of a game that East was already leading by 48 points...then what are we saying. Are we trying to punish East or are we trying to help East learn from a problem they need to fix. Now, maybe there is more to this than I know...but if I was UHSAA...I wouldn't feel good about forfeiture.

There is the letter of the law and then the spirit of the law.

Uncle Sam
West Jordan, UT

Big Benzo - what we would be teaching East High is that cheating in any form is unacceptable.

eagle
Provo, UT

Provo had to forfeit two baseball games in 2009 I believe because two players had their attendance changed which changed two third term grades for eligibility fourth term. The coaches didn't know about what the players were doing nor did the players until the thing hit the media. The two barely played but they did play. Provo forfeited those games. They didn't look at how much they played in the game (one was a speed up runner and the other pinch hit), they played and the games were forfeited.

Timpview recently had to forfeit their region championship because they used an illegal player. I don't how good the players is and I can't imagine that he impacted every game so Timpview could win. But he did play and Timpview had to forfeit those games.

I think it best that the UHSAA applies the rules like it has in these cases and other similar cases. Whether they want to go "laissez-faire" as I suggested as a possible solution for one aspect of eligibility, that is up to them. So far they haven't...

G Felt
Salt Lake City, UT

I believe Tuesday's hearing is among the Region 6 board of managers. That committee, and not the UHSAA, levied the initial penalties against East. Each region has the primary responsibility of determining the fate of a miscreant fellow region member. That decision is sent to the UHSAA, and its executive committee can affirm or alter the region's decision. The Region's decision may only affect region games and the UHSAA can then apply that decision to non-region contests, too.

Remember, while the UHSAA has an independent staff, the executive committee and board of trustees are made up of school and school district administrators. The staff has to follow the rules created by the board.

The executive committee will discuss Region 8's decision on Timpview in November, and I suppose, they'll also have to review Region 6's, too, perhaps in an expedited fashion since it affects the playoffs.

G Felt
Salt Lake City, UT

By the way, the board of managers consists of the six principals of Region 6.

HS Sport Dude
South Jordan, UT

So all you "Play where you live" folks please let me know how to handle the following situation......Your son loves to play baseball....he is very good....he works at it 10-16 hours a week during the off season. He tries out for a high school that is loaded with talent in his age group.....let's say there are 10 freshman that are great baseball players....and another 10 that are good baseball players and would make any other high school team in the state. The coach keeps 16 of these kids (all freshman) and your son is not one of them. He comes home and says "I want to play High School Baseball"...."I love to play"....."how can I play". You may say....well....let's work very hard and give it another shot next year....but keep this in mind....there are 16 kids his age on the team and 10 of them would most likely start as Sophomores at any other school. The school also has a proven track record of not taking a young man they have cut.

He's going to a differnet school.

What would you do?

CheetahMahi
Salt Lake City, UT

Re-evaluate the policies but open enrollment is in place for reasons bigger than football. Even if kids do move solely to play, great coaching, great programming, and great player development isn't always where you live- and many of these kids play for reasons greater than to entertain you people. Look up a few NFL greats from this state, and you’ll see what I mean.

No doubt in my mind East is one of the best, if not the best, in 4A and because of their success, they can afford some forfeits and still make it to playoffs. @Rational? What backs your statement in this situation? East has been researched and is taking deserved heat for their mistake (honest or not), so it isn't being tolerated. And @BigBenzo88- WHY fire East's principal and head coach for ADMINISTRATIVE mistakes? They're both doing an exceptional job and this is relatively small compared to the successes they've had on and OFF the field.

yankees27
Heber, Utah

HS sports dude- This actually happened to me twice in baseball. Two years ago my son was cut as a Junior because there were kids ahead of him (although don't we all think our kids are the best?) and I told him to go talk to the Track coach. He won the region javelin title that year having never done it before and had a blast. He too loved baseball, but sometimes the writings on the wall. I have a Junior this year who was limited in playing time and he actually made the decision to put more focus on football instead and it's helped him a ton and he's playing that sport very well. My point is, in our rural area, we don't have the choice to go to the next school over in the next neighborhood. Driving a kid to Utah county or Salt Lake every day just isn't feasible for us "play where you live folks". Maybe if your kid isn't good enough to make the team, it's time to give him a life lesson that high school sports are nothing in the game of life.

BigBenzo88
Herriman, UT

@HS Sport Dude - I am a proponent of "Play Where You Live" In your situation I am assuming that out of 20 kids, the son is somewhere between #17 and #20 and therefore didn't make the team and moreover...once he has been cut, he will probably never make the team.

In that situation there are a few things you can do: Visit with the coaches and find out what the son is lacking in and what he needs to improve on if he hopes to make the team the following year. The other option would be to buy a home in another district and move your family.

I would elect to stay at the school because I could never see moving my family because of the athletics of my child...but if I had a preference it would be to physically move rather than live in one school boundary and attend another school. I still haven't wrapped my head around why people do that. I live in Herriman. I would hate for my kids to live in Herriman but attend Riverton, or Bingham or Alta or some other school...but that's just me!!!

BigBenzo88
Herriman, UT

@CheetahMahi - Keep in mind that I do not follow East football and don't have all the facts on this. My opinion that the Principal, AD and possibly head coach should be fired is because I do not believe that the boys should be punished...and forfeiture would punish the boys.

Someone mentioned that the coaches, AD and principals get trained on these things every year and should know better. Principals make over $90,000 a year because they are supposed to make sure that this never happens. Again, I don't all the details, so I don't know what has actually happened. However, I feel that East is the best team in Utah, the best team in 4A and the team that everyone wants to beat. In the end, if East has to forfeit games and miss the playoffs...it would be a failure of epic proportions. What could you possibly say to those 100 young men?!?!?!

I believe that if the UHSAA starts punishing the coaches, Athletic Directors and Principals...you will never see a problem again. I don't personally know the East principal or AD...but they may have let down an entire team!!!!

Golden Helmet
Salt Lake City, UT

It is my understanding that the region principals met this morning at 8 to discuss this and are still in the meeting, here it is 11:51...

eagle
Provo, UT

Sports Dude:

Option 1: Try another sport. We had two players cut from the basketball team come out for wrestling and take state for our program. Life goes on. Wrestling and swimming take everyone. So does Track which would be the alternate spring sport for baseball. When given lemons, make lemonade. In a large 4A/5A school too many aspiring athletes can't make team sports because of a variety of reasons, many of which are unfair say like politics. But in an individual sport say like wrestling, track, swimming, his opportunities are truly his to go where his talents and work ethic will take him. I've coached wrestling, baseball, football and golf, two individual and two team sports, one individual sport (golf) could only take so many players while one team sport (football) kept everyone. Cutting players is always hard, many want to play but can't. But there are other options...

Option 2: If means that much, well move...people do it all the time in other states. Play where you live works well in most states.

CheetahMahi
Salt Lake City, UT

@BigBenzo88-Ok, I understand. You can tell I have a bias in favor of East so I do think firing is too harsh.

yankees27
Heber, Utah

Eagle- well said. That is what I used as an example with my son and how he ended up throwing the javelin and doing quite well. He learned to not let circumstances control him, instead that he controls the circumstances. That is something he learned in wrestling, a sport in which he finished 2nd at state in last year. It's funny sometimes how athletic kids who aren't given much chance in team sports excel in individual sports like wrestling and track.
I could never imagine moving my family so that ONE of my kids could compete at the high school level. Now, if that child had serious Gold Medal potential in a sport, then maybe, but not for high school.

ezrider
salt lake, UT

Before everyone makes a judgment one way or another on this, I think it's really important that we understand the reasons for these players 'ineligibility'. If they were ineligible merely because paperwork was not filed, then should East really be stripped of their games, even though each of these players were in fact eligible except for the paperwork? On the other hand, if they were ineligible for actual reasons of ineligibility, like academics, transfers, or other issues, then the ruling should stand. But 1st, let's understand why these boys were deemed 'ineligible'.

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