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Letter: The vice presidential debate changed my mind about Joe Biden

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  • homebrew South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 16, 2012 4:22 p.m.

    Biden, kicked Ryans but. Everyone knows it. HOW?? By calling him a LIAR. Saying, thats a bunch of Mularky. Calling out Ryan on his lies, the way Obama failed to do in the first debate. I dont think Obama will make the same mistake tonite.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 15, 2012 10:22 a.m.

    Mars, huh? Yeah I figured as much. Well, on this planet things are different then they are on mars.

  • Alfred Ogden, UT
    Oct. 14, 2012 11:26 p.m.

    @WHAT NOW?:
    "If you only had added Republican House members Allen West and Joe Walsh as well as Senate Candidate Republican Todd Akin, I feel your comments would have been even more remarkable."

    I shoulda added that Democrats are egoists as well (excessive preoccupation with an inflated sense of self-importance). That's why Hollywood (where egos abound and often clash) is full of Democrats.

    @mark:
    "Alfred, where do you live? Your post says Ogden, Ut."

    Where do you want that I should live? I could be from Salt Lake if you prefer... or Tucson. Gimme a hint.

    "What planet do you live on?"

    Mars...

    Have you not heard? 'Women are from Venus, men are from Mars.'

  • WHAT NOW? Saint George, UT
    Oct. 14, 2012 3:39 p.m.

    @Alfred

    I too agree that Republicans like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Mark Levin and Laura Inghram and other FOX NEWS intellectuals are and always have been world class examples encouraging civil dialogue and thoughtful comments.

    If you only had added Republican House members Allen West and Joe Walsh as well as Senate Candidate Republican Todd Akin, I feel your comments would have been even more remarkable.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2012 9:18 a.m.

    Alfred, where do you live? Your post says Ogden, Ut. but that can't be the Utah in this world. What planet do you live on?

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 14, 2012 8:18 a.m.

    The Republican reaction to Biden is just like conversatons I had with my kids when they were teenagers and got called out for bad behavior or lying...you hurt my feelings..yea and your point is what? What's amazing is that there are millions of Americans who have had their wages stagnate for two decades, had their company sponsored retirement programs virtually taken from them, had their value added economy stolen from them and changed to a financial economy that only works for a small group of handlers, and still believe that they will be ok..no better off when they turn 70 if they forego social security guarantees and just give that money to the money handlers now. Some how they think that if we just kill medicare and turn it entirely into a private insurance system with money from the govt. that will at least buy the cheapest policy they will be better off. Trust us competition will make it ok. Folks unregulated national markets don't trend to competition, they trend to monopoly..that's how we got too big to fail. You won't be better off, you'll be enslaved.

  • Rynn Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 14, 2012 5:56 a.m.

    How was it any different than Mitt Romney's smirking throughout half of the Presidential debate?

  • Alfred Ogden, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 6:56 p.m.

    @J Thompson:
    "Courtesy and respect are in short supply when liberals have a national audience."

    You hit the nail on the head with your post. The differences between Liberals and Conservatives is essentially as you describe.

    Conservatives (Republicans) are well-mannered and respectful. They conduct themselves in a courteous and gracious manner (presidential in Ryan's case). Liberals (Democrats) are ill-mannered and disrespectful. They are bores and bullies. This distinction came across very clearly in the debate between Ryan and Biden.

    Liberals thumb their noses at rules... Obama's recent negation of Federal immigration laws is a prime example. Conservatives obey, honor, and sustain the laws.

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 6:34 p.m.

    @Curmudgeon:
    "The natural tendency when hearing something ludicrous is to laugh, smile, grimace, or gesture."

    What Joe did is what children do... not adults. Well, adults sometimes do it when they don't have a cogent point to make or defend.

    Clowns in a circus do it, as well.

    @Moderate:
    "Are all the facts out on Libya 9/11? My understanding is that is still being investigated."

    That's right. The Obama administration will investigate til the cows come home. That's their MO when caught like a deer in the headlights.

    "What I have NOT heard is what Romney would have done differently."

    Romney certainly would not have apologized for the film on YouTube in deference to a certain religion's sick rules.

    @Blue:
    "If my candidate were a shameless flip-flopper, claiming to be "severely" of one political ideology one week and then the next week saying the exact opposite, that candidate would lose my vote."

    You want flip-flopper? Check Lost in DC's 12:30 pm post, above.

    "If my candidate belligerently hid his tax returns..."

    How would you respond if he belligerently hid his college and draft registration papers?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 5:13 p.m.

    hatter,

    Dick Morris was once a clinton insider.

    How far did you have to search to find frun?

  • Salsa Libre Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 4:27 p.m.

    J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT

    Geez. A "bore"? A "bully".

    "Does the "ends" justify the "means"? Ever?"

    The leader of the Republican Party is Rush Limbaugh, for heaven's sake. Sean Hannity revels in being a pit bull, albeit of dubious intellect. Glenn Beck speaks to God. Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter specialize in "slash and burn" commentary.

    And then there is Fox News, impartial in commentary as long as that commentary supports the extremist Right.

    Don't forget Grover Norquist: "No tax increase. Ever! Attempting to eliminate deductions is a tax increase!" And his request to have a Republican with functional digits so that he can sign whatever is placed before him.

    And the Republican base eats it up.

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 4:16 p.m.

    lost in DC West Jordan, UT

    "Hatter,
    daily beast? yep, PURELY objective there, correct?"

    David Frum. Former G.W. Bush speechwriter. Former fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

    Should I dismiss Peggy Noonan because she writes columns for the Wall Street Journal and may have a opinion piece in the New York Times or The Daily Beast?

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 3:33 p.m.

    Courtesy and respect are in short supply when liberals have a national audience. They seem to think that well-mannered people will excuse their excesses, that well-mannered people will turn their heads when ill-mannered people can grab the microphone.

    Just the opposite is true. Well-mannered people hold ill-mannered people in contempt. Joe Biden is an ill-manner person. He pretended that no rules existed in the "debate". He pretended that it was his right to interrupt 81 times. He pretended that somehow he was in charge.

    He was wrong.

    America saw that he was wrong. Pundits from both sides saw that he was wrong. In short, he was a "bore". He was a "bully". He was anything except "presidential".

    Many democrats cheer him on. Many tell us that he did what was expected. What does that tell us about "their" character? What does that tell us about the Democrat Party?

    Does the "ends" justify the "means"? Ever?

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 12:40 p.m.

    Look, Democrats loved Biden's performance, and thought he won easily, and Republicans thought Ryan did great, and that Biden was rude/buffoonish. Polls show it more or less 50-50, except the only place it matters, undecided voters. And they overwhelmingly thought Biden won. So Biden won.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 12:30 p.m.

    Moderate,
    the streets were normal just before the attack. THAT does not support the administraton's lie that it was a spontaneous riot in response to a video - a video that had been out for 3 months. Even the state departent disputes BO's lie.

    Blue,
    shameless flipflopper? let's look at BO's constanty shifting positions and outright lies

    doesn't support gay marriage, supports gay marriage
    no lobbyists in his administration
    cut family health care costs by $2500/year
    keep unemployment under 8%
    Obamacare's not a tax
    bush borrowing $4 trillion in 8 years from China's irresponsible, but BO borrowing $6 trillion from China in 3.5 is OK
    close GITMO, leave GITMO open
    prosecute 9/11 masterminds in civilian court, or leave them in GITMO
    put all legislation on-line for 48 hours so the public can see it or pass Obamacare in the middle of the night on a shady procedural vote
    lying about your opponent

    which candidate is trying to significantly lower tax REVENUES? there is a difference between rates and revenues, as reagan showed in the 1980s. you listen too much to BO's lies.

    post your own tax returns on line.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 11:12 a.m.

    Even though Romney/Ryan simply cannot tell the truth, as their plan would fail us all, they are really good guys. Biden, who is more realistic, is clearly the bad guy.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 10:24 a.m.

    Lost in DC, there are lots of things that could cause me to change my mind about the election.

    If my candidate were a shameless flip-flopper, claiming to be "severely" of one political ideology one week and then the next week saying the exact opposite, that candidate would lose my vote.

    If my candidate belligerently hid his tax returns, while demanding that those around him share theirs, that candidate would lose my vote.

    If my candidate made the completely ludicrous claim that by significantly lowering tax revenues and significantly raising defense spending he would still be able to balance the budget _without_ destroying public programs that are vital to the middle class, that candidate would lose my vote.

    My question to you is, what will it take for you to demand that Romney/Ryan address the complete disconnect from reality that is represented by their plans for taxes and spending?

    Do you really believe, as Mr. Romney says he believes, that 47% of the population are moochers with no sense of responsibility for their own lives? Why doesn't that offend you?

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    Biden was doing what VP's are expected to do during the elections. They are the aggressive part of the two, the 'attack dog'. The top of the ticket can then be the populist part.

    It's not Biden's fault that Ryan wasn't up to the task.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 9:49 a.m.

    lost in DC laments "the events of 9/11/12 and the denials from the WH, along with Iran's nuclear buildup show there is currently in place no cogent, practical foreign policy and biden and BO are more than worthy of the scorn heaped upon them."

    Are all the facts out on Libya 9/11? My understanding is that is still being investigated. Perhaps you feel that investigation is not necessary because Fox News already knows it all.

    I have heard Romney criticize Libya 9/11 because it excites his base. What I have NOT heard is what Romney would have done differently. Can you elighten us? Keep in mind, our own Jason Chaffetz smugly said on television, that yes he voted to reduce security funds for the state department. So again, what would Romney do differently while his own party reduces security funding?

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 9:21 a.m.

    The lamestream media have, until the debates, done a great job of never questioning or probing anything this administration has done.

    The debates (watched by 60 million)let America see how/what the candidates are all about.

    I suspect the Obama administration wished they NEVER would have agreed to debates. In terms of election tactics, they have lost a lot of voters now that the lamestream media can't cover for them.

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 8:47 a.m.

    I just hope all the Super-Patriots that Utah is so famous for will continue to show what ultimate-patriots they are by showing respect for the President and respect for the will of the American people!

    It will be a great 4 more years with our amazing President Obama at the helm, I hope people won't be sore-losing poor-sport know-it-alls!

  • Joan Watson TWIN FALLS, ID
    Oct. 13, 2012 8:30 a.m.

    bottom line for many viewers -Biden's performance was a vociferous act - without reality check.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 8:19 a.m.

    Joe was doing his best to not call Ryan out and phrase his responses the way he really wanted to. He doesn't think these serious issues are funny. Apparently, however, you believe he does. I guess the democrats have lost another Utah voter.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 13, 2012 8:14 a.m.

    New York Daily News: "He did a disservice by extending his bluster into real-time issues of security and international relations."

    Chris Wallace: ""I don't believe I've ever seen a debate in which one participant was as openly disrespectful of the other as Biden was to Paul Ryan tonight,"

    US News: "Biden's constant interruptions, smirks, and eye-rolling grimaces backfired on a number of levels."

    ----

    Mr. Biden's "performance" proves that we don't want a clown just one heart-beat away from the Presidency.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 8:09 a.m.

    Hatter,
    daily beast? yep, PURELY objective there, correct?

    Curmudgeon,
    What I saw of biden's comments were no more nor less than what I've seen of BO's campaign ads; lies and distortions of their opponents. That his style was buffoonish only confirms he is unfit.

    Blue,
    I don't for one minute believe that anything could cause you to changed your mind about Biden or BO. Your comment makes it clear you are a standard-issue Dem and you just didn't like the fact that in the debate Thursday Biden revealed himself to be ignorant, doctrinaire, a hypocrite, a serial liar, and woefully unsuited for the office he holds.

    Ryan's behavior was simply that of a mature adult dealing firmly with a lying low-life, and trying to be polite about it on television.

    lowering middle class taxes would destroy them? REALLY?

    the events of 9/11/12 and the denials from the WH, along with Iran's nuclear buildup show there is currently in place no cogent, practical foreign policy and biden and BO are more than worthy of the scorn heaped upon them.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 6:49 a.m.

    I don't for one minute believe that you "changed your mind" about Vice President Biden. Your letter makes it clear you are a standard-issue Republican and you just didn't like the fact that in the debate Thursday Mr. Ryan revealed himself to be ignorant, doctrinaire, a hypocrite, a serial liar, and woefully unsuited for the office he seeks.

    Joe Biden's behavior was simply that of a mature adult dealing firmly with a lying adolescent, and trying to polite about it on television.

    You simply cannot lower taxes, increase military spending, and balance the budget without destroying what remains of the middle class.

    You cannot claim to offer a cogent, practical foreign policy when you are so tragically ignorant of the real world around you.

    Ryan deserved his humiliation.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 5:53 a.m.

    The natural tendency when hearing something ludicrous is to laugh, smile, grimace, or gesture. That's what Joe Biden did when he heard the ludicrous arguments made by Paul Ryan. He could have been more restrained, but then he would have not been his true self. I appreciate his authenticity, if not his style, but more importantly, I appreciate his obvious concern for the middle class and the future of this country, as well as his defense of the Obama administration against the misleading attacks from Paul Ryan. The critics of Joe Biden's performance cannot rebut his stronger arguments, so they attack his style. I prefer substance over style.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Oct. 13, 2012 3:28 a.m.

    Biden was laughing about what Ryan was saying, not the circumstances they were discussing. What is so hard to understand about that?

    "Rude and arrogant." That's what Republicans usually say about Democrats who take the initiative and actually fight back.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 1:13 a.m.

    Alan, stop trying to act like anything was going to change your mind. On just Sept 7, on month ago, you wrote a letter which was published by this paper. It was an anti-Obama rant which ended saying,

    "Just like "the dog ate my homework," all the excuses in the world will not change the fact that Obama has failed and offers no new solutions. In the words of my wise mother, "You can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear.""

    So please, stop acting like you came into the VP debate unbiased and open. You've had your mind made up for months and years. No matter what Biden did this week wasn't going to change you mind. If anything, you're finding reasons to support you own bias.

    Biden was wonderful. Someone needed to plaster Ryan for his lies and stupid plans. And the polls indicate this too. Obama is back in business as Biden clearly beat down Ryan in the debate. A good debate from Obama will put the Romney campaign on the run! Can't wait!

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2012 12:50 a.m.

    It is very doubtful the letter writer really had anything positive to say about Joe Biden. Biden is part of the Obama administration, and to the wingnut fringe, Biden is as hated as is Obama. This is more the work of a troll trying to initially appear supportive and then launching into a diatribe to achieve his real agenda.

    People who liked Biden before the debate, liked him throughout the debate. Yes, it's partisan and it suggests they wanted Biden to run all over Paul Ryan, but they liked it and didn't find his actions a negative. Ryan's people, including the letter writer, were disappointed in his performance and find themselves looking for something to criticize. For them, Biden's performance style was the only thing they could find.

    David Frum of the Daily Beast said that listening to the debate on the radio was very different from watching the video. The actual television broadcast, he wrote, clearly showed Biden dominating and to good effect. The only people (and I mean only people) who were not pleased with Biden's performance were Ryan people. That, apparently, includes the letter writer.