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Letter: Need two-party system

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  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Oct. 7, 2012 12:54 p.m.

    I agree. Political parties are a sham. They make the ignorant appear knowledgeable and allow the apathetic to assauage their guilt for not taking care of their own problems. If you are gullible enough to believe that the Democratic and Republican parties are solving societies problems, just wait for another two or three elections. It will be worse! It doesn't matter who is in charge! Wake up! Government is not the answer and bureaucrats will not solve problems, just manage them. What a poor country indeed! Forget about the Presidential election, make sure the House representatives causes gridlock with whoever wins!

  • GK Willington SLC, UT
    Oct. 6, 2012 8:31 p.m.

    @ Hutterite 5:33 p.m. Oct. 5, 2012

    Curious; Are borrowing & modifying the catchphrase of James Storm (Impact Wrestling on Spike)?

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 5, 2012 5:33 p.m.

    Until the church is on board, sorry about your luck.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Oct. 5, 2012 5:08 p.m.

    @mike richards
    maybe because as you have already been told before the old second district went away thanks to republicans.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Oct. 5, 2012 3:00 p.m.

    @killpack -- I will take your word for it then. However, I think you are basing your partisanship on things that are not quite accurate. Some Democrats did boo at the convention when some wording about God was put back in the platform. It may have been because those individuals don't like God, or, most likely, it was because they either: 1. don't think God should be mentioned in a party platform or 2. Didn't like the process of how the change was being made. You may disagree with either of those 2 reasons, but I think you have to realize that there are a lot of Democrats who believe in God and there are Republicans who don't. I just don't think this is a good reason to become a partisan Republican. As to the Jerusalem issue - the platform originally said Jerusalem should be the capital of Israel. That got taken out and then put back in. No one was booing the city or the fact that Christ lived in the Holy Land. That's why I don't understand your comments about Jerusalem from a religious perspective.

  • boxerdog915 Clearfield, UT
    Oct. 5, 2012 2:57 p.m.

    What!!!!????!!!! A two party system needs to be avoided at all costs and our founding fathers warned us of this. George Washington warned of the 2 party system, saying:

    "It serves always to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another."

    Look at what’s happening! This country is anything but united and I blame the current 2 party system and its “members”. What President Washington said above has happened and is happening. We need to acknowledge the other parties in this country, which there are many, looking to them for leadership instead of fearing them because the Republicans and Democrats are epically failing, no matter how you look at it.

  • killpack Sandy, UT
    Oct. 5, 2012 2:27 p.m.

    Well, I am a partisan now. And you seem to be missing that point. Before this year's DNC, I really wasn't.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Oct. 5, 2012 1:38 p.m.

    @killpack -- Only a partisan would think the Democrats booed Jeruselem. And I think you're the only person I've ever heard say that they did. That's a new one!

  • killpack Sandy, UT
    Oct. 5, 2012 12:59 p.m.

    Wonder,

    I have voted for Democrats in the past. But you are dead wrong in guessing that, before the DNC, I wouldn't have voted Democrat anyway. Why? For the very simple fact, that before this year's DNC, I never said I wouldn't vote Democrat. It wasn't until AFTER the DNC, where I observed behavior totally offensive to my Christian sensibilities, that I vowed to never again vote for a Democrat, ever. Jerusalem is not only considered holy by Muslims and Jews. For Christians, it is where our Lord and Savior was born, it is where He walked and performed miracles, and it is where He was Crucified. When Democrats booed Jerusalem at this year's convention, they showed contempt for a city considered by millions, if not billions, to be holy. I do not care to be affiliated in any way with a party that does that. Before this year's convention, that wasn't the case, though you can keep guessing.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Oct. 5, 2012 9:11 a.m.

    @killpack -- Two things: !. I would guess you never were going to vote for a Democrat anyway, and 2. How did the DNC show contempt for "His holy place of birth"? Strange comment.

  • killpack Sandy, UT
    Oct. 5, 2012 9:10 a.m.

    On the other hand,

    If the DNC doesn't speak for you as a Democrat, then why are you still a Democrat. The DNC is the Democratic party. It doesn't matter where you live. It's time for God fearing Democrats, living in Utah or not, to call themselves something else. When the majority of a group you affiliate with starts to boo God, it would probably behoove you, as a Christian, to no longer affiliate with that group. As a Christian Republican myself, if the Republican Party were to even question the importance of God at any of their own official gatherings, I would be deeply offended and would question my own affiliation with such a group. If a majority of Republicans on the other hand, booed my God, openly and without shame at the RNC for instance, I wouldn't walk, I would run away from the Republican Party. Period.

  • JBs Logan, UT
    Oct. 5, 2012 8:53 a.m.

    We individually believe how we do because of the experiences we have and how we were raised. I appreciate the diversity that each one of us contributes, because if we were all the same things would not be very interesting. I appreciate the debate that comes from the various parties because I believe it makes the country stronger. Debate is what built this country; from the documentation I've read, the founding fathers had extremely heated and spirited debates about what needed to be included in the constitution. None of them got everything they wanted, but they all got something they agreed to and upheld. As we debate what the USA needs to move forward, it seems like it would be helpful to keep focused on the issues, even as we all argue with one another. Instead of lobbying personal attacks at any side, maybe we could try lobbying some well-thought-out solutions along with some respect. Nobody has all the power or all the answers, but working together we can continue to grow and build something wonderful. I think we can agree on some things, so lets look at those more and give the others a rest.

  • On the other hand Spanish Fork, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 7:23 p.m.

    @killpack, the DNC doesn't speak for Utah Democrats, most of whom believe in God and consider Israel an important ally.

    And Jesus was born in Bethlehem, in Roman-occupied Palestine.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 6:59 p.m.

    @Mike Richards

    "Why did Matheson abandon the people in the 2nd district?"
    This isn't true, and you know it. Jim Matheson didn't abandon the people in the 2nd district, the State Legislature gerrymandered away a significant chunk of the 2nd district, so that it bears little resemblance to the historical 2nd district.

    "Why did he abandon those citizens who stood with him as he voted with Pelosi?"
    Truth is, Matheson doesn't vote with Pelosi all that often, and Chaffetz & Bishop occasionally vote with Pelosi, too. As a "Blue Dog", Matheson is one of the most conservative Democrats in Congress.

    "Matheson tried to 'cherry pick' a district."
    No, Utah Republicans tried to make Matheson unelectable through gerrymandering, and he is just not rolling over to their unethical practice.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 6:48 p.m.

    @ lost in DC

    "Hank,
    and BO is going right along with the corporate plutocracy of which you speak with his solyndra and other examples of crony capitalism."

    Yes. He is. Its all part of the plan when you vote for an Ivy Leaguer.

    @ Mike Richards 2:48 p.m. Oct. 4, 2012

    Sayeth the expect when it comes to cherry picking facts.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 6:24 p.m.

    counter -- Perhaps I should have said "critical thinking."

  • killpack Sandy, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 4:19 p.m.

    After this year's totally shameful and disgraceful DNC, I will never again vote for a Democrat, ever. As an LDS Christian, I was totally and completely offended by the utter contempt shown towards my God and His holy place of birth by what was clearly a majority of those present. This was not some radical left-wing gathering of the fringe; this was the DNC! As mainstream and official as you can get for the Democratic Party. Whatever faults the Republican Party may have, I will from this day forth vote for a Republican every time before I vote Democrat. I will gladly wait for something better than the very imperfect Republicanism, but rest assured I will never, ever vote for a Democrat again.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 4, 2012 2:48 p.m.

    Why did Matheson abandon the people in the 2nd district? Why did he abandon those citizens who stood with him as he voted with Pelosi? Did he think that the people of the 4th district couldn't read? Did he think that nobody in the 4th district could check his record? Did he burn so many bridges in tbe 2nd district that he knew that Utah citizens would send him packing in the 2nd district? Where does he live? Why didn't he want his neighbors to vote?

    Matheson tried to "cherry pick" a district. He tries to "game" there system. Mia Love has shown that Matheson was foolish.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 2:39 p.m.

    To the libs out there. Repeating a lie does not make it true. You claim that Utah is a single party state. Lets look at some facts.

    Currently there are 22 state senate Republicans and 7 state senate Democrats. In the House of representatives there are 58 Republicans and 17 Democrats. If Utah is a single party state, why are there Democrats in the Legislature?

    Now, since you don't like it because they don't reflect you liberal ideals, lets take a look at what their conservative leaning actions have done:

    "Utah ranks number one in well-being index" - DN

    "Utah ranks as top pro-business state, report says" DN

    "Utah ranks 4th for child well-being" - DN

    "Personal Income Has Grown More in Conservative States Than Liberal" -The Blaze. Utah ranks #4 in increase

    "Report: Utah's economic outlook improving" - DN

    "Utah tops national economic report" - DN

    "Forbes Magazine ranks Utah 'the best state for business'" - DN

    "In our opinion: Utah's budget success" –DN

    “Utahns top nation in voluntarism; contributions of Utah volunteers valued at nearly $4 billion” -DN

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 2:07 p.m.

    "THINKING is not a Utah value."
    I THINK that sounds a lot like condescension
    So why should I care about the mumbling of a bitter old man?

  • Phranc SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 2:00 p.m.

    @mike richards
    if you asked a "few" of the old second district that agreed with yu then you would be right but since as you point out he has been voted into office for twelve years by the majority of the old second district he obviously did represent them. He could have stayed in the second district but it really would not make any difference since that district along with all the others was chopped up by republican congressmen to insure that anyone that does not march lock step with the most extreme parts of the Utah GOP that have taken over the primary system do not get representation which was the point of the letter.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 4, 2012 12:47 p.m.

    Re: lost in DC West Jordan, UT

    Yes, you are correct. When it comes to thinking apparently only one of the two presidential debaters last night can be accused of committing that act. It is suspected that the other fellow took valium when what he really needed was a Pepsi.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 12:07 p.m.

    Rifleman,
    don't mind the old man. Repeating his insulting comment substantiates that he is oblivious to the bigotry or the hypocrisy of the left. If he were not blind to it, he would recognize what plutocrats BO, reid, and peliso are, and how BO's crony capitalism feeds a liberal plutocracy. See, he doesn't mind plutocrats, just conservative plutocrats. Anything's fine as long as it's liberal. I wonder how often he chants, "four legs good, two legs better"?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 11:25 a.m.

    Ah, Rifle, you prove my point almost daily here. Aren't the one who a few days ago listed a "count" of executive orders that was so far off accuracy that it was simply outrageous?

    Thus I repeat, "THINKING is not a Utah value."

    I just don't buy into the concept that a plutocrat is the know all solution to our problems.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 4, 2012 10:54 a.m.

    Re: one old man Ogden, UT
    "THINKING is not a Utah value."

    To suggest that decent Utah voters who vote according to the dictates of their conscience are mindless robots who don't put any thought into who will best represent them is a condescending attempt to portray a supposed superiority of thought. Not even decent Democrats will buy into that line of reasoning.

    We just don't buy into the concept that government is the know all solution to our problems.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 10:48 a.m.

    Sadly --

    Many are completely satisfied with a North Korean, Cuban, Communist China, Syrian, Nazi Germany ONE Party System.

    Like the Frankenstein Monster,
    The intention was good, but in the end, the consequnces are Horrifying!

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 10:34 a.m.

    Why doesn't Mr Richards substantiate in his eloquent style, what Utah values are? Is it the one that has put money in politics before the well being of it's citizens? Is it the act of selling away our environment to the highest bidder? Is it becoming one of the worst at citizen participation? Is it the absence of the 4th estate at calling out legislation that is copied directly out of the ALEC playbook. Is it cowtowing to the Eagle Forum? No, I reject this premise. I reject the comments about Matheson. He is not a liberal in any shape or form. He voted against Ms Pelosi as Speaker. This is what I mean by lack of the Utah values I grew up with. Values that were kept in check by the citizens of the State. When 1 in 3 vote, calling us a democracy is a stretch. Why is 1 in 3 voting? It's because Utah Democrats have joined the Reppublican party as moderates.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 10:34 a.m.

    How about we have a NO party system. There is a lot more disenfranchised voters in Utah besides democrats.

    Candidate from the workers, renters, bus riders, bicycle people, parents, grandparents and many others never get to run for election because of the cost factor that guarantees that only the rich or business people can mount a campaign.

    Stop campaigns. Let any person post a resume for election to an office. Just like someone applying for a job.

    Eliminate voting districts, run all state and federal elections on a state wide basis.

  • SEY Sandy, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 10:19 a.m.

    Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter that much which side you vote for (or against).

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 9:51 a.m.

    Excellent letter. But it's probably a wasted effort.

    THINKING is not a Utah value.

  • Dave D Pocatello, ID
    Oct. 4, 2012 9:37 a.m.

    What a breath of fresh air this letter is. Are there others like you in Utah?

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 9:32 a.m.

    At least with a one party system, we know who to blame when our taxes go up every year -- Republicans.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 9:32 a.m.

    Curt,
    the idea that someone is disenfranchised because their candidate did not win is ludicrous. I guess that means I have been disenfranchised the last 4 years because BO currently infests the WH.

    But you are correct that the caucus system is a bad way to go.

    Hank,
    and BO is going right along with the corporate plutocracy of which you speak with his solyndra and other examples of crony capitalism.

    RanchHand,
    No, Mike's values are not the only Utah values, but elections consistently show they are the predominant Utah values. So polls show he speaks for MANY more than just himself.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 9:05 a.m.

    @Mike Richards;

    Your "values" are not the only Utah "values".

    Speak for yourself.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 8:43 a.m.

    @ Mike Richards

    Do you live in hthe 2nd like I do? The 2nd is the most liberal in Utah where roughly 5 of every 8 votes went to the GOP Presidential candidate in 2000, 04, & 08.

    I have no problem w/ Matheson. He should keep his constituents in mind & yet stay true to himself. It does fall on the voters to replace him if they don't like his track record.

    **That keeps us from reverting to an 8th grade popularity contest where the candidate with the deepest pockets "buys" popularity.**

    Please. Have you been asleep since McCain-Feingold & Citizens United took effect? The US at one point may have been a Constitutional Republic but has devolved in a Corporate Plutocracy w/ shades of Corporatism.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 4, 2012 7:14 a.m.

    Jim Matheson has had twelve years to convince Utahns that he represents their principles and their ideals. He could have stayed in the 2nd district, but HE chose the 4th district. No one forced him to change districts. Now he's seeing that people really don't want to be represented by someone whose loyalty is to Nancy Pelosi.

    Ask a few of the voters in the old 2nd district how they felt about a Representative who did not represent their values and didn't listen to their ideas. They are outraged that Matheson voted with Pelosi instead of representing them.

    The caucus system is the most pure form of a Republic. America is a Republic. The people choose representatives AT ALL LEVELS to represent them and their ideas. The Caucus is where it all begins. We choose delegates to represent us at the nominating convention. That keeps us from reverting to an 8th grade popularity contest where the candidate with the deepest pockets "buys" popularity.

    Everyone has the right to disagree with how things are run, but the facts show that our system is imaged after the principles of a Republic.

  • JBs Logan, UT
    Oct. 4, 2012 7:13 a.m.

    Amen. I hear this discussion often, but even when there are great candidates in minority parties, such as Jim Matheson and Peter Cooke, they're hesitant to put a vote behind the words. It would be interesting to learn why.