Missionaries not knowing how to work?So you want them to learn from
the (secular) military?Why and how are LDS homes failing so
dramatically to raise children who know how to work?Just for the
record, all my children know how to work, and to work hard and smart. No
authoritarian/military experience necessary!
Good idea. When they come back they will make better soldiers or Marines. God
help us all.
I served a mission and and then served full and part-time in the Army and USAf
for 22 years. I enjoyed many spiritual experiences while stationed around the
world. What happens in the military depends on how an individual behaves. I
made many friends, had numerous religious discussions and learned to love many
of my spiritual brothers and sisters of all races and creeds. My none member
military friends were always looking out for me and explaining to those who
asked questions or made fun of me that I had standards. I also received
valuable and job related training. Its what you make it.
Re: LDS Liberal Farmington, UT"Do you want to know WHY we don't
talk about it ..."Several reasons come to my mind. Vietnam was
nothing to brag about, our leaders couldn't explain the purpose behind our
mission and what we were dying to protect, we lacked the will to win the police
action (war), and we left with our tails between our legs.No, I
can't think of one single solitary reason for bragging about that conflict.
It certainly did nothing to change my conservative mentality about the folks
running the zoo in Washington.
LDS Liberal says that those who have not experienced war first hand are the
first to start beating the war drums, the first to "cry for war". I
believe this is true, and I believe we saw this amply demonstrated in the run-up
to the invasion of Iraq. People like Dick Cheney--who took 6 deferments during
the Vietnam War--or George W. Bush--who could have gone to Vietnam but chose
instead to stay stateside when he was in the Nat'l Guard--were the loudest
and the most insistent in our foolish and pre-emptive rush into Iraq.
I am not sure that everyone should go into the military prior to a mission.
Having been there, I believe too many have temptations that are not easy to be
around 24-hours a day unless you a unless you are founded in solid teachings and
experiences from family and church members.There are too many that
end up on the wrong side of going on a mission. The military teaches some good
aspects for living such as discipline and establishing a schedule of events but
those can be learned at home before graduating from high school and seminary.On the other hand, going on a mission first with the goal of being ready
for that important process in a young person's life, has so much more
advantages. The gospel centered preparation and living Christ's teachings
prior to and during the mission will prepare a person 100 percent for military
service, no matter which branch of service.The temptations are sitll
there but a person is more prepared for the answers and responses of your
comrades in arms. You can be a positive example. Integrity, honesty, morality,
drug type substances and other issues will not be as threatening.
Joseph... good article, but... I'd like to have seen more discussed about
the comment made at the end: "I just feel that I will be a better missionary
because of what I've already experienced in the Marines." Yes.
He's right. Too many young men have not been taught work ethic and when
they become missionaries they don't know how to work. Going into the
Marines FIRST is a great help to the young men and women when they then serve a
mission. I would bet few if any return home "depressed" or homesick or
whatever mental illness is the reason du jour. Marine Corp doesn't allow
such things and works it out of you. As a missionary I noted that every guy who
had been in the military had greater purpose, greater work ethic and
determination to succeed. (I did not serve in the military so was an impartial
I too admire those that went into the military, either voluntary and especially
those who weren't volunteers. Volunteers are important but it took
strength for those that were drafted into service to really serve.As
some have pointed out, it is not an easy place to live and be. When they put
dog tags on you, shave your head and everyone has the same type and color of
clothes to wear everyday, you are in a completely different world. You are
on-duty 24-hours a day and especially in the Cold War, you were ready every
minute of everyday to go to places and do duties that you don't and
couldn't talk about, even with your family.The training in fox
holes, crawling under things and hiding in places you don't want to talk
about, does give one the feel for actual experiences minus the people on the
other side, against you.I think of the things I have done and
experienced that I couldn't share with my wife and the alert times waiting
for a mission or to fly to that remote part not knowing the outcome. People give and gave their all.
Mormons, members of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, are nick-named
after a man in the Book of Mormon who was both prophet and general.
Interestingly, even he temporarily resigned from serving his own armies as
general for about thirteen years, as he considered them to be as morally corrupt
as their enemies.War is destructive and abominable. The leaders on
at least one side of every war are guilty of the death and mayhem it brings. I
pray for soldiers on both sides, including a hope that our leaders avoid unjust
war. Soldiers and our families on both sides suffer as innocent victims. Our
enemies include, given other circumstances, families I would rather give loving
service to as a missionary.Having served a mission in Europe I
believe I became a better soldier. I also learned it is difficult to both fight
and love your enemy.I have a serious warning for those who go to
war. Even in peacetime, military service has the potential to bring out the
worst animal instincts in us. It's not particularly family friendly,
except that the military may ultimately preserve our lives and freedoms.
ute alumniTengoku, UTldsliberalno people that REALLY
experience it, war, really don't talk about it.----------------------So, are you saying that LDS Lib didn't
"REALLY" experience war?Are you making that judgement
because you dislike his viewpoint?
RE: Sfcretdennis, I had the honor of serving our nation for 21 plus years,1975
to 1996.Iguarded airplanes in the jungles of Vietnam and
Laos(NKP)from 1969-70, (Air force infantry) and on several occasions the Paid
Chaplains(sky pilots) would be around for communion, prayers and such for 24
hours. Yet #6. The true church[Mormon] must have no paid ministry.ordain “elders” in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be
blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot
or unruly. (Titus 1:5,6). Missionaries, Elders(presbuteros,) should
be married to one wife to qualify .
Having served a mission and served in the military I am more convinced that the
principles of individual effort, responsibility and loyalty are integral to
life's success. Liberal or conservative, these should be component values
in either political philosophy. To suggest otherwise is subordinating integrity
to party loyalty, a depressingly common practice.
ute alumniTengoku, UTldsliberalno people that REALLY
experience it, war, really don't talk about it.9:03 a.m. Oct.
1, 2012============= Do you want to know WHY we
don't talk about, becuase people who've never been there
don't want to get sick and throw up at dinner.or feel guilty that
they sent someone else's kid into it.You can get anyone
who's been in REAL war to talk, if you get them drunk enough.Pray tell "ute alumni", what branch and where did you serve?or
are your going to just not talk about it?
ldsliberalno people that REALLY experience it, war, really don't talk
I had the honor of serving our nation for 21 plus years,1975 to 1996. My first
assignment was in an all male unit,then I was in units were both men and women
served together and we served as soldiers. No female was ever sexually
mistreated,the only problem I saw was when the weather was changing the men
would be told they could not wear their PT sweat pants but the females could
steel wear theirs our if it was hot the men would be told to remove their work
jackets but the females had a choice to remove or not remove, which was not
right, you could not see anything with the work shirts underneath the work
jacket so if the men had to remove then the women should be required to as will,
this was the only division in how everyone was treated. There were some women
who tried to use their femininity to get over but those were fare and few. 99%
conducted them self's professionally and with honor and distinction. I
treated none of my soldiers under my command differently, they were all soldiers
and treated and expected to act as such.
Kuddos to all those who served.I enlisted AFTER my LDS Mission.I felt a sense of duty to God and my country.I echo the same thing
as NeilT -- Great way to pay for college, see the world, develop job
experience, ect.It also completely change who I am....After
seeing REAL poverty, I learned how blessed we really are.After
seeing REAL war, I will NEVER be the 1st to cry for it.After
being the minority [Religous, Race, Nation],I became more tolerant and
inclusive of ALL God's Children.After wearing the same, eating
the saem, earning the same, and living the same, I learned about Social
Equality.Instead of finding errors and critisizing the Government of
my Country, I became part of and learned to love and appreciate and find
the goodness of the Government of my Country.I went in
ultra-Conservative, I came out a bleeding-heart Liberal.Those
who are the 1st to cry for war, have never experienced it.
The opportunity to be a Missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints and also serve the best country in the world as a military member or
spouse of a military member of the United States of America is great. However,
having done both a mission and serving in the military, the U.S. Army and U.S.
Air Force, as enlisted and also as an officer for most of the time, there are
some things to think about.Serving a mission for the Church has no
limitations and that is what God wants for all young men in the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints. Men and women will be blessed for their service to
God and His children, wherever that may be.Military service brings
with it some choices and some things to think about. Having been in various
positions in wards and branches in various parts of the world, you can still be
a missionary for the people you work with and meet in the local community. You
may be single to begin with, but your family or potential family is something to
think about if you have a career and impact.
Doing away with the all volunteer force is a bad idea. Many are not suited for
military service and would hate it if forced to enlist. I enlisted in the Utah
Army National Guard after my mission. It was quite a shock. There was a lot of
drinking, profanity, and immoral practices in the military. Still is based on
what been in the news lately with all of the allegded sexual misconduct. With
that in mind I have no regrets. I ended up spending 26 years. Best part time
employment one could ever hope for. Earned money for college and I will receive
a small pension in 3 yers. Waa able to travel to places I never would have
dreamed of visiting if I had not enlisted. It was right for me. Again I
emphasize military service is not for everybody and extended deployments can
place severe strain on marriages and families. God Bless America.
My2cents:I am not sure Military brings out the best in ALL of us, but most
of us for sure. My girlfriend is thinking about enlisting, to be
honest the thought makes me sick. Having been a student of military history for
the past 2 years i am well aware of the despicable conditions in which most
women serve; they are often sexually harassed or even raped. Their commanding
officers refuse to bring the perpetrators to task and many women come back with
Military Sexual Trauma or MST which is to date the most debilitating form of
PTSD known to man. While she is LDS i do believe that she is a very low
risk for such things to happen to her, but it is still a concern and something i
do not want her to have to live with.
I commend those serving their country and what ever god they believe in and they
are companion duties and a choice to be proud of. Our laws, our country, our
compassion in wars and conflicts are based by the character and teachings of
right and wrong and justice in our American culture and way of life. Its why we
are the most respected and revered military the world has ever known.This group of americans, not including those selfish foreign mercenaries in it
for personal gain, are our national pride and deserve self satisfaction in all
they do. When religion and mercenaries are hired is the time we loose face and
honor as a nation. Most religions are war tolerant and know that war is godly
and with purpose and always a threat to peace and tranquility. This is why the
american solder is the best American and is the backbone of this nation as a
united force of truth and justice. Every american should serve their
country, do away with volunteers and make a national pride requirement of all
citizens. Military brings out the best in all of us and America is the best
because of it.