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Comments about ‘Vatican newspaper weighs on 'Jesus' Wife' scrap: it's a 'fake'’

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Published: Thursday, Sept. 27 2012 2:58 p.m. MDT

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Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

Although radiocarbon testing on the Shroud of Turin dates it to about the 13th century, the Catholic Church still has taken no position on its authenticity, meaning that the subject is still open.

Now the Church dismisses the "Jesus' wife" fragment as a fake when no forensic testing on it has been done or even proposed. Striking difference, eh?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Whatever....

I still believe He was married with children,
regardless of what the Vatican tells us to beleive.

[He was perfect but was Baptized to set the example, Why not all the other Saccred Ordinances?
We believe His Father is Married,
He said he's done all that the Fathar's done,
and We too should follow.
I just want to know why this is all being covered up?]

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

The Cahtolic Church has a considerable theological stake in the issue, Protestantism not so much, Mormonism not at all. But for Catholocism's celibacy doctrine, it's toxic. But there is reason to be suspicious of purported artifacts purchased on a market, all the more so since the Jesus ossuary hoax of a while back.

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

I tend to agree LDS Liberal with the setting an example part, except...
if he knew his mission would take away the from the time it takes to be a good father to be a teacher to all mankind.
(lots of time away from home on the road.)
...and that his life would be cut short leaving a widow and fatherless children,
...and he would be putting their lives in danger?
...then would he be setting the right example?

Of course this is just an opinion.

Screwdriver
Casa Grande, AZ

The Vatican has zero credibility even among Catholics. Harvard is pretty well respected. It's not surprizing that the Vatican would hold onto a policy they've held for centuries. I believe they just got around to admitting they were wrong to have killed Galileo.

After all : "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved."
-Psalms 104:5

sharrona
layton, UT

Re; LDS Liberal, We believe His Father is Married, He said he's done all that the Fathar's done, and We too should follow.
“Our Father which art in Heaven with, The supreme being transcends space and time. The first goes to pieces if you begin to apply the literal(Mormonism , exaltation) meaning to it. How can a sexual animal really be our father? How can it be in the sky? The *second falls into no such traps. C.S. Lewis.

*J S, Lectures on Faith, Q. What is the Father? A. He is a personage of glory and of power. (5:2.).
*Brigham Young "The Lord fills the immensity of space. What saith the Psalmist[139:7-10]? Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. (JOD v 1 p 49-50):

4601
Salt Lake City, UT

Maybe Harvard should be subjected to some Inquisition type persuasion. Even Galileo changed his mind when threatened with being burned at the stake.

Pendergast
SLC, UT

re: Craig Clark

"But for Catholocism's celibacy doctrine, it's toxic."

Agreed.

at 4601

"Maybe Harvard should be subjected to some Inquisition type persuasion."

You are aware that the current Pope was Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith i.e. the office of the Inquisition..

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT
I tend to agree LDS Liberal with the setting an example part, except...
if he knew his mission would take away the from the time it takes to be a good father to be a teacher to all mankind.

=========

I've pondered that same thing, I can only surmize;

1. The age of marriage in those days was traditionally 14-18 years old. Jesus could very well have been married, had fuly grown children by the time he started his ministry at age 30. One gnostic myth had it John the Beloved could have even been his eldest son.

2. Not the time of place to continue philosophies of man, but Joseph Smith suffered the same fate, about the same age.

FT
salt lake city, UT

Religon is the worst thing that ever happened to God. Faith and true hapiness comes within ourselve. What the Vatican says, or any organized religon, is only heard by those to weak to listen what God created in each of us.

toosmartforyou
Farmington, UT

The scriptures teach that a bishop must be blameless and the husband of one wife. How can that be interpreted any other way than that a bishop is married?

I wouldn't get too upset about what anyone or everyone says about religion, especially those who find it doesn't fit them at all. They are free to worship how or what they may.

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: Craig Clark, The Catholic Church has a considerable theological stake in the issue, Protestantism not so much, Mormonism not at ??
J S, Lectures on Faith, Q. What is the Father? A. He is a personage of glory and of power. (5:2.).And
(JOD v 1 p 49-50): "The Lord fills the immensity of space. What saith the Psalmist[139:7-10]? Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. Brigham Young

“ Our Father which art in Heaven with, The supreme being transcends space and time. The first goes to pieces if you begin to apply the literal( exaltation) meaning to it. How can a sexual animal really be our father? How can it be in the sky? The second falls into no such traps. C.S. Lewis

Hemlock
Salt Lake City, UT

The Christian catacombs in Rome are empty because relic hunters took common peoples' bones and sold them to the gullible across Europe as the finger of St. James, the toe of another saint, the skull of St. Procopius, the spear used to pierce Jesus' side, etc. Before proclaiming something fake, the Vatican should document with the same rigor as Harvard the provenance and authenticity of their own relics. Practice it if you wish, but celibacy is a later addition to religious tradition and has nothing to do with Christian doctrine.

the truth
Holladay, UT

If Christ were married then, What difference would it make?

No he could not have had children for several reason, cheif among them they would have inherited his divine side, He is the Son of God.

So what difference would it have made? HE is still who he said he is, and His Gospel is still His Gospel, and His church is still His Church.

Who are we to decide Christ or Heavenly Father can not have a wife?

It seems to defy reason not to have a wife.

But more importantly it changes nothing, only our understanding of the divinity of the institution of family.

Brent T. Aurora CO
Aurora, CO

I simply accept the fact that Jesus Christ was married. "The Truth" postulates that He couldn't have children without their inheriting Godhood. I disagree. We don't know exactly in scientific terms what DNA was passed from the Father terms of ability to go through the Atonement or overcome death. What we do know is that all of us (all mankind) will be resurrected -- perhaps because we share that DNA from Adam, whose father was Heavenly Father. But like Jesus having siblings, which troubles Catholic dogma as well, which is widely understood among Christian scholars, where it would make no sense to "punish" Joseph & Mary, it likewise makes no sense that Christ would not have the FULL blessings of, and follow, ALL and highest covenants. So again, completely acceptable that He had a wife and family, and then like others in history, left them to serve His 3-year mission.

McKathlin
Traverse City, MI

Even if the papyrus scrap turns out to be authentic, it doesn't prove the Catholic doctrine of celibacy wrong. Christians in the first few centuries A.D. were not united in their beliefs; some groups believed things that other groups condemned as false doctrine. If this writing were found to be of ancient origin, I'd think the Catholic Church could easily dismiss it as the writings of a heretic.

So the reaction of the scholar at the Vatican strikes me as kneejerk. But then, maybe he dismissed it as a fake not because of its implications (which aren't necessarily threatening to Catholicism), but because of its dubious origin.

Dennis
Harwich, MA

What other stance could the Catholic Church make? They have to say it's fake.

sallys
clovis, CA

Some Mormons may be fond of claiming Mary Magdalene was the Lord's wife, but they are completely wrong to do so. Mary Magdalene was a human female, and thus the Lord's daughter, not his wife. With this, as in most things, people would rather look at a scrap of paper than check with the Lord himself. Talk about stupid! If you really wanted to know about the Lord's marriage (which is eternal, and not to a human), you should ask Him about it. But, as usual, most people think they are too smart to do that. The Vatican is actually correct in noting that the Lord often used the metaphor of marriage to refer to his people Israel. This is an indication of the eternal covenant between Him and humans. But I assure you, there was no literal marriage between the Lord God Almighty and a mere human being. Pretty much humans are out of control with their hubris at such a thought. Big surprise. Is there any limit to human arrogance? No.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Brent T. Aurora CO
Aurora, CO
I simply accept the fact that Jesus Christ was married. "The Truth" postulates that He couldn't have children without their inheriting Godhood. I disagree.

===========

A little Geneology can shed some lighton this....

1. His Father was God, His Mother a Mortal. As Latter-Day Saints we are taught that through his Mother he inherited the seeds of death, through his Father, the Power of Life over Death.

1/2 God, 1/2 Mortal

2. Let's say He was indeed married and had children, Sons - to full fill Mosaic Law.
[He came to fullfill ALL the Laws].

He being 1/2 God, and his wife would have been mortal.
Genetically speaking, His Off-spring would then have then had a 25% change of inheriting a sort of Life-Over-Death Immortal Life power of sorts.
Of all the carachters in the New Testament, only John the Beloved - Who has never tasted death, Who was most beloved on the Savior, and told while on the cross to watch over his Mother [Mary Magdelene] and the other Mary [Mary Jesus's Mother, John's GrandMother] -- still fills the bill.

Just my thoughts.

Brent T. Aurora CO
Aurora, CO

LDS Liberal -- just my thoughts. First, science is beginning to learn how to "activate" genetic markers or to "deactivate" them. Certainly God the Father would know perfectly how to do so. You describe the genealogy of Christ... His mother a mortal descendant of Adam and Eve, and His father the immortal Heavenly Father. Let's agree that this provides an "active" genetic proclivity to immortality. Certainly this allowed the Savior to control His death; clinically dead after Gethsemane by standards we understand, He "lives" long enough to be tried, tortured and crucified. And then He is the first to be resurrected. But ALL OF US, every descendant of Adam and Eve, will also be resurrected. Is that in our DNA? Probably so; certainly no one understands how that works except God. But back to genealogy. Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother (one of them at least) are the biological parents of both Adam and Eve. The difference between the three being that Christ was the Firstborn of God "in the flesh" or in a fallen state.

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