Comments about ‘Letter: Questions for understanding far left’

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Published: Wednesday, Sept. 26 2012 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I am a Liberal American citizen because I believe in the American creed. I am a Korean veteran, having served on a diesel boat submarine in the North Pacific near the end of the Korean war. I did not kill a single Korean.

Republican politicians are likely to define a democrat in much the same way they describe the general population. As cattle to be managed. A liberal democrat would be defined as an unruly bull or heifer unwilling to accept their definition.

Lyle could improve his ability to understand definitions.

Socialism: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods.

A better understanding of government would also be good.

Most all government services fit the definition of Socialism. From the military all the way down to the trash service, the government owns the equipment, employees the workers, and manages the operation of the service.

Capitalism, Communism, Socialism are economic systems, not systems of government.

Governments, republics, democracies, dictatorships. and more, may operate their economic system in any way they choose. And may choose several.

Roland Kayser
Cottonwood Heights, UT

I also recommend the "Political Compass" mentioned by SG earlier. I have taken several political identification tests, most of which put me either dead center or slightly to the left of center. The compass test adds another dimension going from authoritarian to libertarian. On that part I score a little ways into the libertarian quadrant.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

A liberal might be compared to Canada. A far left liberal would be more like Sweden.

Ford DeTreese
Provo, UT

So, Des News, why on earth would you publish a letter like this, other than to see how many comments you can get here refuting the silly questions asked? Or maybe you have a secret agenda to expose the utterly ridiculous logic of the far right. If so, you're succeeding wondrously.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Roland Kayser
Cottonwood Heights, UT
I also recommend the "Political Compass" mentioned by SG earlier.

=============

I ran the Compass --
Fell in the Lower Left quadrant.

About right on top of Mahatma Ghandi, Dalai Lama, and Nelson Mandela.

As a side note --
It was also Diametrically opposed to Adolph Hitler, Mitt Romney and surprisingly even Barack Obama.

So much for the President being a called Liberal Leftie....

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

If you go far enough in right field, the centre is far to the left of you. It's all perspective.

Ali'ikai 'A'amakualenalena
Provo, UT

The real Far Left died from self-inflicted wounds over forty years ago. The radical elements advocating extremist socio-political policies grew up. Many now form the New Right with its own extreme socio-political ideology. Many anti-war, draft-avoiding student protesters have become the capitalist, pro-war, neo-con elitists who led us into the Iraq War. Look around, scrape the surface of today's conservative ideolog and you will find a former "liberal" who followed the philosophy of economic self-interest to fame, power, and fortune.

Some of the most successful right-wing talking heads you find on conservative radio once considered themselves "liberal" because it was fashionable in the day. Now they can make more money spouting conservative noise because they were always out for Numero Uno regardless of the prevailing political climate. Wolves in sheep's clothing? Obviously, they didn't really believe what they said they believed then otherwise they would still be advocating moderately progressive ideas today.

So they use terms like "socialist" and "communist" as epithets never understanding what these political philosophies were in the first place. It's all part of the partisan game seeking political advantage.

marxist
Salt Lake City, UT

"You must be talking about someone other than the unrepentant socialist/anarchist felon, who, upon imprisonment for urging draft resistance, desertion, and the overthrow of the United States government during World War I" Yep, that's the Debs I mean - the guy who had the guts to oppose Wilson's diasastrous entry into WWI.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Ali'ikai 'A'amakualenalena,

First, I would love to know what your screen name means. Seriously - I am just interested.

Second, I could not agree more reference some of the talking heads (and some of our politicians as well). They adopt the political label that leads them to power irrespective of what that label is. Offer these types of folks a guarantee of continued power on the condition that they switch to the opposing side and they would take the offer in a heartbeat.

Third, yes there is little real understanding of what some of the labels are we float around. We call people things that we really don't understand and rally for or against things that have little bearing to reality.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "There are really 2 extremes in the world. Socialists on 1 side and Fascists on the other."

No -- Socialist and Fascists are on the same side.

Since WWII, socialists have been trying desperately to define themselves out of that box, but notwithstanding disingenuous leftist/academic blather to the contrary, fascists ARE socialists.

To real people, the only meaningful political extremes are actually responsible, democratic freedom on one end, oppressive, oligarchic, dictatorial tyranny on the other. The means and the ends of both socialism and fascism well into the tyrannical end of the spectrum. Purported existential, regional, and etymological differences are in degree only, not purpose.

Leftist/academic hair-splitting regarding the manner in which governments count their money or the methods they may use to exercise control over any or all facets of society, including means of production, are transparent sophistry at its worst, intended to hide one or another truth about, and thereby unduly improve the image of, whatever brand they're peddling.

HaHaHaHa
Othello, WA

KGB1

Says Lyle as he enjoys his Social Security, Medicare, and military benefits.

If you give me and all others that choose to, the option to opt out of social security, like we have demanded for year, then you and yours can have all those precious benefits all to yourselvs. Aren't you all about CHOICE? I bet Lyle would agree also.

I didn't serve in the military, so I don't get benefits, and don't even know what they are. I have no problem offering benefits to military personnel, to help compensate them for their service. Do you? I know most leftists loathe the military, is that your position?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT
Re: "There are really 2 extremes in the world. Socialists on 1 side and Fascists on the other."

No -- Socialist and Fascists are on the same side.

Since WWII, socialists have been trying desperately to define themselves out of that box, but notwithstanding disingenuous leftist/academic blather to the contrary, fascists ARE socialists.

============

Wrong!

You NEVER learned that in any Accredited College or University, or standard English Dictionary.

For the last time Glenn Beck University stuents --
and listeners of College Drop-outs on the AM radio....

Fascism is FAR-right wing.
Communism is FAR-Left.

The Nazis killed more Communists than Jews, Gypsies, Liberals, Acedamia, Homosexuals, Aborationists, [and every other group of people the Far-Right extremeists deplore] combined...times 10.

and FYI -- Socialsim would be considered Moderate to Moderate Center-Left, maximum.
i.e., England, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Japan, Canada, Israel, ect.
Our closest ALLIES.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "LDSLiberal" you are forgetting the most important part of the term liberal.

"of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism " That seems almost redundant, so lets look up "Liberalism"

Liberalism is defined as "such a philosophy that considers government as a crucial instrument for amelioration of social inequities (as those involving race, gender, or class)" That sounds like big government and social justice to me.

How about we use a thesaurus with the word liberal. The synonyms include progressive, radical, or left-wing.

If we look up the political definition of left-wing or progressive, it comes down to this: a belief in government supplying all of the needs to all of its citizens. Left-wing politics embrace socialism, communism, and other collectivism political/economic system.

So, by following the definition of the word "liberal" in its political context, apparently liberal does point towards government enforced collectivism. If you disagree with me, then you are also disagreeing with various dictionaries too, so, you better write letters to the dictionary people to get them to change the definition too.

Also, those people and groups you claim are liberals, they were concerned with individual freedom and limited government, Conservatives.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

why do we allow such childish drivel to pas for proper political discourse?

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

pass not pas. sorry.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "Fascism is FAR-right wing. Communism is FAR-Left."

Yeah, yeah -- same old socialist/academic pap, bouncing around in the leftist echo chamber, each liberal trying desperately to convince the next that this is the way to shed that old albatross hanging around their neck.

That diametric opposition must be why the supreme leader of the National SOCIALIST German Worker's [Nazi] Party and of fascism, in general, said of its roots, that it took ". . . from the materialism of the Marxist dogma, living, creative Socialism." And, maybe that's why Hitler and Stalin concluded the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact between the two nations, brutally and cooperatively divvying up Eastern Europe between them.

We understand liberal desperation to shine up its brand by shedding the stigma of socialist fascism, even its desperation to disingenuously attribute fascism to conservatives.

But, it won't work, as it's simply counter to all the known facts.

RedShirt
USS Enterprise, UT

To "LDSLiberal" I don't know about you, but history has shown us that there are many "college dropouts" that know a lot more about politics than the college educated professors we have now. People like George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, and Thomas Jefferson all dropped out of college, yet knew a lot more about politics than you seem to know. A college degree does not mean you are an expert in a subject, it just means you went to an institution for a few years.

You also have no idea that Fascists are socialists/communists. The dictionary states fascism is a "movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition." Since conservatives/capitalists want decentralized government and don't want to strictly economics or social that leaves liberals/socialists to fit the mold for fascists.

FYI, the NAZI party platform specifically called out capitalists as being their enemy, and that they needed to socialize industry. They killed of other socialists/communists to eliminate rivalries, not for political ideology.

atl134
Salt Lake City, UT

@procuradorfiscal
"fascists ARE socialists"

Mussolini, a fascist, was a corporatist, where power was heavily wielded by big business. That's not left wing at all. I'd say that you can have left and right wing versions of fascism.

@LDSLiberal
"The Nazis killed more Communists than Jews, Gypsies, Liberals, Acedamia, Homosexuals, Aborationists, [and every other group of people the Far-Right extremeists deplore] combined...times 10. "

There were 5 million Jews killed in the Holocaust, while Russia was the nation with the most casualties at 23 million. That's not a factor of 10, let alone the dubious distinction of comparing systematic genocide to an invading army (albeit one that killed millions of civilians). Just stick to the fact that Nazis targeted communists in addition to the other groups.

@the truth
"Obama is communist"

This comment would be hilarious if I weren't distracted with the fact that it's evidence that our education system is clearly lacking if people are so ignorant of what the word communist means.

Wonder
Provo, UT

I think it's commonly accepted by most people that communism and fascism are on the opposite extreme ends of the political scale, but that's neither here nor there. Obama is neither a communist nor a fascist. If you think he is, I don't know what to tell you other than you really, truly need to stop with the 24/7 Fox News. Seriously. You're making yourself hysterical for no reason.

homebrew
South Jordan, UT

Lyle . Its clear from your post that you are terribly misinformed. Turn the channel. Rush Limbaugh, and Glen Beck, or for that matter Fox news is NOT where you should get real, truthful information. Dont be hypnotized by the LIES

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