Comments about ‘Risk and ambition: Stockton's bankruptcy a morality tale for cities around the nation’

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Published: Saturday, Sept. 22 2012 4:00 p.m. MDT

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Sometimes it would be nice for people in UT to be grateful for and recognize all the tithing dollars that flow into the economy from members outside of UT.

Bountiful, UT

Lesson learned here?

All it takes is one clueless leader and an entire organization can be run into the ground.

Wasatch Front, UT


It was neither just the unions or greedy management that caused the financial meltdown: Let me point to a few of the guilty parties (it is a long list):

Greedy management, greedy employees, naive and greedy borrowers, individual land and housing speculators, FNMA, Freddie Mac, developers, appraisers, loan officers, real estate agents, borrowers, regulators (SEC, the United States Congress, private sector self-regulatory bodies, etc.), CDS originators and dealers, large insurance companies such as AIG, MBS dealers and originators, pension fund advisers, large Wall St. investment banks, local, regional and money-center banks, individual consumers who over-levered, etc., etc.

It was NOT Wall St or greedy corporations. In fact, most corporations did not directly participate in the real estate or financial/derivatives at the heart of the collapse. Most corporations kept borrowing down and their balance sheet clean. They were prudent, unlike just about everyone in the housing sector, and many in the financial sector that supported/enabled them. Thank Heaven for prudent corporations. Their clean balance sheets and the jobs that this saved are about all that we have going for us right now.

Don't buy into the anti-corporate garbage the left is selling...

the truth
Holladay, UT

@ Allen#2

Of Course "Trickle Down" work,

Microsoft is prime example,

It created several billionaires 12000 millioniares. and about 100000 very paid employess,

then it tricked down some more,

creating an entire industry that is ans was creating windowd software and windows/pc products,

making hundresds of thousands rich and all ythis incrtesing and making the middlec class stringer,

then tricked down some more

making all out lives better snd easier, from grade schools kids leaning on the pc abd playing games , to sollege wsing the power of computers from writing papers to research,

and all the businesses using wondows ans pcs to do business ansd make money,

that trickes down some

because those kids ans those businesses vreate more jobs ans businessses.

YES, trickle down works

would it have worked if the government took microsoft's money away?

-@Ultra BOB

no it wasn't bad business deals, that is just silly,

it is greedy unions taking and not caring what their greed would do in near future.

you need like 17 workers to pay the pension of one retiree,

where are all workers going to come from to pay for all the retirees pensions?

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Ah unions, the source of all evil . . .

Of course folks with more than 2 years of accounting have been telling cities and states for decades that they were headed for trouble. Why?

Because they hired folks promising to pay some now (salary) and some later (pension) but never put enough money away to pay the pension.

So now there is a problem. One that cities and states have been warned about since I can remember (and I remember when the first Star Trek was not a rerun).

Provo, UT

As my grandpa used to say "Don't count your chickens until they start laying." The problem lies with government units that fail pay their bills first then see what you have left to spend on wishes, Second study past economic cycles then look at least 10 years down the road before seeking borrowed money for projects. Every year there must be realistic budget reviews and adjustments. Contracts with workers need to have adjustment clauses to fit current financial conditions. States, cities and families easily go bankrupt with out sound fiscal policies in place. Now add the Obama care burden and see the bankrupcy numbers increase.

Saint George, UT


RG commented...

"...Mitt cannot do anything "by himself"; he will require a cooperating congress...".

romney mocked President Obama's comment that we are all in this together.

romney built everything himself.

romney needs no cooperation from anyone.

However, romney will receive the same cooperation President Obama received from repubs.

Stall, obstruct and fillibuster a ala (sic) repub senate minority leader mitch mcconnell worked well for repubs.

Look for Democrats to follow the same strategy.

What goes around, comes around.

RG continued...

"...But if people will follow the ideals Mitt has set up...".


romney indicted 47% of Americans who don't pay federal income tax.

American Military Service personnel, the elderly, the disabled, as well as students who are working to become federal income tax payers are among the group the sneering plutocrat romney dismissed as being unworthy free loading Americans.

And these people are supposed to follow romney's ideals?

RG concluded...

"Stockton may have been a "perfect storm" but fiscal conservativism would have prevented its bankruptcy...".

Voters have learned that fiscal conservatism exists only in the talking points of deficits don't matter cheney/rove repubs who will do/say anything to get elected.

Ultra Bob
Cottonwood Heights, UT

@The Truth.

I am having difficulty finding any information to support your statements, could you help please.

Saint George, UT


Should read Ideals.


Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: WHAT NOW? Saint George, UT

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and their legislature put a leash on their public unions to prevent a similar scenario in their state.

Pres. Reagan fired each and every PATCO union employee who went on strike, and no, he didn't allow the repentant ones to come back.

California, the state that wanted to borrow against future lottery revenue income to pay yesterday's bills.

Manteca, CA

Totally not factual. My husband works for Stockton Fire...this article is sickenly misrepresented and not based on facts. The past City Council who agreed to these so-called lavish perks started a fund JUST FOR pensions...and the current city council lied and used it for their marina! Everything has always been funded but the money keeps "disappearing". Then you see articles such as this that are sooooo wrong! Our money has disappeared for years and we have nothing to show for it...then we have to answer to this nonsense, it's so crooked! The only reason anyone in PD or FD has EVER earned over $100,000 a year is because of OT...and that's because the city refuses to staff at state and government mandated levels. Fact is that many times these guys are FORCED (or else) to come in on days off no matter what they have going on because the city is too lame and holding on to their fluff money to staff up to safe levels, so of COURSE they earn OT, then they're trashed for it...? Ridiculous!!!! And, NO ONE is retiring with those benefits. Lies!!!

SAlt Lake City, UT

And how will this proposed new city of Millcreek survive? The economic environment is jsut not right for a new incorporation; splitting away and promising a new city can do it better. History is the great teacher and example of the future. Vote NO to city of Millcreek

Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: LG72 Manteca, CA

I have zero sympathies for the public unions and the liberal politicians that support them. Why should they be exempt from the same misery inflicted on the unemployed by our inept government leaders, both state and federal?

Like Bill Clinton said, "It's the economy, stupid". People vote for the liberals and then wonder why they are worse off now than they were 4 years ago.

Mcallen, TX

Where ever you find liberals, poverty abounds.

Those who voted in the liberals will collect entitlements from those who didn't.

Like a liberal, I'll whine and say it's not fair.

Mcallen, TX

As Mr. Spock would say:

"it's illogical to spend yourself to bankruptcy".

With proper management, no state, city, or nation would be in debt. None!

Salt Lake City, UT

My opinion as to fault or reason for failure on municipal/state bankruptcy centers on any elected official who promotes "services" which he/she defines as essential to or for the public good. SLC is promoting a hotel, saying it is essential for growth in tourism and conventions. If another hotel is so essential, why hasn't one of the present hotel companies started building more rooms? Consider the idea of moving the State Prison, essential for a dream-state silicon corridor that will offer a cornucopia of jobs, tax revenue and mega profits for the cohorts of state legislators.

How did we old people ever make it to adulthood having lacked so many "services" and programs? Many, if not all the now essential programs or services can be identified and even provided by and through charitable organization. Arrest the bad guys, put out the fires and fix the streets. Expect and demand adult behavior from the citizenry. Read whatever you want into the last part.

American Fork, UT

Cities and states and banks should be run by old scotsmen. People who neither lend, borrow or promise money easily. People to whom debt is a personal relationship. People who know bad weather always comes. I keep most of my assets and liquid cash out of the United States because there aren't enough old scotsmen running things.

Taylorsville, UT

In this country with all its checks and balances in government spending and funding why aren't the arrogant politicians ignoring the laws and perpetrating this fraud not being punished and thrown in jail?

This arrogant spending and waste should be met with criminal accusations and convictions for the millions of lives they destroy by their actions.

Utah is following this same arrogant path of destruction and all the warning signs and red flags are fling like exploding 4th of July fireworks bursting in the night sky.

Risk and ambition is breaking down accountability and responsible political leaders, Utah is on the fringes of destruction and they don't intend to stop this criminal governemnt fraud. Utah is now 40 years beyond even remotely trying to predict revenues for the next 40 years. We don't even know what the yearly revenues will be and governor is spending and kicking state debt down the road like its a game. We are a state of >3 million americans and half a million undocumented foreign nationals suckling for indentured servitude.

All is not well in Utah and this state of many nations,(Mexico, Africa, China, Asia, Europe) all wanting their cut of the pie.

Idaho Falls, ID

Hmmm, was a Democrat in the White House in 1929 at the beginning of the Great Depression? No, Herbert Hoover a conservative Republican was in the White House. Was a Democrat in the White House in 2008 at the beginning of the Great Recession? No, George Bush a conservative Republican was in the White House. Maybe it's just me, but I see a trend here.

m.g. scott
clearfield, UT

Hmmmmmmm, was a Republican in the White House in 1980 when there were gas lines, 20% interest rates, and inflation going up. Maybe it's just me, but I see the need for a conservative Republican in the White House. Not a Bush and certainly not an Obama.

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