Published: Saturday, Sept. 22 2012 4:00 p.m. MDT
Messing with the pension is going to hurt the poor more than the lessor amount
that receive $100,000 or more. I sense a desire to return to pension raiding
that took place in the 80's. If you make a contract, you stick
by it.First hand I know of another problem. Stockton in the past 15
years has had a huge immigration boom, some legal, some illegal. They were
building schools as fast as fast food buildings. Police, fire, utilities it
overloaded their support system.What does Greece and Stockton have
The people in the "private" sector got greedy. And then some people in
the public sector got greedy. But the people in the public sector that had
little or nothing to do with this were the police, firemen, public school
teachers and most city employees. Unfortunately it sounds like they will pay
the price for the mistakes of others.
"From California to Pennsylvania, places like Stockton and Scranton run out
of money"And they will vote for Obama; Obama will bail them out
and you and I will get stuck with the bill.
It's become taboo in many of our discussions to criticize public servants
such as firemen, police officers, etc. Some just can't bring themselves to
believe that people who put their lives on the Iine for the public good cold be
part of the problem. Truth is, they are just as susceptible to greed as the
rest of us (especially through their unions) and spiraIing pension costs are
causing many businesses and governments to cut back or declare bankruptcy (e.g.,
USPS). Michael Lewis actually wrote about Stocktn specifically in his book,
Boomerang, over a year ago, detailing what occurred there and how they're
trying to deal with it. He did it as a warning for what is to come and called
for us to make changes now. I heartily recommend it. It's a fascinating
and quick read.
It was a lot of things, not just union pensions. Mismanagement, growing to fast,
then having the economy go bust. The easiest people to go after is the pension
holders.If you don't think bad management can't happen
here, look at Utopia and the big unfinished skeleton on Orem's state
These bankrupt cities were dominated by liberal policies....need we say more why
liberals shouldn't be in power?
The union's and the mantra of stick it to them man! Has come back to bite
them hard. It is time to bring the wages and retirements to levels of the avrage
private sector worker. Yeah it sucks but getting something is better then
nothing. Because the tax payers can move an the tax base can dry up and this is
what you have left.
Gadiantonism, pride, and sub-replacement birthrates all portend increasing civil
strife and a genuine existensial threat everywhere.
When as a country will we learn to live within our means. Shame on those who
mismanaged tax payer money and more!
Maybe its time to cut out the money and billions of dollars funds they are
sending to China and Mexico and pay it to the state workers who can multiply
every dollar they get paid into a 7 fold windfall to the economy. Instead of a
city collecting taxes on fewer dollars, they can increase the tax collections to
the state budget 7 time more than they have now. Sending money and
funds to dead-end economic losses, they must turn it around and keep it at home.
Why help Asian and Chinese and Mexico's economy at the expense of our
economy? It just doesn't make any sense the the billions and trillions this
country is throwing away. Its time to switch off these economist
irresponsible cut costs mentality and switch the spending to spend money into
the local economy. Trying to save a dollar is costing $10 dollars in economic
loses.Economist in government don't see the relationship of
feeding the US economy and keeping Americans working and the foreign economy.
People, stop pinning this as a party problem. People all around the
table--liberal, conservative, private, and public sector--all contributed to the
problem. We let our eyes get bigger than our stomach and wouldn't listen
to those with reason until it was too late. We'll solve this thing once we
stop looking to blame the other side and instead assume the responsibility to
figure out how to solve our problems.
So, how many UTOPIAs did these cities participate in?How about some
new laws that make civil employees on the same par as bond holders?How about we don’t let business scams destroy our local government?
Stockton is one of many cities that failed to plan for the long term, and live
within its means.Utah has generally avoided the municipal and state
budget problems seen elsewhere, though we were not unscathed. Highland
(northern Utah County) got a little proud and naive and built a huge new city
administration complex, and now their taxpayers are paying the price with a 40%
property tax hike since 2007.We lived back east and saw the
overspending problems everywhere. Key culprits were: 1) Public sector unions
and information asymmetry. The unions knew the law and had better PR than the
taxpayers who they gouged. When city/state leaders pushed back, the unions
would appeal directly to the public (just like in Stockton), and regularly won
this battle. They would even use May/June tax hike votes to make sure that the
union and its sympathizers would have the most at the polls. 2) Benchmarking
salaries/benefits/buildings/services to other naive and fiscally irresponsible
cities/states.Whenever you see union/collectivist shenanigans or
benchmarking as the primary driver of an argument, it is a red flag and a
"From California to Pennsylvania, places like Stockton and Scranton run out
of money"And they will vote for Mitt because he will fix
everything, by himself, real fast.
It the police and teacher unions say to Stockton and Scranton to build a
baseball stadium using city funds. I mean the field of dreams turned into the
field of nightmares. And then Stockton wasted more taxpayer money on some river
front development and I think Scranton also did some stupid taxpayer paid
development either--all to "attract" tourists. I mean, you're
Stockton, CA. People only visit you if they have relatives. Note to Scranton,
you're Scranton and the only time people want to see Scranton is on
"The Office." I'm not saying that these wouldn't be good
places to live and work and raise a family (of course not now) but you are what
you are. The reasons pensions and such are eating up so much of the budget is
of bad decisions in other areas. I can see where people might think
police, firefighter or teacher unions are evil or whatever. But if these people
were paid a decent wage in the first place, like they should, maybe a promise of
pensions and health care wouldn't be needed as some way to entice people to
the profession in the first place.
What Now Says: "And they will vote for Mitt because he will fix everything,
by himself, real fast." Well, sort of. Mitt cannot do anything "by
himself"; he will require a cooperating congress. And it might not happen
"real fast," although I would expect some results within 4 years, which
is better than Obama has given us. But if people will follow the ideals Mitt has
set up, we can avoid becoming Greece. If we keep spending ala Obama, we will
become Greece. Stockton may have been a "perfect storm" but fiscal
conservativism would have prevented its bankruptcy. Can liberal spenders learn
from this example?
Still playing the blame game?It was Ronald Reagan's economic
adviser who stated in 2010 that he and his party, the GOP has destroyed the US
economy. Lots of blame to go around.The federal government is on
the same path to destruction as Stockton and I would vote for either party who
said they will make the hard decisions and fix the budget and or deficit.According to Mitt and Paul Ryan their budget will increase the deficit
by 1.2 trillion over 8 years and Pres Obamas budget will increase the deficit
$800 billion in the same time frame making neither party fiscally
responsible.The sad thing is Stockton like many other tax paying
entities in California have contributed their federal tax dollars to Utah and
other states as the entire state of California is a positive tax base whereas
Utah has a negative tax base and we receive more fed taxes than we pay.
Maybe we should be slower to the judgement seat about places like Stockton.People need to understand we take and use more in our society than we
can afford, when we understand that then we can begin to address the real
Protecting the middle class? Liberal policies drive out the middle class and
punish those that remain. When liberals like Rahm Emanuel take office and become
responsible for paying the bills, they look like Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin.
Bad fiscal policy eventually comes home to roost; some trite comment about no
free lunches becomes not so trite.
Oh UTOPIA where thou are:There are eleven cities in Utah that will have
their Stockton moment, Murray and West Valley, suckered at first 18 cities, 7
took a deep breath and passed, good thinking.The other eleven will now pay
for the remaining thirty two years to buy their blue skythey had a new
business model, sure they did, they bonded future sales tax revenue to buy these
bonds, unless some stroke of luck changes they will pay as high as three million
a year, you do the math, was it worth it? Again if it fails as it is, the
taxpayers are on the hook. City councils and Mayors made these decisions, and
now the gee! golly! whizze's are flying about, who would have thought?,
certainly not them. It's worse than the iProvo scheme."The most
dangerous Government is close to home"......Cicero
Republican "Trickle Down" policies have NEVER helped the middle class
whereas Democratic "liberal" policies have NEVER helped the very
rich.Why do many residents of Utah blame the "unions" and
never speak of the greedy management?Was it the unions or greedy
management that caused the financial meltdown?
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