Published: Thursday, Sept. 20 2012 12:00 a.m. MDT
Republicans talk a good game about fiscal responsibility whenever Democrats are
in power. When Republicans are in power the slogan changes to: "Reagan
proved that deficits don't matter"--Dick Cheney
Democrats may at times give lip service to LDS values, but until I see them
embrace and promote self-reliance, I can't take them seriously. Just
saying the words "self-reliance" in this forum is enough to make some
Democrats howl.In the same way, I can't believe Republicans
when they talk about fiscal responsibility. When they had the presidency and
both houses, they spent like drunks."By their fruits ye shall
know them." If you want my support, you're going to have to show me
you really mean it.
"I was disappointed that one LDS value, that of frugality, was missing.
"It was under a Democratic president that we last balanced the
budget and began to pay down our vast debt, which was then about $5 trillion.
But then a Republican took office and claimed this money to be "your
money" and started giving back tax revenue, especially to his wealthy
friends. That same administration increased spending as much as his Republican
mentor did twenty years earlier which returned us to the borrow and spend
tactics of the 80's that got us where we are today. That is the difference
between Republicans and Democrats, regardless of what their stated platform is.
News Flash: Republicans love Big Government too. They have found it works for
them. They are also not frugal.
Dale - frugality isn't a "republican" value alone either. It is
the prioritization of where to spend, and where not to that the two don't
agree upon. There are both Red and Blue states that have balanced budget
requirements, that were created under the framework of both parties control.
The city I live in because it is highly influenced by higher education is a left
leaning city. But at the same time, the city spends huge amounts on attracting
business to the city. It is about balance, who should burden the
cost, and who should sacrifice the cuts. At the national level, while the
Republicans run constantly on a platform of reduced spending, the reality has
been more an anti taxes platform rather than a reduction in real spending
platform. No Republican administration has actually reduced spending nor
balanced a budget.The differences are less so the "what" ,
but are in the "how". Even on the issue of abortion, more than 70
percent of Democrats are against abortion on demand, and more than 50% against
liberalizing abortion rights according to Pew research. The fringes
(ie Barney Frank, Limbaugh) like to amplify the differences to promote
themselves, not the country.
I personally know Crystal and her husband and family. You couldn't ask for
kinder people. If all of the democrats I knew were like them, then I would be
supporting their efforts more. Work on weeding out the ones that have hijacked
the party with their extremists views, and you would see the party gain
I assume the Democrats do the same as the Republicans, hold their noses at
things with which they disagree.I cannot recall any Republican
candidate with whom I have been in 100 percent agreement. Same with the
national platforms. So, I assume my Democratic brothers and sisters will do the
same.Will it be easy for them? Probably not in some cases.But, especially in a year in which there is an LDS candidate on the Republican
side, showing a little diversity in political views is probably healthy for the
church and for its image (that we are not all in some sort of lock step).So . . . I wish them well. Perhaps it can also lay some groundwork for
increased dialog and cooperation in the future. We will need that.
Being "frugal" doesn't mean you throw the poor under the bus to
save the cost of their transportation.
Re: "The line about Democrats 'strengthening families, helping the poor
reach self-reliance, etc.,' caused me to ask myself if Democrats really
believe and strive to practice those things?"It's not that
LDS Democrats don't believe those things -- most do -- it's that the
Party doesn't. The spin required to convince themselves and other people
that the Party will stand up for things they believe in is what makes it so
difficult for LDS to be Democrats.Honest LDS Democrats admit the
Party has simply lost its way. We wait patiently for the day it can be shamed
back into reality, but, in the meantime, we vote something other than Democrat
-- particularly on national issues and candidates.Whenever you hear
an LDS Democrat mouthing the old saw, "I'm a Demcrat because I'm a
Mormon," you can rest assured he/she is a Democrat for some other reason --
family tradition [my excuse], political necessity [can't get elected other
wise], economic necessity [job depends on being Democrat], etc.
Nate, if you're looking for "fruits" to use as a metric for belief,
then look at the job growth rates of Democratic administrations vs. Republican
administrations.Also, compare rates of growth in overall federal
spending, and overall growth of the total federal deficit among Democratic vs.
Republican administrations during the last 50 years.Democrats
choosing to invest in national infrastructure, our children's health and
education, tax fairness and the well-being of our nation's poorest citizens
_is_ in fact an act of frugality, because we know that failure to invest in
those things is a guarantee for a very expensive and extremely unpleasant
"Don't tell me what you value, show me your budget and I'll tell
you what you value."If Republicans value frugality, their
actions sure haven't proved it. Both parties like big government, when
they are the one in power. Both parties clamor for smaller government when they
are the minority.
Regardless of the party affiliation, it all boils down to which candidate
delivers the goods needed by the state or by the nation. Right now Mr. Obama
has overwhelmingly been all talk and no action as evidenced by the last four
years. Let's get real and go with the best evidence we have to work with
if we want to save America. Mr. Obama has such a far left agenda he could not
undo the damage he has done. He neither wants to nor has the ability to undo
the disaster America now faces created by his far left big government and big
spending record. Mitt has the track record and he will fix the disaster he must
tackle. As Governor he did what was needed, with the Olympics he did what was
needed, at Bain he was amazing. You may not like ridding a company of dead
wood. That's just how it goes. As Governor, his state had the highest
rated education performance in the nation. America must go there in order to
catch up. Mitt will get it done.
The surest test of what works and what does not work: Research the relative
financial solvency of the states with largely Republican leadership versus those
managed by Democrats. I won't give you the answer. Find it for yourself.
Blue writes "and overall growth of the total federal deficit among
Democratic vs. Republican administrations during the last 50 years."Admittedly, I have not gone thru and done the math. i assume that you
have.But I would bet that if you take out the last 3.5 years that
your whole premise goes out the window.Would you take that bet?
"Honest LDS Democrats admit the Party has simply lost its way."I think that is a given. The question is can honest Republicans also
acknowledge that their party has been equally been hijacked? It is for that
exact reason that you now see that the largest single voting block, even in
Utah, are independents. It is not they these people, I am including myself
here, are wishy-washy can make up their mind types. Rather it is that neither
party represents their core values. Most people, if they will honestly look at
either party, will find areas that they don't agree with.Yet in
today's world of "RINOism" and I am not sure whet it is called on
the left-ism, you are excluded from the parties processes if your don't
support the parties most stringently defined platforms. And therefor, many,
like myself decide to lend their support to neither. When the parties start
accepting a duplicity of people, stop insisting on signing "packs", stop
always voting along party lines, then they will again see a vibrant American
government again... of the people, by the people - not a a single party.
Repubicans? Frugal?HaHa, hardy har-har!Holy Cow!Look at the out of control spending of every single Repubican President
going back to Nixon...They SAY they don't like spending, but as
ECR so sell ponted out -- Bill Clinton was the ONLY one who cut spending, cut
the Decifiet and Balanced the Budget.Obama COULD have, but for 2
reasons....1. Bush played a Nero - light the economy of fire and
fiddle as it burned to the ground.2. The Republicans in Congress has ONE
goal, and One goal ONLY for the last 4 years --- Trash AMERICA and make Obama a
one term President. [Treason as far as I'm concerned].Save the
schtick about Repubicans being frugal for AM radio programs.
Procuradorfiscal: I'm a democrat because I'm mormon. Not because
family tradition (all republicans), not political necessity (I'm not a
politician), and my job does not depend on me being a democrat (defense
contractor)But there are other reasons, like you said: I want what's
best for this country, I know that supply-side economics is a dismal failure,
and I prefer the small gains in employment and the economy over the huge losses
from the result over the Bush years. There are lots of other reasons I am a
@procuradorfiscal -- I'm not a Democrat for any of the reasons you
mentioned. I used to be a Republican and I left the party when it became clear
that the candidates I liked were deemed to be RINOS by the current crop of
Republicans. My disillusion with the party began when I heard Rush Limbaugh
call 12 year old Chelsea Clinton a dog and I thought, this isn't a nice
guy. Then he became the de facto leader of the party and all Republicans began
to genuflect to him and his radical, mean brand of politics. That isn't
me. I don't like the rhetoric and I don't like the Ayn Rand worship
that I see in the party. I also saw that Republicans ran up debt when they were
in office, but railed against debt as a means to obstruct when they were out of
office. When the neo-cons started pushing for wars against everyone in the
middle East, it was the last straw. Republicans just don't represent me.
There are no moderate Republicans any more, but there are moderate Democrats, so
that's what I am.
Mrs. Young-Otterstrom sounds like a good, kind, decent lady. But she's
naïve or in denial if she thinks that today's Democrat party supports
the values she claims to hold as a member of the LDS Church.The
Democrats' "support" for many of her listed values is in reality a
corrupted version -- one which results in the exact OPPOSITE effect. The
Democrats implement many of her listed values through a form of government FORCE
which runs roughshod over individual freedom.This coercion destroys
private property rights, wealth, and the honest incentive to work hard and be
self-reliant. It also goes against the very free agency that Mrs.
Young-Otterstrom probably claims to believe in as a member of the LDS Church.
It's letter and comments like these from the radical right --That let
me thank God Almighty that MOST Latter-Day Saints are not Republicans, Not in
Utah, and not even Americans!
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