Comments about ‘Letter: Rethinking democratic values in an LDS framework’

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Published: Thursday, Sept. 20 2012 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Roland Kayser
Cottonwood Heights, UT

Republicans talk a good game about fiscal responsibility whenever Democrats are in power. When
Republicans are in power the slogan changes to: "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter"--Dick Cheney

Nate
Pleasant Grove, UT

Democrats may at times give lip service to LDS values, but until I see them embrace and promote self-reliance, I can't take them seriously. Just saying the words "self-reliance" in this forum is enough to make some Democrats howl.

In the same way, I can't believe Republicans when they talk about fiscal responsibility. When they had the presidency and both houses, they spent like drunks.

"By their fruits ye shall know them." If you want my support, you're going to have to show me you really mean it.

ECR
Burke, VA

"I was disappointed that one LDS value, that of frugality, was missing. "

It was under a Democratic president that we last balanced the budget and began to pay down our vast debt, which was then about $5 trillion. But then a Republican took office and claimed this money to be "your money" and started giving back tax revenue, especially to his wealthy friends. That same administration increased spending as much as his Republican mentor did twenty years earlier which returned us to the borrow and spend tactics of the 80's that got us where we are today. That is the difference between Republicans and Democrats, regardless of what their stated platform is.

Midvaliean
MIDVALE, UT

News Flash: Republicans love Big Government too. They have found it works for them. They are also not frugal.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

Dale - frugality isn't a "republican" value alone either. It is the prioritization of where to spend, and where not to that the two don't agree upon. There are both Red and Blue states that have balanced budget requirements, that were created under the framework of both parties control. The city I live in because it is highly influenced by higher education is a left leaning city. But at the same time, the city spends huge amounts on attracting business to the city.

It is about balance, who should burden the cost, and who should sacrifice the cuts. At the national level, while the Republicans run constantly on a platform of reduced spending, the reality has been more an anti taxes platform rather than a reduction in real spending platform. No Republican administration has actually reduced spending nor balanced a budget.

The differences are less so the "what" , but are in the "how". Even on the issue of abortion, more than 70 percent of Democrats are against abortion on demand, and more than 50% against liberalizing abortion rights according to Pew research.

The fringes (ie Barney Frank, Limbaugh) like to amplify the differences to promote themselves, not the country.

Liberal Ted
Salt Lake City, UT

I personally know Crystal and her husband and family. You couldn't ask for kinder people. If all of the democrats I knew were like them, then I would be supporting their efforts more. Work on weeding out the ones that have hijacked the party with their extremists views, and you would see the party gain traction.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

I assume the Democrats do the same as the Republicans, hold their noses at things with which they disagree.

I cannot recall any Republican candidate with whom I have been in 100 percent agreement. Same with the national platforms. So, I assume my Democratic brothers and sisters will do the same.

Will it be easy for them? Probably not in some cases.

But, especially in a year in which there is an LDS candidate on the Republican side, showing a little diversity in political views is probably healthy for the church and for its image (that we are not all in some sort of lock step).

So . . . I wish them well. Perhaps it can also lay some groundwork for increased dialog and cooperation in the future. We will need that.

RanchHand
Huntsville, UT

Being "frugal" doesn't mean you throw the poor under the bus to save the cost of their transportation.

procuradorfiscal
Tooele, UT

Re: "The line about Democrats 'strengthening families, helping the poor reach self-reliance, etc.,' caused me to ask myself if Democrats really believe and strive to practice those things?"

It's not that LDS Democrats don't believe those things -- most do -- it's that the Party doesn't. The spin required to convince themselves and other people that the Party will stand up for things they believe in is what makes it so difficult for LDS to be Democrats.

Honest LDS Democrats admit the Party has simply lost its way. We wait patiently for the day it can be shamed back into reality, but, in the meantime, we vote something other than Democrat -- particularly on national issues and candidates.

Whenever you hear an LDS Democrat mouthing the old saw, "I'm a Demcrat because I'm a Mormon," you can rest assured he/she is a Democrat for some other reason -- family tradition [my excuse], political necessity [can't get elected other wise], economic necessity [job depends on being Democrat], etc.

Blue
Salt Lake City, UT

Nate, if you're looking for "fruits" to use as a metric for belief, then look at the job growth rates of Democratic administrations vs. Republican administrations.

Also, compare rates of growth in overall federal spending, and overall growth of the total federal deficit among Democratic vs. Republican administrations during the last 50 years.

Democrats choosing to invest in national infrastructure, our children's health and education, tax fairness and the well-being of our nation's poorest citizens _is_ in fact an act of frugality, because we know that failure to invest in those things is a guarantee for a very expensive and extremely unpleasant future.

Darrel
Eagle Mountain, UT

"Don't tell me what you value, show me your budget and I'll tell you what you value."

If Republicans value frugality, their actions sure haven't proved it. Both parties like big government, when they are the one in power. Both parties clamor for smaller government when they are the minority.

Rikitikitavi
Cardston, Alberta

Regardless of the party affiliation, it all boils down to which candidate delivers the goods needed by the state or by the nation. Right now Mr. Obama has overwhelmingly been all talk and no action as evidenced by the last four years. Let's get real and go with the best evidence we have to work with if we want to save America. Mr. Obama has such a far left agenda he could not undo the damage he has done. He neither wants to nor has the ability to undo the disaster America now faces created by his far left big government and big spending record. Mitt has the track record and he will fix the disaster he must tackle. As Governor he did what was needed, with the Olympics he did what was needed, at Bain he was amazing. You may not like ridding a company of dead wood. That's just how it goes. As Governor, his state had the highest rated education performance in the nation. America must go there in order to catch up. Mitt will get it done.

PGVikingDad
Pleasant Grove, UT

The surest test of what works and what does not work: Research the relative financial solvency of the states with largely Republican leadership versus those managed by Democrats. I won't give you the answer. Find it for yourself.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

Blue writes
"and overall growth of the total federal deficit among Democratic vs. Republican administrations during the last 50 years."

Admittedly, I have not gone thru and done the math. i assume that you have.

But I would bet that if you take out the last 3.5 years that your whole premise goes out the window.

Would you take that bet?

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

"Honest LDS Democrats admit the Party has simply lost its way."

I think that is a given. The question is can honest Republicans also acknowledge that their party has been equally been hijacked? It is for that exact reason that you now see that the largest single voting block, even in Utah, are independents. It is not they these people, I am including myself here, are wishy-washy can make up their mind types. Rather it is that neither party represents their core values. Most people, if they will honestly look at either party, will find areas that they don't agree with.

Yet in today's world of "RINOism" and I am not sure whet it is called on the left-ism, you are excluded from the parties processes if your don't support the parties most stringently defined platforms. And therefor, many, like myself decide to lend their support to neither. When the parties start accepting a duplicity of people, stop insisting on signing "packs", stop always voting along party lines, then they will again see a vibrant American government again... of the people, by the people - not a a single party.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Repubicans? Frugal?

HaHa, hardy har-har!

Holy Cow!

Look at the out of control spending of every single Repubican President going back to Nixon...

They SAY they don't like spending, but as ECR so sell ponted out -- Bill Clinton was the ONLY one who cut spending, cut the Decifiet and Balanced the Budget.

Obama COULD have, but for 2 reasons....

1. Bush played a Nero - light the economy of fire and fiddle as it burned to the ground.
2. The Republicans in Congress has ONE goal, and One goal ONLY for the last 4 years --- Trash AMERICA and make Obama a one term President. [Treason as far as I'm concerned].

Save the schtick about Repubicans being frugal for AM radio programs.

omni scent
taylorsville, UT

Procuradorfiscal: I'm a democrat because I'm mormon. Not because family tradition (all republicans), not political necessity (I'm not a politician), and my job does not depend on me being a democrat (defense contractor)
But there are other reasons, like you said: I want what's best for this country, I know that supply-side economics is a dismal failure, and I prefer the small gains in employment and the economy over the huge losses from the result over the Bush years. There are lots of other reasons I am a democrat!

Wonder
Provo, UT

@procuradorfiscal -- I'm not a Democrat for any of the reasons you mentioned. I used to be a Republican and I left the party when it became clear that the candidates I liked were deemed to be RINOS by the current crop of Republicans. My disillusion with the party began when I heard Rush Limbaugh call 12 year old Chelsea Clinton a dog and I thought, this isn't a nice guy. Then he became the de facto leader of the party and all Republicans began to genuflect to him and his radical, mean brand of politics. That isn't me. I don't like the rhetoric and I don't like the Ayn Rand worship that I see in the party. I also saw that Republicans ran up debt when they were in office, but railed against debt as a means to obstruct when they were out of office. When the neo-cons started pushing for wars against everyone in the middle East, it was the last straw. Republicans just don't represent me. There are no moderate Republicans any more, but there are moderate Democrats, so that's what I am.

PeanutGallery
Salt Lake City, UT

Mrs. Young-Otterstrom sounds like a good, kind, decent lady. But she's naïve or in denial if she thinks that today's Democrat party supports the values she claims to hold as a member of the LDS Church.

The Democrats' "support" for many of her listed values is in reality a corrupted version -- one which results in the exact OPPOSITE effect. The Democrats implement many of her listed values through a form of government FORCE which runs roughshod over individual freedom.

This coercion destroys private property rights, wealth, and the honest incentive to work hard and be self-reliant. It also goes against the very free agency that Mrs. Young-Otterstrom probably claims to believe in as a member of the LDS Church.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

It's letter and comments like these from the radical right --
That let me thank God Almighty that MOST Latter-Day Saints are not Republicans, Not in Utah, and not even Americans!

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