DevishUte It would have been better to have your starting qb, and your right
they have won 8 out of the last 11, that makes sense when it's always the
most important game of the year for the Utes, I guess BYU should put more
emphasis on the game. Believe me I thought the Cougars stunk up the place they
even came out flat, now I don't think they'll do as good this season
as I thought, bottom line were not very good right now, watching that game made
me realize that. That should also tell you where your Utes are, since we still
had a chance to win playing like that. MLH - The Cougars can't
beat the Utes? Hmmm is that why your fans storm the field? do they do that with
everyone that can't beat them? Here's a fact If Utah didn't have
those mistakes BYU made they would have lost, so yea they won but Utah has to
have Turnovers to win, BYU wins easily if the turnovers were equal. So Utah can
only beat BYU when they benefit from the turnovers! That should worry you!
@ DuckhunterThank you for your entertaining display of insecurity. I do
not coach lttle league (or whatever) football like you, but I have an excellent
facility for numbers and statistics which (I refer you to the book
"Moneyball") can be very valuable.A law of coaching,
investing and many other disciplines is not to extrapolate too many conclusions
from one game/investment/etc. as you do in your "real analysis". My
analysis, which draws on many games and trends (e.g., all the ex-Ute NFL
players) is not only more valid, but has gone unanswwered by you, along with my
original question of why you only blame Bronco for BYU's inept results.
dnay,You have proven yourself to be a true BYU fan. Using the
"if" to explain away a loss....."If this" or "if
that." I love it. Count how many "ifs" you used in your comment.
Ha!Utah did not have its starting QB, star RB, and 2 starting
safeties and still won. I am especially pleased with the clear trend being
established - 8 of the last 11 and 3 in a row.
It's funny how proud the Utah fans are after this victory. If it were the
other way around I wouldn't say anything knowing that I didn't win the
game but happened to come out ahead. Your proud of a win after the gifts you
were given and you still almost lost, actually if that had been reversed BYU
wouldn't have just won that game, it would have been a 2 touchdown victory,
and if it wasn't I'd been embarrassed not coming on here saying how
great we are. It's amazing you guys talk about this like they controlled
the game from start to finish, your blind to the fact you got lucky to win. I
didn't brag up how great BYU was when the Cougars beat Tulsa last year. It
was a victory I was happy, but I also realized we could have as easily lost to a
team that we should have beat further. You all claim to be realistic and say it
how it is, but you can't see this game for what it was a game you were very
fortunate to win PERIOD!
Duhkunter"Regarding the talent gap, let's examine some
objective facts. Utah was playing without their original starting QB, without
their star RB, and without their star safety. BYU had all their "stars".
Yet Utah won. Other objective facts indicating a talent gap may exist:Utah
has 22 current alums in the NFL, BYU has 7 (ha ha... yes 7).Utah has won 7
of the last 10 encounters and the last 3 in a row.I assume BYU will
not be "up" for the Utah State rivalry game because, according to your
logic, said players are not capable of motivating themselves and Bronco
doesn't do it. So Utah State should handily beat BYU."aggie
1 had some facts wrong. It's not one starting safety, it's 2, both of
whom were Freshmen All-Americans and instead of 7 of the last 10 it's
really 8 out of the last 11. Despite all of these starters missing from the
game, Utah still won. Unfortunately for you, when I correct his inaccuracies,
his case becomes even more compelling. Please respond to this post and quit
avoiding it like you have for the past several exchanges.
@1aggieOh if we all had your wisdom. I think what is apparent here
is that you are simply a "fan" and have no real knowledge of football or
talent. You see when a person is actually capable of making true analysis of
what occured in a game and why it occured then they are able to have actual
coherent opinions. When all one is capable of doing is claiming "20 year
abberations" or "the brethren are fine with it" one exposes oneself
as not really knowing anything. That is just commentary pitifully designed to
elicit an emotioanl response.Real analysis is this.utah
never once sustained a scoring drive. BYU did. utah gave up more yards
defensively and more points defensively. utah scored less points offensivel and
gained less yards offensively. This would indicate BYU's talent, now and
for the future, you know LONG PERSPECTIVE, is equal to if not greater than
utah's.utah won, good for them they should be happy about it,
but things happen and studying why they did is best left to thinkers. You should
just spend your time celebrating.
"The biggest mistake was inserting Riley Nelson into the game and promoting
him to the status of legend."High comedy! The same thing
happened last year with Hypes!
The biggest mistake was inserting Riley Nelson into the game and promoting him
to the status of legend. He is a below average qb with a lot of determination.
That means nothing in football! His ball is so wobbly, it really is crazy. Doman
was a horrible play caller. If you are going to run the option, use a bigger,
stronger, faster qb that can throw ie, Hill. Also, start Williams at tailback.
Anyone that thinks Alisa is a quality option doesn't know football. Alisa
is slow, slow, slow. A temporary fix for last year, but top talent should play.
That is why bronco will never take us (BYU) to a BCS game or compete nationally
because he plays on merit rather than skill. 8-4, just like I predicted.
I would like to replace the word "are" in my last post with the words
"seem to be". There's an important difference and I did not mean
to say that I know what they think.
BYU's defense did fine, except on the long TD pass. The offense was
uninspired. Doman's play calling really stunk. He kept running that
option play that did exactly nothing. BYU obviously didn't plan this game
well. Bronco will make all the CEO talk about not executing, etc. I'm
frankly sick and tired of hearing that. I want to hear Bronco say that it was
his fault due to not emotionally preparing his team for the game. Game
preparation involves more than X's and O's.Doman appears
to have the same problem his predecessor did. Go conservative in a big game.
Utah had too good of a defensive line for Nelson to try to live in the pocket.
Should have put in more misdirection plays, roll outs, and plays that are
designed to freeze up a line like Utah has. Again it appears that Doman needs
some schooling on being an offensive coordinator.Nelson does it best
when he's on the Jazz. Should have utilized #21 more.
@DuckhunterIf you want to do a minute by minute talent analysis I
suppose it's your prerogative, but that is clearly not what I was talking
about in my original post when I said "the "talent gap" is beginning
to become apparent ... and I expect will become more apparent in the next few
years." Utah was holding out two of its biggest stars though and had they
stepped onto the field I suppose it would have blown up your analysis. But
clearly I was talking with longer perspective.I am reminded of the
story of the blind men and the elephant. You are like the blind man holding the
tail of the elephant and asserting that elephants are like snakes while avoiding
all evidence to the contrary. This explains why you will not answer my
questions to you.For somebody with perspective and a long-term view,
I can see that except for a 20-year aberration (when BYU had one of the best
coaches ever) BYU has always lost three quarters of its games with Utah. It was
always that way and it is that way now. The Brethren (many whom are Utes) are
comfortable with that.
duckyNo Blechen,No Rowe,No John White, No problem.The Utes best talent at critical positions were on the sidelines and
they still beat the "talent" laden cougs. "Realize" that!Go Utes! ASU is next.
Neither team looked very impressive. If both teams continue to play like that,
Utah will be lucky to get a bowl bid and BYU will not make my 8-4, worse case
scenario. (I picked them to go 10-2, but 8-4 was worse case scenario.) I
congratulate the Utes on the victory. Star was amazing. I really thought
we'd be able to neutralize him like the Aggies did. Were the
refs replacement refs? They were awful for both teams. What was
wrong with Nelson? Not only was it the worst game I have ever seen him play,
but his charisma / leadership was gone by half time. I watched him from the
third row last year in the Armed Forces game, and I knew we were going to pull
out a game winning drive. He was motivating his team on the sidelines. Against
the Utes, his head was hung in defeat when the score was 7-7. BYU's
offensive line was terrible.Nelson's 4th and forever throw to
Hoffman and the drama at the end, made it an exciting game. Two out of three
years, we lose because of a field goal.
@1aggiePast players now in the nfl is irrelevent to the players that
currently constitute these teams. 3 point games are indicative of close overall
talent levels although not the only factor. Anyone watching the game saw that
BYU's defense was extremely fast and very good. The FACT that utah never
put together a sustained scoring drive indicates that BYU's defense was
vstly superior to utah's offense. The FACT that BYU had several sustained
drives against utah's defense is prrof that there is no talent gap
there.What BYU seems to lack is confidence and fire. I'm not
sure why that is but I tend to attributethat to coaching and the attitude the
coaching staff takes toward game preparation. I am a football coach and in my
opinion utah's staff does a much better job of preparing their team
emotionally than BYU's staff does. This gives utah a decided edge. In the years utah has better talent that edge results in decisive
victories. When BYU has better talent the games are close but BYU generally
wins. When the talent is even that is utah's edge and they win, like this
The only talent gap I saw was BYU's being a lot better that Utah's
with the exception of the defensive line.What I saw was a better
team playing scared. Scared of what?! What's going on in the team meetings
that makes them play so scared!? How come the coaches can't prepare them
better?The U's offensive line is really bad. BYU got a lot of
pressure and sacks and they don't ever do that not even against Weber
State. BYU's o-line is really bad at run blocking but do an ok job at
pass-pro but Utah's can't do anything.Overall BYU is a
talented team with ZERO attitude and will continue to pump out 10-3 seasons.BYU will win out the rest of their games except will lose to Notre Dame
cause they will play scared and Notre Dame looks pretty good this year. They
will also lose to Georgia Tech because Bronco has a history of being baffled by
the triple option.
@Jazzsmack"The fact is there is very little "talent"
difference between BYU and Utah, the big difference is coaching and
coordinating".I think "talent gap" much more plausibly
explains the 22 current Ute NFL players to 7 Cougs.We saw how a
healthy Utah team performs against BYU last year. This year we saw that a hurt
team can still beat a healthy BYU team.
The fact is there is very little "talent" difference between BYU and
Utah, the big difference is coaching and coordinating.
the BYU offensive line coach is just bad, the line has talent but they are
wer bad last year and now this year, it's coaching,BYU
must be passing team to have any offensive success, by atleast ration of
60/40they must average atleast 12 yards a pass for real offensive
success that is coordinator problem , BYU is not an option team nor a
running team even inspite of having an occasional really good running backas a coach Bronco is great defensive cootdinator when not running the
garbage he ran a new mexico. but the offense has never been
motivated or inspired.and they have the wrong quarterback (a bad
coaching decision). Lark should have been the QB last year and be the QB this
yearBYU fans are tired of low scoring offenses, losing to the best
teams, and especially losing to the U or only just barely beating them sometime
(they haven't had a dominant win in over a decade and a half), and no BCS
bowl game ever.
This is becoming an annual refrain, even from the sports writers. "Utah
didn't beat BYU, the Cougars beat themselves!" Give me a break. Both
teams had good plays. Both teams made major mistakes. Both teams had bone-headed
penalties.The bottom line is BYU had three tries to put the game
into overtime at the end and couldn't do it. Utah won the game.Anyone who says one team dominated over the other, or one team made more a ton
more mistakes than the other, or one team self-destructed, is disillusioned and
@ DuckhunterI know that yes you put the blame on the coaches. But
why just the coaches? Are the BYU players so immature that they can't
motivate themselves for an in-state rivalry game? And shouldn't the people
who hired (and keep paying) the bad coaches have some blame too? Regarding the talent gap, let's examine some objective facts. Utah was
playing without their original starting QB, without their star RB, and without
their star safety. BYU had all their "stars". Yet Utah won. Other
objective facts indicating a talent gap may exist:Utah has 22 current
alums in the NFL, BYU has 7 (ha ha... yes 7).Utah has won 7 of the last 10
encounters and the last 3 in a row.I assume BYU will not be
"up" for the Utah State rivalry game because, according to your logic,
said players are not capable of motivating themselves and Bronco doesn't do
it. So Utah State should handily beat BYU.
@aportsfanforlifeYOu realize utah could easily wind up with a losing
record this year don't you? That isn't just some BYU fan pipe dream,
that is cold hard reality. It was a 3 point win and BYU missed as field goal to
tie the game. utah never once drove the ball the length of the field for a
score, not once. Their scores came on 3 short fields and a botched snap they
picked up and ran in.I can certainly understand you wanting to get
your licks in on BYU fans but when you charge someone with making "stupid
comments" you probably ought to look in the mirror.
@duckhunterHAHA! even aggie fans are telling you the talent gap is
showing hahahaha."But please tell me where was this so called
"talent gap" apparent to you? Was it the utah wr's? They performed
far worse than the BYU wr's"uhhh up until that fluke 47
yard play on 4th and 13 utahs wr's were outperforming yours. but dont let
that fact get in your way of making hilariously stupid comments time and time
I agree with you Duckhunter. This statement about Riley kills me. I
admit I am the anti-Riley. But he truly needs to step down from the starter
role. "Nelson, playing with an injured back, completed 17-of-35
passes for 206 yards and two touchdowns."If he has an injured
back why is he playing? Doesn't Bronco have a responsibility to keep his
QB safe? I understand Riley will play injured or not. But if reporters,
coaches, players, and fans are blaming Riley's poor performance on his back
injury, why was he in the game? We don't have a prayer against the tough
teams ahead if our QB can't perform. Wake up BYU and bring in
Andy Reid. Maybe Provo can help him through the grieving process with his
son's passing. Bronco this not just another game. You're
inability to coach in pressure situations is embarrising for the program. Please fix it!
@1aggieSo are you claiming that BYU didn't perform horribly?
Are you claiming utah performed well? Neither of those is the case, in fact as I
said it is exactly the opposite and yes I put the blame on the coaches.But please tell me where was this so called "talent gap" apparent to
you? Was it the utah wr's? They performed far worse than the BYU wr's.
Was it the rb's? Once again BYU's rb's out performed them. Was it
the rushing defense? Uh BYU's was unquestionably better. Was it the Passing
defense? Who held who to less yards?BYU actually had the edge in
every statisical categorie, although admittedly the most important one, the
final score, they did not. But please explain where this "talent gap"
was evident? I'm confident you cannot and are just blustering away.
We'll see the aggies in a couple of weeks and we'll see if there if
you try to claim a non existant "talent gap" there as well.
@DuckhunterWhen playing the "you didn't beat us, we beat
ourselves" game, why would you stop at the coaches? Who hired these coaches?
Why BYU can't hire better coaches? Why can't they play in a BCS
conference? Why can't they recruit, and retain the best players?Of course once you undertake a more accurate, holistic analysis, simple
explanations like "it was Bronco's fault" don't tell the whole
story. BYU is beating itself alright, but in many ways.By the way,
the "talent gap" is beginning to become apparent (to those who will see)
and I expect will become more apparent in the next few years.
This was an incredibly inept game for BYU, and even at that they had their
chances, probably should have won. But they didn't and it has to be blamed
on the coaches. Why Bronco thinks that he doesn't have to take this game
seriously and get his team fired up for it is beyond me. The pessimist in me
say's that he really prefers to lose this game just because he dislikes the
fans so much and wants to put them in their place. Of course that isn't the
case but he is definately wrong in how he prepares his team for a big game. It
is also time to replace Weber, he is a terrible offensive line coach, extremely
bad. I'm not really sure why BYU plays this way against utah, I
was not impressed by utah at all, but for some reason it is in the BYU teams
head and untill Bronco coms down off of his high horse and admits his approach
to this game is terrible we are going to continue to see results like this.
Aside from BYU's offense being afraid of Utah's defense two years
straight (they should be), BYU's corners giving Utah's receivers 10
free yards on every down made Jon Hayes look like a first round draft pick. Van
Noy is the only bright spot for the men in blue. BYU should be
grateful that Utah is kind enough to give them a bye for the next couple of
years. Very ugly Bronco.
BYU football: great people but the team is not very good.
News for both Utah and BYUBoth of you are not very good and the best
quarterback is in Logan.Watch as the season unfolds the win/loss
record.Nelson goes two more games and gets replaced.#72 on
Utah's return team, runs down field a little more cautiously from now on.
@ BleedCougarBlueReally? If you want to go that direction; What
about Pass interference on Hoffman's TD reception... Michael Irvin
couldn't have done any better.@ mtseatssAgree. K
Whit keeps channeling his inner Tony Sporano and/or Dave Wannstedt. As a
Dolphins fan, that worries me... alot!
@ Bleed cougar blueYour statement is ridiculous. Star dominated your
center and was in the backfield all game. Why all of the sudden are snaps going
askew? It's not a coincidence.
Early Merry Christmas UtahYou're Welcome--BYU
No excuses for the loss. If BYU can't win a game the officials pretty much
gift wrapped, they do not deserve a win. Utah had 4 starters out, including its
starting RB and both starting safeties. And still found a way to get it done.
Seriously, I am impressed. I give Utah all the credit for getting the win.That being said,Riley Nelson is TERRIBLE. Passes were wobbly and
inaccurate, horrible decisions. He was mentally and physically dominated by the
Utah defense, and you could see it in his face. There is no excuse for 8 false
start penalties, and a blotched snap returned for 6. The O-line is weak. We
have some seriously talented skill position players, but no QB to get the ball
there, and No line to make holes. The offensive play-calling is painful to
watch, and Bronco's emotionless blank stare on the sideline tells it all.
It's pathetic really. It is becoming glaringly obvious, BYU has reached
it's ceiling under Bronco.
Nelson has cemented his legacy ay BYU. He will never be listed among the greats.
Nothing he does this year will redeem him from losing his senior year to Utah.
Bring on the freshman!
Great teams force Errors. Cant spin it any other way.We own you
Band of Little Brothers
Both teams are awful. Never have I been so disappointed in a win. Utah was
clearly more athletic and yet Whittingham's "play to keep from
losing" offensive mentality kept BYU in the game. Ridiculous. His offensive
play calling leaving Utah with second and nine got old fast. Then there was
fourth and twelve with seconds left - are you kidding me? Utah is in for a very
long season after it dives into PAC12 play against teams that match its
athleticism. As for BYU, with multiple turn overs that they "luckily"
recovered, they are simply not that impressive. The heavens did everything in
its power to hand them that game and they still couldn't win.
I like the excuses. Riley's back hurt. we were sloppy, etc. etc. The best
one I've heard is Bronco told the kicker to miss because they didn't
want to play on Sunday. Tired of hearing BYU beat themselves. It's not how
many mistakes you make, it's how you bounce back from your mistakes. Every
team makes mistakes every game. BYU got beat pure and simple.
Utah State missed a last second FG against Wisconsin. Aggies could be 3-0 and
ranked. Too bad.
Rivalry stats. Outside of 1984 ya'll, the last 20 years has seen Utah go
13-7 vs. BYU. The Cougars still have 1984, but that is not their best team in my
opinion. I will take the 1996 Cougars Cotton Bowl year. Yes Utah has two BCS
bowl wins, but the parameters in 1996 had the Cotton Bowl like a BCS game. It
wasn't the big payout, and it was the bowl coalition then. BYU was left
out, but got the next best thing in the Cotton Bowl which almost became a BCS
bowl later on. 1996 was a great season.Still Utah has the edge the
last 20 years, the edge (record wise) overall as well.
Don't know if Utah "won" so much as BYU gave the game away.Take away BYU's mistake of the bad snap/fumble/Utah recovery/TD and
BYU wins.Not only that but if the ball were 6" to the right and
the game goes into OT my money was on BYU to win because by that point in the
game, momentum was rolling in BYU's favor.Too bad the Utes are
too "afraid" to play us for the next 2 years....GO
This is where the excuses will start to flow, and I will say it again BYU cannot
Another great game. Lets not ruin it by speaking ill of each other. I offer my hand and congratulate the Utes on a great win. Until next year I
wish you good luck.This was one for the ages.