If you support companies having the freedom to make their own choices, and not
being forced into policies with which they don't agree, please stand up and
be heard! Be the vocal majority!!Join us on Facebook!!
If you support companies having the freedom to make their own choices, and not
being forced into policies with which they don't agree, please stand up and
be heard! Be the vocal majority!!
Repeal and replace with simple common sense. Employers pay money to employees
for their work. Employees do whatever they want with their money. Health insurance is not health care. Health care is not health insurance.
Health insurance should be like car insurance, fire insurance, flood insurance,
life insurance (the list goes on and on). It pays for catastrophe. You buy
insurance to be insured against a disaster. It shouldn't pay for anything
else. Doctor visits should be cash, check or credit card unless it
is something you purchased your insurance for like cancer, broken bone,
Alzheimer, blindness, etc. The more things you put on your insurance list, the
more your premiums.Why would the government ever think they needed
to be involved?
This has nothing to do with them being forced to provide health insurance. They
don't have to provide health insurance at all if they don't want to.
What they can't do, is provide health insurance, but pick and choose that
it covers things they like, or dislike. Do you really want companies to be able
to make your health care choices for you?
I once liked Hobby Lobby.Not anymore.
@Kalindra"So - the owner of Hobby Lobby thinks he should get to
dictate to his employees how they live their lives because if they use
medication of which he disapproves, it is a violation of his religious
principles?"You completely totally entirely miss the pointYou can live your life, buy whatever pills you want or get whatever
supplemental insurance you want: However; the government does not have the
right to force people to pay for your pills against their own religious
convictions - check the First Amendment non-interference with religion clause.
You are NOT the victim here (you are the perpetrator)
I am surprised at some people's total disregard for the Constitution
anymore. If a Jehovah's Witness doesn't want to pay for someone
else's blood transfusion, because they feel it is against their religion,
they should NOT be forced by the federal or state government to do so.
To Tekakaromatagi 6:49 a.m. Sept. 14, 2012Dammam, Saudi Arabia@silo:You bring up the issue of the Jehovah's witnesses. That
is a good question. I wonder how that would be solved? The next time that I talk
with Jehovah's Witnesses I might discuss it with them.------------------I have. Our next door neighbors are
Jehovah's Witnesses. They don't mind paying for the insurance,
recognizing that its provisions are for the good of all; they just choose not to
use that feature of it.
@silo:You bring up the issue of the Jehovah's witnesses. That
is a good question. I wonder how that would be solved? The next time that I
talk with Jehovah's Witnesses I might discuss it with them.The
bigger issue is that when the government decides to extending more rights to us,
in this case, a right to health care from our employers, some of the new rights
start impeding on the old rights like the right of freedom of religion. It
becomes a big mess.Instead of helping, it is hurting.
Amen. You go Hobby Lobby. We will support you.
@ Sparky: No - you are missing the point. Businesses offer health insurance to
their employees as part of the compensation package - instead of paying the
employee a higher wage, businesses offer insurance - this provides several
benefits to the employer: they have a healthier workforce, it is a very
desirable benefit so employees are willing to work for substantially less than
if the benefit were not offered and employees had to buy insurance on their own,
it saves the employer on the taxes he has to pay, and, since it is a
"benefit" and not a wage, it can be removed fairly easily in comparison
to the alternative of lowering employee wages.Even with it being a
benefit offered by the employer, the employee still pays part of the cost
directly out of his or her paycheck.The employer is not providing
the insurance to the employee out of the goodness of his heart. The employer is
not providing anything to the employee that the employee is not earning.
Insurance is part of the employee's benefit package - and the employer
should not get to use the employee's paycheck to force his religious
beliefs on the employee.
Joanne's and Michael's will see even more of my money now. Employers
need to get on with business and stop staying up all night worrying that their
employees might have sex.
With all the complaints of the government mandating what will and will not be
covered, one point seems to be left out: Insurance companies are far more
invasive and restrictive in coverage than the ACA. I had a plan that would not
cover certain prescriptions, and would also not cover heart or lung transplants.
That was in 1998! Insurance companies are in business to make PROFIT, not to
help people.I don't see what the big deal is with Hobby
Lobby's position. They do not want to cover abortion, but they do cover
contraceptives. All rights come with responsibilities. If I own a gun, I have
a responsibility to my fellow citizens to use it safely. We all have rights,
but we also have to live up to the responsibilities that come with them.Lastly, I find the argument to "catch up with the times"
hilarious! Society keeps changing, but God does not change. We live in a
society that will continue to be at odds with religious principles for this very
reason. That is exactly why the 1st ammendment and it's religious
protections must be defended and preserved.
TekakaromatagiJehovah's Witness followers don't believe in
blood transfusions. Should a company owned by a Jehovah's Witness with
employees of other beliefs be able to tell those employees that their medical
coverage won't cover blood transfusions?Same concept applies
NeilT said: "This contraceptive issue is a just a diversion from the real
issue. If a woman is a victim of rape or incest and can take a pill within 24 to
48 hours and prevent an unwanted pregnancy I am all for it. That does not mean I
support abortion."Some people in this country still believe in
the freedom of religion and consider that a REAL issue. It doesn't matter
if a woman was raped or just wasn't careful while messing around, the
government has NO RIGHT to require her employer, by force, to provide for her
abortion, whether it's a morning after pill or a full on late term
abortion, if that violates the employers freedom of religion! It's like the
Constitution doesn't even matter anymore. The Obama Administration and
their supporters ought be totally ashamed of themselves!
If Hobby Lobby or any other company doesn't provide the type of coverage
you want, such as the morning after pill, then those employees are free to look
for work elsewhere. That is the free market system in action. The government
has no right to force any company to private a specific level of health
Bill McGee: "Not every 14-year-old girl makes consistently good decisions,
and telling her that she has to just live with a terrible mistake is
inhumane."What is inhumane about living with our mistakes? That
is life. We learn and grow from the mistakes we make. That 14 year old girl
needs better parenting if she doesn't understand the consequences of having
sex. And it's not the responsibility of the parents employers to pay for
that 14 year old's mistake either.I will continue to support
Hobby Lobby. This administration only wants to turn us into a welfare state /
Kalindra:"The owner of Hobby Lobby thinks he should get to dictate to
his employees how they live their lives because if they use medication of which
he disapproves, it is a violation of his religious principles?"Actually, no. That is not the issue. Health insurance is a way to spread the
risk evenly. Hobby Lobby's owner puts money into a pot and if an employee
gets cancer, needs stiches, etc. The money is available to pay the
employee’s medical costs. The government is telling the owner of Hobby
Lobby that now he must pay for his employees’ health insurance which will
increase his cost of doing business. Furthermore, the government is also
dictating to him that he has to pay for a morning after pill. It is probably
his religious belief that life begins at conception, so he objects to this on
religious grounds.He is not telling his employees how to live their
lives. He is objecting that he has to pay for it. They can do whatever they
want as so should he.I hope this helps.
The problem is many businesses don't want to provide health insurance.
They are comfortable with compensating CEOs 400 times more than rank and file
workers but not with providing benefits like health insurance. I would be
terrified if I were uninsured. We need to fundamentaly reform health care in
this country. It is to expensive and it is to difficult to obtain private
insurance. This contraceptive issue is a just a diversion from the real issue.
If a woman is a victim of rape or incest and can take a pill within 24 to 48
hours and prevent an unwanted pregnancy I am all for it. That does not mean I
support abortion. I don't consider that an abortion.
Kalindra,You are missing a huge point here. Hobby Lobby does not
OWN its employees. They are a private company and frankly have the right to
"demand" all sorts of things of their employees. No one is holding a
gun to the heads of the employees and forcing them to work for Hobby Lobby! No
one! If they do not like how Hobby Lobby runs their business they are FREE TO
LOOK ELSEWHERE for their employment or to start their own business. Hobby Lobby
is not forcing them to do anything because the term "force" implies that
they have no choice but to continue to work for Hobby Lobby whether they want to
or not. Well, that's called SLAVERY and frankly, its the US government
that is engaging in behavior that is much more closely tied to slave ownership
than Hobby Lobby. The Government is acting like they can DICTATE to private
companies how they should run their business and they are backing this up with
increadibly heavy fines and threats or litigation etc. A private
business has the right to run things as they see fit. They may go out of
business but they have that right!
I am not a crafter, and have been an infrequent shopper at Hobby Lobby. However,
I'm thinking I'd better change my ways and show support for a company
that takes this stand. Thank you leaders of Hobby Lobby. I may not be into
making clever crafts, but I like your reasoning.
The AMAZING thing to me about all of this is the fact that we, as a people, have
agreed to allow the Federal Government to MANDATE that a PRIVATE business offer
health insurance AT ALL!!! I certainly agree that no PRIVATE company should be
forced to compromise their religious or any other sort of convictions just
because the government says that they have to. Worse than that however is that
the government is forcing companies to pay for health insurance for their
employees!!!Is it a good idea for companies to offer health
insurance? Sure, as long as they can afford it. If they don't they risk
losing good employees to their competitors or to other businesses.
NEVERTHELESS, it is their right to run their business the way they like in this
regard. If they fail then they fail. If an employee does not like the fact
that their employer does not offer health insurance then they have the right to
go look for a different job!!! In no way should we EVER have let
this happen!!! It's mind-boggling that we've let the government have
this sort of power!
Right Vaughan J.... elect more Republicans. ALEC needs more gophers.As for me, I'm going to exercise the rights I defended for 13 years in
the Military. The right to boycott Hobby Lobby. I don't spend a lot at
their store in Layton but not I won't be spending anything there anymore.
OBAMA thinks that the government should provide the health care to all
individuals. This is accomplished by forcing use to buy insurance, or have
company provided insurance. The companies are required to provided government
mandated insurance. Hey that is the same as putting a TAX on every company that
has employees. If they cannot recuperate the costs in increased product costs,
READ AS TAXES FOR HEALTH CARE, THEN they will have to reduce staff to reduce
operating costs.The added taxes to medical suppliers will also be
passed on to the consumer, where does anyone think that it is the companies that
actually pay the taxes. They simply act as a tax collector for the government,
siphoning off our hard to get $$$$.REPEAL OBAMA CARE; ELECT
So - the owner of Hobby Lobby thinks he should get to dictate to his employees
how they live their lives because if they use medication of which he
disapproves, it is a violation of his religious principles?And
people are okay with this?Should the owner of a restaurant that
serves alcohol be able to require all her employees to drink a glass of wine
every night because it has proven health benefits?Should the owner
of a health food store be able to prohibit his employees from eating meat?Should an employer get to determine how many children you have or how
often you and your spouse are intimate? Because allowing your employer to
determine your access to birth control gives him exactly that ability.
You can't reason with a liberal intent on being taken care of from cradle
to grave. It's good to see corporations standing up to the ACA's
Come the revolution...you will do as you are told.I want America back.
Hobby Lobby or any company should know that they are not providing any
contraceptives to their employees. They are providing health insurance as a
cost effective perk to their employees who are making their own choices based on
medical need. And by cost effective, I mean they get a tax break because it is
not taxed as payroll.Employers do not have a first amendment right
to restrict the medical decisions of their employees.
Bill McGee @ 4:19 p.m.: "Just because Hobby Lobby is run by someone who is
opposed to the morning after pill doesn't mean he gets to tell his
employees how they can live their lives."Huh? Where did you read
that David Green is trying to tell his employees how they can live their lives?
I can refuse to buy booze or crack cocaine for someone on moral
grounds, but I'm not dictating their lifestyle or personal habits.
To: Bill McGee: Thank you for your question. The fines costing Hobby
Lobby funds takes away jobs. The daily fine of 1.3 million dollars. Where do you
think the funds will come from? If Hobby Lobby has to pay 26 million in
additional funds: Where do you think the 26 million would come from? Job
contraction. It is simple enough to figure. Hobby Lobby does not get funds from
the government to throw away on failed energy stimulus so any funds they need to
pay from something come from profits, or are pulled from benefits, existing jobs
or reinvestment funds to open more stores. Hobby Hobby is opening new locations
every month. Maybe not if reinvestment capital becomes government money.As my parents said " MONEY does NOT grow on trees!"I
am also aware of other businesses being attacked by the administration through
Law Suits, Excessive Regulations, Obamacare, no Updated Tax Policy!
--Get off your high horse, and become current with the times.I think
that was a popular saying in Sodom and Gomorrah. ;)
I agree with Hobby Lobby, the Govt. should not have the power to force people to
provide things that are contrary to the business owners personal
morals/ethics.Business provided health insurance needs to be
changed. Someone goes into business to provide a product or service and to make
money. Along the way the business becomes saddles with the responsibility to
provide health insurance to its employees. This model first started just after
WW2 as an incentive to attract employees. Then health insurance was cheap. Now
health insurance probably accounts for at least 10 - 15% of the cost of the
employee if not more. Insurance companies no doubt like the current
arrangement. To save money businesses try to set up health programs and then
some employees gripe that the business is meddling where they have no right. I say give the money that is currently paid for insurance to the
employees so they can purchase their own insurance. If they want morning after
pill insurance they can buy it themselves. Get business out of this employee
healthcare equation and we might see a lot more people starting businesses.
Might even see the cost of health insurance decrease.
Nice, I just found a new place to shop.
Hutterite,sorry you have such little regard for the 1st amendment.
In what way will compliance with this rule cost Hobby Lobby 850 jobs? Just
because Hobby Lobby is run by someone who is opposed to the morning after pill
doesn't mean he gets to tell his employees how they can live their lives.
This is a frivolous, politically motivated, election year lawsuit that has no
chance as the one filed by the Catholic church was already dismissed.It is easy to argue that if someone doesn't want to get pregnant that
they not have sex. Not every 14-year-old girl makes consistently good decisions,
and telling her that she has to just live with a terrible mistake is inhumane.
And if we start legislating morality, then what do you do when Muslims want
Shari'ah Law or your local coven wants equal time to pray in school. This
is a slippery slope you do not want to start down.BTW, the morning
after pill is NOT an abortion pill. It is simply the equivalent amount of
estrogen found in about three birth control pills, and prevents a fertilized egg
from implanting - which already happens in the majority of cases naturally
Hutterit, talk about cherry picking. You suggest Hobby Lobby be responsible for
an unwanted pregnancy? Forget that they are providing coverage for
maturnity?Also, this "unwanted" stuff really cranks my brain.If you don't want to get pregnant then don't have sex, or use a
contraseptive which there coverage does pay for. Otherwise stop trying to make
everyone responsible for your actions.And if you can call a morning
after pill "pretty innocuous" then you really just don't see the
bigger picture.I got an unwanted 10 lbs of fat over the summer until
I quit eating so much and burned it off.
Hobby Lobby CEO and founder David Green credits God's grace and provision
with Hobby Lobby's success, and said the company cannot abandon its
religious standards in order to comply with the mandate.—Get
off your high horse, and become current with the times.
"The personal rights the health care law is supposedly infringing upon
disappear"No: they don'tYour rights stop where
mine begin: The fact that you don't understand that is exactly why I
question the hard left even more than I do the hard right. Intolerance in the name of feminism, civil rights or gay rights is NO better
than hate in the name of God, motherhood or patriotism; it is merely more
fashionable and therefore more dangerous
Not mentioned here is that compliance with this rule could cost Hobby Lobby 850
full time jobs. Now multiply that by all the other companies the Obama
administration is attacking! This Administration has a endless dislike for
businesses and has and is going after Hobby Lobby, Boeing, all the Hospitals,
Gibson Guitar ect. Where does it end? where will it end? How bad
does it have to get until We The People stand against this Failed President?The failures are manifest daily!
The personal rights the health care law is supposedly infringing upon disappear
when someone needs health care and can't afford it. I'm getting tired
of this and that outfit wanting to cherry pick what they want to cover. The
morning after pill is pretty innocuous; if you don't want to cover that
then you should have to cover the cost of an unwanted pregnancy to 21 years old.
Good for Hobby LobbyHow do feminist fundamentalists credibly claim
to be pro-choice when they work to deny anyone the right to not participate in
their choice? (the HHS mandate goes much further than getting others to pay for
birth-control, it requires others pay for sterilizations and abortion-inducing
drugs, etc)That is faux-choice. I read a great
headline: "If Muslims Rioted Over the HHS Mandate, Obama Would
Go Hobby Lobby! No matter how noble and honorable the intentions may be, this
health care law is overreaching in its demands and is infringing on personal