Comments about ‘In our opinion: Health care solutions’

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Published: Wednesday, Sept. 12 2012 12:00 a.m. MDT

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Kim
Cedar Park, Texas

Excellent editorial. The AHCA has become one of those political issues that eclipses the ability of many to discuss rationally. The right wing has made repeal of the AHCA a litmus test for republicans. Of course there are flaws in the AHCA, but anyone who responsibly looks at this issue must acknowlege that we cannot go back to where we were before it was adopted. Why can't we focus on making the law workable without taking the extreme position of repeal and doing nothing?

  • 4:36 a.m. Sept. 12, 2012
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pragmatistferlife
salt lake city, utah

And so your solution is.....?

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

Only one problem DMN Editoial staff. If the AHC act is repealed, Romney nor anyone else will be able to enact legislation to put back the so called "good" parts you mention. The health insurance loby will see to that. Those good things cut into their profits you see. Better to not to repeal but ammend it as seems appropriate over time.

Esquire
Springville, UT

Romney is confused, the Republicans are controlled by the right wing and can do nothing positive, and without any justification, you rip on ACA with no alternative nor answers. The health care system is a mess, and all of you on the right (including the DesNews) do nothing, offer nothing, and obstruct any efforts to seriously address it. Hatch was positioned to make the bill an historic achievement, but he put politics first. This editorial is kind of offensive in a way, complaining on the heels of Romney's confusion and total failure of leadership, and offering nothing whatsoever. The Democrats led on this while the Republicans deliberately sat on the sidelines and played games. The bill could have been better, but you fought it. The result for me is complete support for a British style system and disdain for the GOP.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

We dont want a solution. We want to bash the other guys plan. Doesn't matter if its a good plan or a bad plan. Doesn't matter if it looks like our plan and incorporates things we used to like.

It is about a party win. If the solution is not ours, we are against it.

Plain and simple.

How can we expect our country to thrive when 1/2 of our leaders want the other half to fail.

Can you imagine a corporation run that way? Would you buy their stock?

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Health care is not the problem. Government is the problem. Government capped wages, so businessmen offered "benefits", including health care. People no longer had to pay doctors directly so there was no cost/value associated with health care. Hospitals where mandated to treat everyone, regardless of ability to pay, so there was no reason to be honest and pay for services received.

Take government out of health care. Let businesses pay employees what those employees are worth without giving "benefits". Let everyone pay for normal, ordinary doctor visits and limit health insurance to major medical. Require doctors and hospitals to charge the same fee for the same procedure, i.e., no special price for cash or for insurance. Let those who refuse to be responsible to pay for medical care be denied service.

Government caused the problem. Now people see no reason to pay their doctors - as long as government can tax some "rich guy" to pay for it.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

The extremists are in charge of the Republican Party, and their motto is "compromise is a dirty word" and "party purity" before country.

I dont know how a president elected by either party is going to be able to govern with this kind of extremism in congress.

On the other hand:
Regulations in ACA set up a program to review insurance rate increases and instituted an 80/20 rule, requiring insurance companies to spend no more than 20 percent of consumer premiums on profits and administrative costs. And since September 2011, insurance providers have had justify premium rate increase of more than 10 percent for individual and small group markets. Consumers have saved an estimated $1 billion on their insurance premiums as a result of rate review, and 13 million Americans received $1.1 billion in rebates last year from the 80/20 provision.

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

Mike Richards.. what do you do with the inocents like small children who have serious problems and cannot get any insurance because coverage is denied because their condition is prexisting, or because the cost of the insurance is way beyond the means of the parents. Let them die?

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"Government is the problem. Government capped wages, so businessmen offered "benefits", including health care."

If they did, the CEO's managed to slip by.

Really? When did that happen? Can you provide specifics? What year? What legislation?

I totally missed that part. C'mon Mike. You cant just throw out something like that without some attempt to substantiate it.

And when you said, " Hospitals where mandated to treat everyone, regardless of ability to pay"

You are correct. That legislation was called EMTALA. Signed in 1986 by Ronald Reagan.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

Re:MikeRichards
"Let those who refuse to be responsible to pay for medical care be denied service."
At least you're honest.

The new Republican healthcare plan: pay or die?
Or, put another way, Social Darwinism.

Social Darwinism offered a moral justification for the wild inequities and social cruelties of the late nineteenth century. It allowed John D. Rockefeller, for example, to claim the fortune he accumulated through his giant Standard Oil Trust was “merely a survival of the fittest.” It was, he insisted “the working out of a law of nature and of God.”

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

The Republican Party used to be a party of ideas; now they only care about power as evidenced by the fact that they are against anything the other side is for… and have been since weeks BEFORE Obama even took office. This is nutty on a couple levels – one, it is logically impossible that one side (the Dems in this case) can be 100% wrong… on everything… all the time (otherwise total opposition makes no sense). And 2nd, this is obvious nuttiness because a lot of the stuff that is now “wrong” used to be Right (pun intended).

Politically speaking, the ACA is to the right of what Nixon tried to pass (and Ted Kennedy killed because it was too right-wing), and is far to the right of what Dems have traditionally favored – a single payer system. Yet somehow, the wing-nuts that are today’s Republican Party have convinced themselves that it is “the most socialist affront to freedom in history.” This country is ripe for a 3rd party and the sooner we get rid the current Hatfield & McCoy craziness, the better.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Truthseeker,

In your world, where do you draw the line at forcing someone to do what YOU think he should? You have every right to pay for insurance for anyone that YOU want. You have every right to pay the doctor bills for anyone YOU want. What you don't have is the right to force me or anyone else to pay those bills.

Forced "charity" is opposite from charity. God does not force us to be good, but you seem to think that using force is the best way.

Open your wallet and pay those bills for as many as you can. Enlist your friends and neighbors in YOUR cause.

Good people do good things without compulsion. God encourages but Satan compels. God allows us to experience the "law of the harvest", but Satan tells us that he will save us all, regardless of effort, regardless of intent.

Why has government chosen Satan's plan of force, of compulsion, and ignored God's plan of invitation?

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

RE: Mike Richards

Oh Puleeze! By your logic, taxes to pay for the Fire and Police departments are "works of the devil."

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Tyler,

Why don't you read the U.S. Constitution, the State Constitution and your City Charter before making comments?

The U.S. Constitution puts the people in charge and limits the duties of the Federal Government to those things that the people have listed in the Constitution. Obamacare, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, WIC, and most other social programs are not duties of the Federal Government and because of that, those "duties" must be left to the States or to the People.

The State Constitution of Utah and the city where I live do not list Obamacare as a enumerated duty assigned to it by the people of Utah or of the city, therefore, Obamacare or anything like it must be left to the people.

The people of the State and of the city have listed police and fire protection as enumerated duties that they were willing to pay for through taxes levied by the city and the State. Defense is a duty of the Federal Government that the people have authorized.

When you study the levels of government, you will see that few duties are authorized. Healthcare is not one of those duties.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

The best solution to health care is to put a system in place that provides...health care. Not insurance. Care. For everyone. It's not free. Neither is what we're doing now. But we can do better. And we can remove the choice people have to make between care and financial ruin.

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

RE: Mike Richards

Nice to see you rejoin the land of logic and reason. You make some excellent (albeit debatable) points on constitutional interpretation. Forgive the religious allusion, but you’ll win a lot more converts to your views by sticking to known reality, and refrain from bringing the intentions of God and Satan into the picture. And as a precaution, it might help to remember that as convinced as you are that you know full well the will of God, there are lots of suicide bombers and amateur pilots (the ones who skip the “how to land” lesson) who are just as convinced as you.

Truthseeker
SLO, CA

re:MikeRichards
It is only "forced" charity if you, using your God-given agency, choose to look at it that way. Your agency is not curtailed because you are required to pay taxes. As Dallin H. Oaks has explained on numerous occasions, everybody on earth has agency. It is a condition of life on earth. It cannot be taken away.

ACA requires everybody to be insured. The mandate was proposed by and conformed to Republican ideals--everybody has to be responsible. Now, of course there are some in society who don't have the means to do that and will need help. I know you are grateful for the kindness of neighbors, family etc. who helped out your loved one when you were unable to pay large medical bills. You were very lucky. Not everybody will be so lucky. Some people don't have family. Some people don't have friends/neighbors with a dime to spare. Would you still be advocating for the pay or die approach if your family member had been refused medical treatment because of inability to pay?

J Thompson
SPRINGVILLE, UT

re: Tyler,

You're just digging a deeper hole. You've instructed someone to be cautious about his belief in God, presumably because his belief and your belief don't agree. You also tried to "school" him in civics, but I believe that he "schooled" you.

Telling us that evil exists does not tell us WHY evil exists. Until you know WHY, you're trapped in an unreal world of your own making. You might as well have lived in some other time and some other place when the knowledge of God had been lost for a period.

What does this have to do with Obamacare? EVERYTHING. Obama believes that we are incapable of doing anything without being forced to do it. He really, really, really wants that 18% of the GDP that is spent on healthcare. He wants that money.

If he understood WHY there are always two choices in everything, he would have never foisted Obamacare on us.

To him, might makes right. He uses the power of government to force his philosophy on us. He doesn't care if his philosophy is wrong.

He broke every rule getting Obamacare passed - and he doesn't care.

Mike in Cedar City
Cedar City, Utah

Richards.. get off of the bogus constituional right wing talking points.
Are you legally trained? What are your sources for those broad contitutional notions you suggest? The issue of states rights was decided in 1865. You say that if its not listed in the Constituion the Federal Goverment can not do it. In that case, Hill Air Force Base must belong to the State of Utah because the Constitution does not implictly provide for an Air Force.

Mike Richards
South Jordan, Utah

Truthseeker,

The operative word is "force" not "healthcare".

Sharia Law "forces" people to live their lives as those who hold the power decide. No one has a choice. How do you feel about Sharia Law? It is based on the same principle of "force" as Obamacare.

Ability to pay has nothing to do with this issue. You may decide that it's your business to make it part of this discussion but that doesn't change the fact that it is not part of this discussion. The government WANTS us to think that it is part of the discussion. They want to "shame" us into paying 18% of our income into their program so that they can spend it on their "pork projects" and then issue I.O.U.s, just like they have done with Social Security and Medicare.

The government has proven that it cannot manage money, yet it is willing to FORCE you to buy into a program that has no chance of succeeding.

----

My views are not based on my personal needs. The bill for my daughter's cancer would have been paid - in full - no matter how long it took.

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