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Howell totes scriptures around with him at DNC

Published: Wednesday, Sept. 5 2012 11:33 p.m. MDT

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Counter Intelligence
Salt Lake City, UT

It is the party's responsibility to attract voters; not vice versa.
They work for me - not me for them.

If there is a belief that one cannot be a Democrat and a good Mormon at the same time; it is the Democratic party's problem to fix it, not the LDS church's. If there are things in the platform that drive Mormons into the arms of Republican; it is the Democratic parties fault (and the Republicans to favor to embrace). Scott Howell should be commended for taking on that challenge in his role as POLITICAL FIGURE.

After all; the exact reverses tended to be true prior to world war two.

OneAmerican
Idaho Falls, ID

The difference between King Benjamin's type of charity and and democrat "charity" is that King Benjamin said he had worked to support himself rather than to tax people to support him (implying to do otherwise would be inappropriate). He also did not advocate taking forcibly through taxation from one group of people to care for other people. To justify democrat tax the rich to reward those who refuse to work or cannot work by citing King Benjamin is to take King Benjamin extremely out of context. Charity can only come voluntarily from a giving heart, not through forced servitude implemented by the government. Democrats want to tax the tar out of people to provide "entitlements" which is a bad deal for both the "giver" and the receiver. Democrats support (Obama's idea) of reducing or eliminating tax deductions for charitable giving. The Book of Mormon talks of the "heavy burden" of a 50% "tax"; today, many Americans pay more than 50% of their income in taxes. Forced charity is not charity, it is involuntary servitude. It only serves to breed contempt in the hearts of the taxed and an entitlement attitude in the recipient. (i.e. OWS)

Wonder
Provo, UT

@Mojules -- It tells me that some Democrats wanted to take the language out of the platform, but that it ended up going back in. That's all it tells me. Are you trying to say that every single Republican in the entire country agrees with every single principle of the gospel? Of course not. So don't expect the same thing from the Democrats.

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

Dear Wildcat: Your statement is absurd. Tea Party members have no right to cast a vote based on abortion? Where would you get something like that? I'd also like to know where you got the information that most Tea Party members agree with Akin. What study or poll are you quoting? I don't think you have ANYTHING to base that on.

The Tea Party, as an organization (or organizations--there are many) is about fiscal and constitutional issues. It is NOT about social issues. These groups DO NOT address social issues in any form. The members of these groups have their own personal views about a lot of social issues and will take these into account when casting their own personal votes. However, The Tea Party, as an organization, is solely about fiscal and constitutional issues.

These are just the facts and not based on ANY speculation whatsoever.

Cats
Somewhere in Time, UT

Dear One American: You are right. The Book of Mormons defines 50% taxation as "bondage!"

Dave D
Pocatello, ID

Elder Marlin K. Jensen of the Seventy was sent by the Church to do an interview with the Salt Lake Tribune in 1998 to dispel the myth that one cannot be a good member of the Church and a democrat. Here is what a Church leader said:

"We would probably hope that they wouldn't abandon a party necessarily because it has a philosophy or two that may not square with Mormonism. Because, as I say, [parties] in their philosophies ebb and flow," Jensen said.

"You know, the Republicans came very close last time to bringing a pro-abortion plank into their platform. That was maybe the biggest battle of their [1996 national] convention," he said. "Which shows that if you're a pure ideologue, eventually you're going to have trouble in either party."

"Everyone who is a good Latter-day Saint is going to have to pick and choose a little bit regardless of the party that they're in and that may be required a lot more in the future than it has been in the past. But I think there's room for that and the gospel leaves us lots of latitude."

Wonder
Provo, UT

@ Cats -- Because I've heard some Tea Party members say that they don't believe in abortion for any reason, including rape or incest, I think it's clear that no person can claim they are a Tea Party member unless they agree with that opinion 100%. (Just like you think because I'm a Democrat I have to agree with everything you've ever heard any Democrat say.)

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

@JWB

What I find interesting is that Romney is running from his parties platform claiming that its stance on abortion and other issues do not reflect his own views. For some reason he did not have the leadership skills to get his platform to reflect the views of their presidential candidate but when their was a problem with the democratic platform Obama was able to step in and get them to change it. Do we really want Romney in office trying to bring parties together when he cannot even bring his own party together to support him?

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

Let's read the LDS policy and compare platforms;

The Church allows for possible exceptions for its MEMBERS when:
- Pregnancy results from rape or incest, or
- A physician determines that the life or health of the mother is in serious jeopardy, or
- A physician determines that the fetus has severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive.
- ...should be considered only after consulting with local church leaders.

--------

The Democratic platform states: "Abortion is an intensely personal decision between a woman, her family, her doctor and her clergy; there is no place for politicians or government to get in the way."

The Republican platform seeks passage of a constitutional amendment that would extend legal rights to the unborn, essentially banning ALL abortions with NO exceptions
-- even in the cases of Rape, Incest, Life and Health of the Woman, and viability of the fetus.
[running diametrically opposed to LDS policy].

Conclusion:
The Democratic platform is more in harmony with LDS policy than the extremist GOP platform.

and FYI -
The LDS Church has not favored or opposed legislative proposals ...concerning abortion [i.e., is politically neutral].

JP71
Ogden, UT

@Dave D

If you were looking for a club to join and one club said we do these things but we also support abortion, we are pro-homosexuality, we don’t support Israel, and we don’t want anything to do with God. Then you went to another club and they said we do these things and we are against abortion, we believe that a family with a father and mother is important, we support Israel, and we believe that God is an important part of what we do. As member of the LDS Church you would think this would be a no brainer which club you would join.

When talking about picking through issue in a political party we are not talking about fiscal spending or about the size of government. We are talking about issues that are at the very core of LDS doctrine and that the LDS Church believes will bring down society. See The Family: A Proclamation to the World.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

A couple more points and my 4 comments are up –

And just recently and locally
The LDS church has been soft on illegal immigration and has publically endorsed gay rights in housing (which the GOP defiantly shotdown).

Who’s being extreme?
Who’s rejecting the Prophets and Apostles?
Who’s following the brethren?
Who's more in harmony?

Part of the great Pride cycle is not being able to admit when you are wrong....

Wildcat
O-town, UT

@OneAmerican,

50%? HA! From the tax record Mitt released, we know he paid 14% and some big corporations like GE paid nothing and some Oil Industries we actually gave them tax dollars. Whereas working people pay a higher percentage of taxes. Yeah, that's what King Benjamin wanted--LOL! He served his people. Our government serves its people--or should--tax subsidies to Big Oil don't serve me, but helping the least among us or helping the hands that hang down is not a bad thing--even if it's done through taxes to promote the General Welfare (preamble to the Constitution).

Mark 12:41-44 Giving out of abundance is good, but those who give which takes away from their necessities give more according to the Savior. Remember the rich man who could not follow the Savior because he valued his wealth more than following the Savior and helping his fellow man? That is where many people are today.

They are called entitlements because we pay into them every paycheck: Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicaid, Medicare--absolutely right I am entitled to it. Don't let the GOP steal it and give it to Wall Street.

Still Blue after all these years
Kaysville, UT

A Mormon person can live the Church's teachings and be an independent or a Republican, but cannot be a democrat and subscribe to the democrat party values. Secularism, abortion, handouts for nothing, restrictions on freedom of religion are just a few. We hold the constitution sacred - too many democrats including Obama and Pelosi do not. Harry Reid leads the Democrat party in the Senate and he stood on the Senate floor and called Mitt Romney a liar - hardly within the values of our Church. The democrat party and Mormonism are currently not compatible.

sashabill
Morgan Hill, CA

The conservative or Republican "groupthink" which I have seen among Mormons is not any worse than the liberal Democratic groupthink which I encountered some years earlier among Unitarians.

Dave D
Pocatello, ID

@JP71,
I am simply quoting the actual stance of the Church on the matter. When I see people like Elder Marlin K. Jensen, or Elder Larry Echo Hawk, I wonder how anyone can doubt that there are indeed faithful Mormons with politically liberal views. You can find all the reasons you would like to not include Mormon democrats as "True" Mormons, but we are a global church, and are collectively far more liberal than you might think. I hope that you can be more inclusive of those who do not agree with you politically. After all, we are all brothers and sisters.

LDS Liberal
Farmington, UT

JP71
Ogden, UT

There are no members of the 1st Presidency and the 12 that are Democrats.
9:13 a.m. Sept. 6, 2012

============

And HOW do you know that?

I want to call your bluff.
I think you are just making things up now.

To start wioth,
I know of one member of the LDS 1st presidency who not only NOT a Republican
[as you have assumed and imply],
He's not even American,
in fact - he is a citizen of Germany [a Socialist nation]
and is my favorite of ALL the current General Authorities.

And I've got more news for you,
One of them was President of the Utah Democratic Party, and yet another was - gasp! - Canadian!

In fact, currently there are dozens of GAs and millions of other GOOD card-carrying Latter-Day Saints from Socialist, Marxist and Communist countries, i.e. Japan, England, Australia, France, Italy, Hong Kong, El Salvador, Russia, ect. to name just a few.

I grow ever so tired of this false stereotype that All Mormons are from Utah, American, and therfore must be Repubican!

No wonder the Church has had to spend $ Millions on those "I'm a Mormon" spots!

HaHaHaHa
Othello, WA

From another DN headline today, referencing the DNC convention: "Democrats Flummoxed over God, Jerusalem verbiage in party platform". This sounds like a party thats just full of Mormon moments!

SG in SLC
Salt Lake City, UT

Well said, Dave D & LDS Liberal.

President James E. Faust was also a Democrat, and in fact was a campaign chairman for (Democratic) Senator Frank Moss, and was also a Utah Democratic Party chairman prior to becoming a General Authority.

Elder Jensen stressed in the interview that it would be very healthy for the Church if the common misconception that one cannot be a good Mormon and a Democrat could be obliterated. Elder Jensen also said, "There is a feeling that even nationally as a church, it's not in our best interest to be known as a one-party church."

President Faust also emphasized this when he said, "It is in the interest of the Church to have a two-party system . . . . Both locally and nationally, the interest of the Church and its members are served when we have two good men or women running on each ticket, and then no matter who is elected, we win."

SLMG
Murtoa Australia, Victoria

Aggielove

Cache county, USA

I truly believe Mormon dems, choose that party, just to be defiant.
Thats it, and that's all.

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, having been born in the church and a life long member of the Democratic Party I can assure anyone I did not become a Democrat out of defiance but by choice. I know many Mormon Democrat that are Democrats but not out of defiance, we all decided for ourselves. Defiant of who or what?
Regardless of what party I vote for that does not change my standing in the church, I still hold a current Temple Recommend.
Free Agency allows me to make choices and to keep my religion and politics seperate.

Bubbamike
Seattle, WA

Don't confuse your culture and your religion, they are two different things. Your culture may be narrow and constricted but your religion is wide and takes in many different kinds of people. Heavenly Father does not belong to any political party, he does not need to be in any platform, he loves all his children and wants you to do the same. One of the things I've noticed is that people have selective eyesight when reading the Scriptures otherwise how could they ignore Helaman 4:12 or Helaman 7:21 or 2Nephi 20:2? That's just a sampling but many read the Book of Mormon without seeing and understanding the words. Read his words and understand his desires and think about who you are voting for and why.

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